Sad news;

[Penguin]

The California Lemon Law seems to be a bit more vague than some other states' lemon laws:

Consumers - Motor Vehicle Warranty and Lemon Law - California Dept. of Justice - Office of the Attorney General

[ard]

Originally Posted by THK

That is incorrect. Most lemon laws state that 1) 3 times for the same repair. 2) Vehicle is down for repairs for 20-30 business days. 3)Problem affects safety, use of operation, or value.

I know the states of Florida and Washington would have a field day for a CEL continuously coming on (would not have to be the same problem). I know, had to defend the auto manufacture I worked for. Some states are pro consumer, big time.

I would recommend you contact the appropriate governing body for lemon law procedures in your state. Information would include what qualifies for lemon law.

Hope BMW resolves your concern.

Great, a lawyer. In your professional opinion then, if the CEL comes on three times- NO MATTER WHAT THE REPAIR OR ACTION TAKEN- this is a lemon law qualifying situation?

Because that is what you imply.

Originally Posted by deutsch100

I agree with THK. California is pretty pro-consumer. It does NOT have to be the same problem, 3 times, to be the only grounds for a lemon buy back. It can be how many days the car has been in the service dept, and you not being able to use the car.

You actually don't know what you are agreeing to.... Surely there are other grounds for lemon buybacks, but in terms of the "three times" qualification are you saying (like THK said) that any fault that sets a CEL no matter what the repair will get you a buyback?

Nevermind that CA has different numbers of repair attempts depening on the issue...

You DO understand that "California" doesn't actually get involved in this process? There are state laws and regs that define this, but it is up to BMW to interpret and for the consumer to press their issue. You don't call an office and the person in charge says "BMW, pay this" or "BMW buy this back"...

(THK...the 'appropriate governing body'?!?!? That would be the California Legislature. Do you have their number? Seriously, here are the regs: Consumers - Motor Vehicle Warranty and Lemon Law - California Dept. of Justice - Office of the Attorney General )

(edit: penguin already posted this- first hit from a google of 'california lemon laws'...legal geniuses both he and I)

But hey, if you guys are both saying "don't worry about what sets the CEL, three times and BMW automatically buys the car back" then the OP is all set.

[DWill]

So the deal is the dealer reflashed my car again.

A rep from BMW talked to me today. Without going through the entire conversation the bottom line is that shalould the carbthrow any false codes after this reflash BMW will explore a remedy with me.

There is nothing wrong with my car other than software.
As the rep said "you didn't pay $100k dollars for a car you can't have complete faith and trust in, we'll make it right".

As of right now there are no fault codes, from here we'll see what happens.

[Sher KamaL]

With my experiences on M cars. Best would be to get rid of it now, back to BMWNA. I did that in South Africa with an E60 M5. The car just either switched off at anytime or refused to start? was brand new, not even run in yet. The engine was perfect, it's the ECU, M-DME & only God knows which computer link just keeps on failing. Once all their investigations were completed (4 weeks) BMW-SA, replaced me with a brand new M5. I was also given a loan 550i at the time for the gross inconvenience. P.S. They never truly found the problem & the M5 was apparently shipped back to Germany, so I was told?

So honestly if your problem persists, insist on your money back or a brand new M.

[DSE]

I ran into repeated issues of my 2010 X5 throwing mutiple / dozens of inexplicable error codes. It was not clear what was triggering them, but they eventually included engine, airbags, abs, and brakes codes, even though the car was driving fine (except in the last instance, when the engine ran rough and wouldn't restart right away ). The codes tended to go away if we restarted the car.

If you get the car back, I suggest you take a video camera or phone wityh you. If it happens again, take a picture of of the i-drive screen and dashboard so your dealer can see all the error codes and what the car is doing.

After being in the shop mutliple times and unable to resolve what was causing the error codes, my dealer and BMW volunteered to swap my X5 for a 2011 model, which thankfully has been fine.

While I monitored the situation with the lemon law in mind, we never raised it and didn't feel the need to raise a huge stink about the problem because the dealer had arranged a loaner for us the whole time the car was in the shop, and we knew and expected the dealer and BMW to fix the problem or buy the car back.

I personally feel this type of problem can and does happen in any modern vehicle (or any complex technilogical device for that matter), but in the end, BMW stood by their product, so we are still happy customers.

[anzer]

Yes, agree with DSE, get a video camera and take pictures of the codes and problems as they come up ..I did this and it was really helpful to prove that there were real problems rather than the dealer trying to replicate them in their own time ..and often with gremlin electric problems they can be there one moment and not the next (typically there for you but not the dealer/mechanic etc)