X5 BMW Service Recommendation Changes?

[XXX555]

Originally Posted by motordavid

Here is a thread from a couple weeks ago; same topic:

http://www.xoutpost.com/off-topic/lo...ge-policy.html

GL, mD

Thanks David. I feel swindled by BMW.

God help those certified pre-owned BMW people whose vehicles went 24 months between oil/filter changes.....

[pete540]

Since you have a diesel, this does not apply, you still get annual oil changes.

[XXX555]

Originally Posted by pete540

Since you have a diesel, this does not apply, you still get annual oil changes.

Not according to my service manager. But that would make some sense with the DEF refill stuff. Can you elaborate or site some reference? thanx

[JCL]

Originally Posted by XXX555

Not according to my service manager. But that would make some sense with the DEF refill stuff. Can you elaborate or site some reference? thanx

The diesels do not appear to be going the same 15,000 mile (approximately) intervals as the gasoline engine models before a service is called for. Several posters report seeing the lights come on quite a bit sooner, in the 10,000 - 12,000 mile range IIRC.

If you do want to pursue it with your dealer, read the SIB that I posted in the link MD gave, above. It states that diesels are not covered by the new policy. There may be a different SIB that does apply to diesel models, I am not sure.

[XXX555]

Originally Posted by JCL

The diesels do not appear to be going the same 15,000 mile (approximately) intervals as the gasoline engine models before a service is called for. Several posters report seeing the lights come on quite a bit sooner, in the 10,000 - 12,000 mile range IIRC.

If you do want to pursue it with your dealer, read the SIB that I posted in the link MD gave, above. It states that diesels are not covered by the new policy. There may be a different SIB that does apply to diesel models, I am not sure.

Thanks for all of the info.

My suggestion was not BMW specific regarding recommendations to change your motor oil and filter more regularly will best maintain your engine. I have noted this for the past 40 years or so (when we paid for the oil/filter service).

Even with the advent of synthetic motor oil and better engine manufacturing tolerances, intervals have been extended but not to the 24 months BMW allows. Knowing that the bottom line is always the bottom line to large companies, BMW having to pay less (make more) for greater service intervals seems like quite the biased enticement for BMW's largest market.

While there may be an engine that is pristine in a photo utilizing BMW maintainence intervals, it does not prove or settle my concern that annual maintainence is better than 24 month oil/filter changes. I suggest that the cost benefit ratio of extended/ suggested interval replacement of oil/filter benefits BMW's pockets and not the vehicle owner (in the short term).

Perhaps someone will chime in with more specific mechanical experience or knowledge than I, but wonder what the oil manufacturors (how many times can I misspell that word) recommend for their product. Again, no bias there...

[JCL]

While BMW having to pay less (make more) for greater service intervals may sees like quite the biased enticement for BMW's largest market, if you as an owner then don't follow BMW's recommendations, but instead run 50% longer, and trade the car in, BMW has so little concern that they will turn around and warrant your engine for the full CPO term. The cost of failure of engines (both in repair costs and loss of reputation) in those cases would be far higher than the savings related to the owners who ask for annual oil changes. So, they have already put their money where their mouth is. On top of the warranty costs, BMW holds the lease residual values in many cases. They are the ones at risk. If engines started cratering, lease values would plummet.

I also don't believe you can ask an oil company for a recommendation on how much of their product you should buy. They were part of the 3000 mile change myth that went on for years. They are motivated to have you buy much more. You need to ask the engine manufacturers, as they are the ones who carry the risk. You can analyze the oil during its useful life, and see if it continues to exhibit the properties it needs, and whether it still has sufficient additives, but those tests have been done, and we know that the oil stands up, apart from those applications that can be judged to be severe service.

You mention synthetic oils and better manufacturing tolerances, but in my mind (mech eng here), what is more important is that the sump is twice the size of many others (giving literally twice the interval) and the engines are ultra low emissions, meaning that there are far fewer byproducts of combustion to contaminate the oil. Engines burning cleaner means the oil stays cleaner. You can filter out metallic particles, but you can't replace the additives that are lost to acids which contaminate the oil.

Let us know what your dealer says when you ask him if there is an SIB on annual oil changes that applies to your diesel.

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by XXX555

God help those certified pre-owned BMW people whose vehicles went 24 months between oil/filter changes.....

Why? There is little evidence that more frequent oil change does any good in modern engines.

[XXX555]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

Why? There is little evidence that more frequent oil change does any good in modern engines.

I specifically did not leave out filter in my statement as someone would post what you did.

While I cannot site an article, changing oil and filter every xxxx miles or annually has been recommended up until the manufacturor had to pay for it.

If you have a reference proving that regularly changing oil and filter does not extend the life of an engine please post it.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by XXX555

While I cannot cite an article, changing oil and filter every xxxx miles or annually has been recommended up until the manufacturor had to pay for it.

If you have a reference proving that regularly changing oil and filter does not extend the life of an engine please post it.

Your first statement isn't true. Remember that the prepaid maintenance is in the US, not the rest of the world. You are taking your US experience and correlating it to maintenance practices world wide. Prepaid maintenance came in over a series of years, while maintenance intervals were extended over a different series of years. The timelines didn't necessariliy match up.

The SIB on free annual oil changes from 2001 (contained in the thread link that MD put up) only ever applied in the US. It didn't apply in Canada, for example, where we also have prepaid scheduled maintenance.

BMWNA in the US has let this go for years, probably not wanting to antagonize the relatively small % of owners who do want annual oil changes. They seem to have finally just decided that enough was enough.

I think that your request for proof that regularly changing oil and filter isn't beneficial is too broad. Seems like you are putting up a strawman that is easy to knock down. Instead, I would say that exceeding the maintenance frequency recommended by the manufacturer has little to no benefit.

Here is a link for you. It is a 100,000 mile engine that followed the BMW recommendations of 15,000 miles for oil and filter. Photos look pretty good. Seems to me that qualifies as proof. Now how about that proof that doing 7500 mile intervals or annual oil changes makes the vehicle last longer?

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...intervals.html

As a side note, I wouldn't worry about buying a CPO that followed the manufacturer's maintenance recommendations. BMW's own CPO guidelines will accept a vehicle in to the CPO program that has 5 years/60,000 miles and only two oil changes in that time. If it has two oil changes in 48 months/60,000 miles they don't even open the valve cover to look at it. Then they warrant the engine for the term of the CPO, and carry that risk themselves. I suggest that they know very well what the cost of not doing annual oil changes is in terms of engine wear, and that it is essentially non-existent. We are so far past requiring annual oil changes that I am not surprised that they are going to take the heat for not doing them in the US any longer.

It seems to me that their willingness to carry the financial risk relating to oil change intervals carries more weight that any suggestion that they are just trying to save money by not doing annual oil changes. Sure they are saving money, but it doesn't mean owners are being disadvantaged by the change in policy.

Link here: http://www.xoutpost.com/585947-post14.html