CPO Question re: certifying a BMW that was in a crash

desrste · #1 05-28-2010, 10:23 AM

Before certifying a car does BMW (the actual dealer or BMW NA) run a check against the VIN to find out if it was ever in an accident? I would think that this would be important for them to know but cannot find out an official answer from BMW NA. I'm just trying to find out if they would have known if a car was involved in an accident before certifying it...not that it should not be certified, only if they would have known it's history.

Additionally, can a BMW be brought to a BMW dealership by another dealership (owned by the same franchise) to be certified and sold as a CPO car?

Thanks in advance for the replies.

ard · #2 05-28-2010, 11:48 AM

CPO cars can be in crashes. DO NOT THINK A CPO IS A GUARANTEE THE CAR IS 'CLEAN'.

Do a google search for 'CPO Guidelines'... you will find a pdf of the actual cpo inspection AND criteria they use.

They are required to verify maintenance- they are not required to look for accidents. The are required to do body work quality inspections. There are certain repair/damages that will automatically prevent CPO certification. It is not clear what their liability is if they 'miss' something. In other words if the car was in a bad crash, damaging part of the body that would exclude CPO- but they miss it and sell it to you as a cpo, My recollection is there is no guarantee they will 'make it right'

Cars may go through any number of hands before a dealer throws a CPO on it... It is my personal belief that dealerships really do not want to look any harder than they must to do a CPO- indeed, if they look too hard and find a problem with a car they already own, they screw themselves.

A BMW dealer can only cpo a car they own. So a VW dealer that is owned by say Braman cannot take it to Braman BMW and certify it. They would need to sell it to braman. CPO it, and sell it to you. But that COULD be done with the stroke of a pen (I once had a private party sell a BMW to a dealer, dealer cpod it, sold it to me, all in 4 hours... I prepaid all inspections, so no risk to the dealer. Cost $2500 total on top if the private party price. For an M5) Very difficult to do, and I've never heard of it working with two dealerships.

Finally, get your own PPI no matter if you get it cpod or not. Indeed, why get a cpo? Just do a very thorough PPI and buy a BMW gold plan extended warranty.

GL

A

desrste · #3 05-28-2010, 01:15 PM

Thanks for the reply. This is what I suspected as well. I actually have a full copy of the CPO Guidelines document from this site.

The thing I just cannot believe is that BMW, or their authorized dealership, would put a CPO sticker on a car that they know has been in an accident and not even tell a consumer. The fact that it was in an accident does not mean that someone is not going to buy the car, just means it was in an accident. Still if BMW is going to stand behind a car they should be obligated to be up front with their consumers. To me that is deceitful and wrong...legally speaking, I recognize this holds no weight but it's still bad business.

As for me I own two BMW's right now. They are amazing cars and after a business trip driving rentals there is nothing better than flying home and hopping into a BMW! Unfortunately, both are going away. I have had so many issues with both my X5 (CPO) and my 328i (New) that I must make a change to something else.

Any BMW NA people listening out there I would be more than happy to speak with you directly to share my experience because there is a lot of room for improvement!

ard · #4 05-28-2010, 01:30 PM

Sorry to hear.

The more people understand what a scam the whole CPO process is- for ALL car marques- the better they can protect themselves.

A

PS Indeed, I often smile when I pull out my car keys while getting ready to head off the plane!

hotrod2448 · #5 05-28-2010, 03:03 PM

I have a CPO bodywork story. When looking for a 7 I found a BMW dealership in Charlottesville VA that had a car that looked promising. I called and was actually fortunate enough to get the GM on the phone. It was close to closing and he was one of the few left in the office.

I started asking him about the car. He assured me it was a very clean car in great condition and didn't appear to have had any body work or ever been smoked in. It was nice enough in fact that he had been driving it the last few weeks. We negotiated a price and I told him we would be renting a car one way and be up on Saturday to pick it up.

I get there and couldn't have been more disappointed. The paint on the hood looked like it had been sandblasted, the interior was terrible, who ever had steam cleaned the carpets left behind way more soap than they ever should have put down in the first place. The center console wood was cracked. There was a cigarette burn in the seat and to top it all of I opened the RR door and you could see where they had taped off to paint the entire RR quarter panel and Cpost.

