Navigation Update

[ard]

Here is a bit of a different question:

Does the language in the BMW new car warranty require them to repair any defects in the map data due to 'defects in worksmanship'?

I am not talking about a road that isn't listed, but where there are defects either in the media- or in the coding- such that erroneous operation results.

And this is a narrow discussion on the legal issue, not a "I asked my dealer and he said no"....anyone need a pdf of the warranty booklet? I cannot find any exclusion for software.

Thoughts?


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[ukwildcat]

Originally Posted by AlexK

Yea, I know that.





Google doesn't use a SINGLE map data provider, they use multiple ones, including their own map data, as well as TeleAtlas. Try inputting different cities around the world in Google Maps (like Paris, France or Moscow, Russia or Tokyo, Japan), then note the changing copyright text in the lower right corner.

Most of my experience is with NAVTEQ, who many say is the better provider in North America, but..

From what I can find - which, surprisingly, isn't as much as I'd like - TeleAtlas is the better data provider in Europe.

So far, except for a slimmer POI database than I'm used to - but it's always hit or miss - the TeleAtlas map seems to be somewhat more accurate on actual "road positions" but somewhat less accurate on their address model.

But why would choosing TeleAtlas be "the wrong one?" Sorry, I'm only trying to learn more about this.

I won't hide the fact that I was VERY leery at first, but as I've gotten to use it more - the ETA issue I described notwithstanding - I've actually become IMPRESSED. Maybe it's just the graphics, but it's been very satisfying to use. A bit slower than I would have thought for a hard drive-based system, although not any worse than the DVD one I was used to.

Oh, and that startup time still kills me. The ancient Lexus DVD-based system was "instant on."

We've had a major off-ramp get closed and two major highways about to come online (extensions, really) in the next year or so, so I'll wait for another update.

In the meantime, I know BMW said recently they were going to go to the MeeGo environment going forward. Not sure if THAT'S a good move either.

[ukwildcat]

Originally Posted by AlexK

Last time I went to Europe I took my Garmin unit (which uses Navteq data) with me. I had almost 0 issues with it, except finding a single address in Baden-Baden (freshly built hotel with a new "building number", was not in Navteq's database)

That is good to know.

I beg your pardon - I don't wish to appear flippant, but..

Whenever I look for "reviews" for any given product, I look for the BAD ones first, THEN the good ones. Most often, the "bad" ones are some unreasonable expectation or some petty complaint, and you have to weed through those for the REAL BAD complaints. "Product broke in a month" or, in this case, "does really annoying things X and Y" are good to know.

By that token, I would like to hear cases where TeleAtlas data was just plain bad. I know they exist. Right now, NO MAP DATA will be 100% correct in every case - as I said, roads change VERY FREQUENTLY here, and so it's definitely a concern. I'm more concerned with who has more correct data.

Not that I would get to pick, in any case.. <sigh>
And for that, I definitely sympathize.

One other complaint I had with the Lexus (NAVTEQ).. Roads - particularly highways - were inconsistently named. For example, it would find "HWY 55" but it would only find "NC HWY 54" and not "HWY 54." It was not the same. SO FAR, the TeleAtlas is consistent here AND more flexible, i.e. I can find "HWY 54" OR "NC HWY 54". With the NAVTEQ it was its way, or well.. The highway. It also searched only on simple matches, not in proximity. It was also very bad at telling what towns were "near," but certainly I'll chalk that up more to implementation than bad data. In the end, for a manufacturer's integrated system, it all matters.

So far, I'm very satisfied. I think the Lexus system had a slight edge in usability and (yeah, again) in its ability - without traffic data - to accurately predict ETA, although, strangely, it would not "adapt." If it WOULD have been 30 minutes but I drove like a maniac, it would be off. With the X5's system, it WILL adapt and as I get closer, it will be more accurate.. But it's the ridiculous initial (or far away) time that bothers me. It could say I'm half a mile from home and it will take five minutes! Irritating.

[ard]

Originally Posted by ukwildcat

Most of my experience is with NAVTEQ, who many say is the better provider in North America, but..

From what I can find - which, surprisingly, isn't as much as I'd like - TeleAtlas is the better data provider in Europe.

So far, except for a slimmer POI database than I'm used to - but it's always hit or miss - the TeleAtlas map seems to be somewhat more accurate on actual "road positions" but somewhat less accurate on their address model.

But why would choosing TeleAtlas be "the wrong one?" Sorry, I'm only trying to learn more about this.

I won't hide the fact that I was VERY leery at first, but as I've gotten to use it more - the ETA issue I described notwithstanding - I've actually become IMPRESSED. Maybe it's just the graphics, but it's been very satisfying to use. A bit slower than I would have thought for a hard drive-based system, although not any worse than the DVD one I was used to.

Oh, and that startup time still kills me. The ancient Lexus DVD-based system was "instant on."

