DEF and BMW free maintenance?

[tcfila]

Craig,

If I remember correctly, you purchased at Plaza but I don't remember who is servicing your X5. Would you mind telling me who is jacking you around so I don't use them?

Tim

[Craig]

Originally Posted by tcfila

Craig,

If I remember correctly, you purchased at Plaza but I don't remember who is servicing your X5. Would you mind telling me who is jacking you around so I don't use them?

Tim

Hi Tim, I did purchase it at Plaza. I've been taking it to Machens BMW in Columbia, MO. Ryan is the service manager and he's the one telling me BMW kicked back my ticket. I have some goodwill money coming to me from BMW and he might want to get his hands on part of it. That's not going to happen. Machens is my local dealer. I tried to purchase from them, but they were too high. This is my 4th BMW and I haven't been
able to purchase any of them locally.

I did contact John Rooche the service manager at Plaza and he told me, he thought it should be covered. I had crappy service at Plaza and it's not worth driving there 2 hours each way for crappy service.

Craig

[ard]

Originally Posted by Craig

I have some goodwill money coming to me from BMW and he might want to get his hands on part of it.

When you bring a car in for service, almost every state requires a written estimate- which cannot be exceeded without your approval. If you had the car serviced with a $0 estimate, they are stuck with $0- even if BMW 'kicks back the ticket'. They may say you owe them money, but there is no legal basis for their claim.

BMWNA is a different company, different legal entity, from the Dealership- two different corporations. It would be like one person owing you money, and a third party comes in and says "Craig owes me $50, pay be instead of Craig".

[Craig]

Originally Posted by ard

When you bring a car in for service, almost every state requires a written estimate- which cannot be exceeded without your approval. If you had the car serviced with a $0 estimate, they are stuck with $0- even if BMW 'kicks back the ticket'. They may say you owe them money, but there is no legal basis for their claim.

BMWNA is a different company, different legal entity, from the Dealership- two different corporations. It would be like one person owing you money, and a third party comes in and says "Craig owes me $50, pay be instead of Craig".

Trust me, I'm not going to pay them a dime...

Craig

[Penguin]

I wonder if any of these issues with DEF replenishment, light switch replacement, etc. is a dealer, vs. BMW NA, issue. Service and warranty claims are a bit like health insurance claims in that it often makes a difference how they are worded and coded.

And some dealers are sometimes creative when it comes to keeping their customers happy, e.g., when they replace the light switch due to a knob issue, they may file their claim as a defective light switch, rather than a cosmetic knob issue. My understanding is that most defective parts are not returned to BMW NA, but are kept for a period of time so that BMW NA can audit the warranty work, e.g., a dealer could claim the switch is defective, keep the customer happy, and take the risk a random audit of replaced parts will not catch them.

Now, I do not know for sure that BMW takes this approach; however, when I worked for an auto company years ago, that was the approach they took, since sending every defective part back for inspection was seen as a waste of money, and random auditing of warranty work was seen as more cost-effective to keep the dealers honest.

[ard]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I wonder if any of these issues with DEF replenishment, light switch replacement, etc. is a dealer, vs. BMW NA, issue. Service and warranty claims are a bit like health insurance claims in that it often makes a difference how they are worded and coded.

And some dealers are sometimes creative when it comes to keeping their customers happy, e.g., when they replace the light switch due to a knob issue, they may file their claim as a defective light switch, rather than a cosmetic knob issue. My understanding is that most defective parts are not returned to BMW NA, but are kept for a period of time so that BMW NA can audit the warranty work, e.g., a dealer could claim the switch is defective, keep the customer happy, and take the risk a random audit of replaced parts will not catch them.

Now, I do not know for sure that BMW takes this approach; however, when I worked for an auto company years ago, that was the approach they took, since sending every defective part back for inspection was seen as a waste of money, and random auditing of warranty work was seen as more cost-effective to keep the dealers honest.

A possibility. I wonder how the dealer coded the service. Craig initially said it was an 'annual service'... if this is not a CBS indicator on the car, but rather a 'good will' or some other code, perhaps that caused BMW to kick the DEF portion. Two questions I had raised:

1. Does the car display an "annual visit" irrespective of the use?? IN other words, does the car keep track of mileage/use as well as time, and trip a visit at "When the conditions indicate, or at one year, whichever comes first"????

2. Is there a TSB or other document that specifies DEF requires a flush and fill at one year?

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by ard

Does the car display an "annual visit" irrespective of the use??

I can't speak to the X5, since mine is so new, but my 2004 Z4 did not show a time based oil change, even though BMW would do it for free if you asked. The dealers were specifically told to not reset the oil change indicator/computer if it was an annual change, unless it was close to indicating service, e.g., if it was an annual oil change and the service indicator showed 500 miles until the next oil change, they would reset it.

Anyone out there have an X5 more than a year old that gave a time-based change oil message at 12 months?

[ICX5]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Anyone out there have an X5 more than a year old that gave a time-based change oil message at 12 months?

Mine manufactured 12/08. CBS called for oil change this past December.

Took in for the oil change, and my dealer (at least wrote up) performed the following:

A. CBS Data States A Standard Scope is Due
Cause: SS Was Due

B. Customer Requests and Engine Oil Service
Cause: Oil Service Was Due

1. Oil Service
2. Windshield Washer (funny, I'd filled this just a day or so earlier)
3. Diesel Exhaust Fluid (3) 83-19-0-440-158 ADBLUE (832510)

Performed Oil Service per CBS Data

C. Complimentary Vehicle Condition Inspection

No charge for this visit, mileage at the time of visit 6,050 miles. On my copy of work order, no tech hours entered (all shown as zero).

[Craig]

Mine didn't show up on the I drive. I took mine in for the heated fuel filter and they plugged my key into their system. The SA told me it was time for an oil change and to have the DEF serviced. I was about two weeks from a year of ownership. I said go ahead and do it. I think they re set the mileage for service as well.

Craig

[ICX5]

iDrive called for just an oil service. SA did say they were going to perform scope (fancy term for plugging in code reader?). Didn't mention anything about servicing the DEF. When I picked up the vehicle, I saw the DEF line item, so I thought, they topped it off, but when I questioned SA about it, he said complete flush and refill was performed (made sense seeing the amount of DEF used).

I was there when SA put key in the reader at his desk (when I dropped vehicle off), but he said nothing about DEF service.

So that's it for the facts, at this point I'm just guessing, but since I wasn't called about additional work (DEF service), maybe my SA/dealer immediately considered service covered and servicing DEF was no different from changing oil or topping off windshield washer fluid under BMW's comprehensive maintenance program.

I (and seems every member here, including you) am sure you're not going to pay anything for your recent service, possibly just a stupid misunderstanding between your dealer and whoever they are dealing with at BMW. It will be interesting if your dealer explains to you in detail where they or BMW erred here. Please share with us if they do.