When I asked how this was a clean car they just looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language. Conveniently the GM just happened to be out of town the day we were coming. When I asked about the issues they said "Well it meets the CPO criteria". We drove home another 4.5 hours in the rental quite pissed off after that.

I later found out through one of the sales people the car wasn't in that shape before the GM decided to make it his demo car. The original owner didn't smoke but, the GM did. The guys who did the CPO inspection swore the car didn't have paint work when it was traded, etc... I reported the GM to BMWNA after receiving a phone call from them regarding something else and they sent me a nice care package with a t-shirt, art car die-cast and a few other trinkets.

BCA · #6 05-28-2010, 03:59 PM

My 2006 330i was leased and I was in a low-speed accident in 2008. It did about $6,000 damage to my car and the repairs included a new bumper, hood, fender, headlight and control arm. The car was as good as new afterward but I still didn't think it would be worthy of CPO. When I turned the car in about a year later, the dealer proceeded to sell it as a CPO car. I know because I checked it on the lot afterward. I can't say I was totally surprised.

Sea Doom · #7 05-28-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCA

My 2006 330i was leased and I was in a low-speed accident in 2008. It did about $6,000 damage to my car and the repairs included a new bumper, hood, fender, headlight and control arm. The car was as good as new afterward but I still didn't think it would be worthy of CPO. When I turned the car in about a year later, the dealer proceeded to sell it as a CPO car. I know because I checked it on the lot afterward. I can't say I was totally surprised.

Exactly the same for our '07 328iT. When I CARFAXed the vehicle while it was on the lot the report came back 'clean'. Maybe the fact that the bodywork was performed by a "BMW Factory Certified' shop kept the incident from CARFAX?

ard · #8 05-28-2010, 05:58 PM

1. Carfax is worthless. Has nothing to do with who does the work, it is who pays the bill that decides what to report. It can be very spotty.

2. Never buy ***ANY*** used car without an inspection. If you cannot do it, pay someone- DO NOT trust the dealer to inspect the same item they are selling- which is exactly what a CPO inspection is. (Fox inspecting the hen house...)

nom3rcy · #9 05-28-2010, 07:42 PM

CPO has it's ups and downs.

Both of our X5s were bought CPO.

The first one was through a dealership and we had them find a 'spotless' 02 4.6is (this is in late '02)

They found one, had it delivered here, and it had some minor issues like curb rash, a small dent in the rear tailgate, and I can't remember what else, some sort of broken trim piece.

All of it was taken care of (including refinishing the wheels) by the dealer to bring it up to CPO guidelines. Of course it helped that I had the CPO pdf outlining the criteria like no dents or blemishes to bodywork and trim, etc. because they probably wouldn't have done it otherwise. Car was like new with 6k miles on it when we picked it up.

I am pretty sure if you can pass the test you can have any BMW certified as long as it is less than 6 years old and less than 50k miles.

It is essentially an extended warranty program, I'd like to think that most dealers are doing their diligence to make sure only the best cars are accepted, but obviously some are less scrupulous than others.

JCL · #10 05-28-2010, 08:41 PM

CPO guidelines are pretty clear on what is inspected, and what isn't. They outline what accident damage disqualifies a car as a CPO. Essentially, the unibody has to be damaged to the point that structural components need to be replaced (repair is OK). Those critical components include shock towers, engine rails, A-B-C pillars, roof, etc. Repair or replacement of other components (doors, fenders, bumpers, etc) that are non-structural is fine, the dealer just needs to inspect the work and look for unpainted metal (pursuant to the corrosion warranty).

http://www.bmwmotorsports.org/pdf/mi...guidelines.pdf

I like the CPO program, but it is important to realize what it is, and what it isn't. It is really just a used car with a BMW warranty. Since we have no BMW extended warranties here, a CPO is the only way to get such a warranty, and that makes it a reasonable alternative for many buyers.

I understand the disclosure issue, but in many jurisdictions, that disclosure is required for any private or dealer sale, it has nothing to do with manufacturer certifications of used vehicles. In BC, the hurdle is any damage over $2000 (which is a pretty low figure).