We've had a major off-ramp get closed and two major highways about to come online (extensions, really) in the next year or so, so I'll wait for another update.

In the meantime, I know BMW said recently they were going to go to the MeeGo environment going forward. Not sure if THAT'S a good move either.

I agree about teleatlas being strong in EU. I've used BMW nav in Europe several times and it was very, very good. Better integration and functionality than the US in the last 2010 5 series I drove. I remember thinking "wow, I wish nav worked like this in the US"

So it is my belief that BMW changed vendors based- in large part- on their experience with teleatlas in Europe, and really did not understand the impact of the sub-par maps in the USA on the customer experience here... I can tell you that BMWNA is getting hammered with complaints and has dedicated staff to field calls about nav and forward those complaints onwards. The know precisely who to send the comments to, as it is a well-worn pathway....

Back to 'wrong one'.... there appears to be hidden data defects scattered throughout the Teleatlas database that makes the routing algorithm 'think' there isn't a through road when there is.... as a result many people get very whacky routing. Can it find a restaurant or an address- yes. But the bigger problem is that the routes are nowhere near optimal due to these occult flaws within the data describing the road.

I think over time this will get addressed- 3,4 years and they will pull it up...BUT at OUR expense, and only if BMW hammers on Teleatlas under the terms of their secret agreement (which hopefully includes performance and complaint clauses to force teleatlas)

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[Penguin]

Originally Posted by ukwildcat

By that token, I would like to hear cases where TeleAtlas data was just plain bad.

How about driving on vacation through Utah last Summer and the Nav tells me to turn left while driving on a highway. The map shows a road to the left, but all there is are cattle grazing and not even a cow trail of a road ten miles either way.

Numerous people will tell you how TeleAtlas data frequently cannot identify the correct town for locations. I'm suspcious that it some how uses zip codes to identify town for locations, which is ridiculous, since there are many, many mailing addresses/zip codes that do not match the actual physical location.

But rather than type, just do a search and you will find many example of how bad Teleatlas data is.

Here's a start:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-comments.html

Check-out post #30...

[GPSnV1]

I, too, drive a 2008 and wanted to get the new maps due to some changes in my two major trips a year. I stopped first because of being unsure about the quality of the latest maps but also because one must purchase 2 dvds and one dvd works for OK and another for AR (where I drive through 4 times a year).

In the meantime, I used my iPhone and iPad last summer and found that the free ap called BeatTheTraffic gave more real-time information about traffic than I got from the built-in nav. So what I did most on the last run (Dec) was to place my iPhone withTomTom right in front of the map of the built-in nav where I could still see the column with turns on the factory unity. The TT app demonostrate turns well on interstates and I am still experimenting with which voice to turn on.

BeatTheTraffic now has a lot of ads so I am waiting for either MapQuest or Google maps to do a better job with live traffic on their apps.

I would gladly pay for a merger of these technologies much as I would if one could merge V1 with the Redline. But for now I am also running both the V1 & RL at the same time.

[GPSnV1]

I have not tested this as yet, but the TT app for iPhone/iPad has MapShare that in theory makes corrections to the maps quite often:

TomTom, portable GPS car navigation systems - mapshare

I noticed the BMW web wants $350 for navigation dvds which is higher than what I want to go but just curious if the $200 sets at the dealers will be updated before summer.

[jdbretz]

I didn't see in the thread where anyone gave feedback on the torrents for the 2011 Nav DVD, so I will. It works great, and I use it in both my E70 and E92 without any issues. I can confirm the maps are indeed updated from the 2010 maps (which i purchased from the dealership) and does include the red light and speed cameras. If you are familiar with torrents you can figure out how to download and use these. You can all the info you need on the links here:

2011 Nav DVDs Released - Page 4 - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum - E90Post.com

The only issue you will have is if you burn the dvd at too high of a speed as it can introduce errors into the disc.

[ard]

Anyone find a working source for the CIC maps???

This is the 3 DVD set for cars that require a FSC activation code and the data gets loaded on the hard drive...so 2010 E70 and newer....

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[ard]

Originally Posted by AlexK

You can buy those DVD's at official BMW parts dealer for $7, why would you bother pirating them?
BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92) - View Single Post - Can 09 idrive be installed on 08?

As far as for activation code - there are no known software "keygens" for it, so you'll probably have to rely on your dealer for this... Maybe tell him that your car "all of the sudden" started to ask for this code so maybe they can provide the code to you over the phone (all you'll need is provide the VIN #) or something...

So I've been unable to find a dealer selling those. Yes there WERE links to sites...NO they are not valid any longer.

Anyone have a good link to ANY site actually selling the DVDs????

(Note that my request was not specific to 'pirated' sources... although it appears BMW is seeking to monopolize the upgrade process to only BMW dealers with a cost of $400+... in which case I am less aghast at the concept of 'pirating'...)

I can buy the FSC for $100. and not at "my" dealer, but yes from someone who has the BMW keygen capability....

Thx

A