Going to change the oil, where are the jacking pts and oil drain?

[ard]

Originally Posted by Bill K

Thanks. Mobil 1 is listed as one of the approved oils. To double check, I can even contact my local dealer. This of course does not apply to the M3. That car is only supposed to use their TWS (10w-60) Castrol.

OH MY GOD

You need to learn how to read. That link lists TOP OFF OILS.

Those are NOT "approved for fresh fills".


remember, the dealer is not the warrantor, nor is what the dealer says in writing.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by ard

That link lists TOP OFF OILS.

Those are NOT "approved for fresh fills".

That seems a narrow interpretation of BMWNA's bulletin.

IMO their specific wording is only because BMWNA can't understand why anyone would change the oil in between the required scheduled changes.

BMW has carefully worded their document to not encourage additional changes. That doesn't mean that such changes void the warranty, just that BMW can't see the logic in doing them, and would prefer that customers use the dealer for service. They are very careful not to require you to use the dealer for service.

An API SM oil is approved. If it is an SM oil from a major manufacturer in the correct viscosity, it is hard to imagine BMW denying warranty simply due to the type of oil.

But if you want to eliminate absolutely all risk, and believe that BMW is looking for opportunities to void warranty on major engine failures, by all means only use the dealer for service. That is because there is more chance of damage from who does it (and if it is done properly) than which oil it is, assuming specified oils. Again, just IMO.

[ard]

Originally Posted by JCL

That seems a narrow interpretation of BMWNA's bulletin.

IMO their specific wording is only because BMWNA can't understand why anyone would change the oil in between the required scheduled changes.

BMW has carefully worded their document to not encourage additional changes. That doesn't mean that such changes void the warranty, just that BMW can't see the logic in doing them, and would prefer that customers use the dealer for service. They are very careful not to require you to use the dealer for service.

An API SM oil is approved. If it is an SM oil from a major manufacturer in the correct viscosity, it is hard to imagine BMW denying warranty simply due to the type of oil.

But if you want to eliminate absolutely all risk, and believe that BMW is looking for opportunities to void warranty on major engine failures, by all means only use the dealer for service. .

There is a very specific reason they allow 'non-bmw oil' for top off: they would be required to provide free oil under moss-magnussen...even though they spec one BMW oil, they must allow for non-BMW oil for needed top offs outside of their (way too infrequent) CBS services.

Since they pay for CBS service, under MM they can require only BMW oil for that service- and they do.



I am ABSOLUTELY NOT saying 'use the dealer for service' for the interstitial services...just that they specify ONE oil to be used to fill the car, and that is THE oil I use under warranty.

It has nothing to do with API ratings or full-synthetics or 'good enough'...it is simply one of avoiding a hassle of something unrelated to oil causes an issue and BMW sends an oil sample off somewhere.

After the warranty? I do not use BMW oils, and there is a WORLD of great choices...and the last people I trust would be a BMW Marketing Brochure written by lawyers.

Finally, BMW has published and revised this document multiple times... to think that this is written the way it is becuase they are 'confused' or 'cannot understand why' people would do extra oil changes is not believable (IMO).. indeed, they clearly understand these issues and spell out the whole 'interstitial change' issue in other documents that discuss the limits of the CBS (condition based service) intervals.

This memo is frustratingly dumb and surprisingly restrictive...People can decide that BMW really doesn't mean what it says, but they should know what it says. Narrow? yes. But it says what it says.

A

[JCL]

Originally Posted by ard

There is a very specific reason they allow 'non-bmw oil' for top off: they would be required to provide free oil under moss-magnussen...even though they spec one BMW oil, they must allow for non-BMW oil for needed top offs outside of their (way too infrequent) CBS services.

Since they pay for CBS service, under MM they can require only BMW oil for that service- and they do.

But they also suggest additional (mid cycle) oil changes for 'severe service', and they don't pay for that oil. So they can't require the use of a specific (BMW) oil, using your point re Moss-Magnuson.

My suggestion was that the interpretation was narrow, not BMW's document itself. It was fairly open IMO.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by JCL

But they also suggest additional (mid cycle) oil changes for 'severe service'

While this is common for a lot of manufacturers, I've never seen this for recent BMWs. Do you have a reference, as I would like to read it and see what they conditions they consider severe service.

[ard]

Originally Posted by Penguin

While this is common for a lot of manufacturers, I've never seen this for recent BMWs. Do you have a reference, as I would like to read it and see what they conditions they consider severe service.

Ditto, never saw this for BMWs since I bought the E39. Acura does this as does Ford.

My assumption is that BMW purports their "Condition Based Service" system takes the service severity into account.... (which is great on paper). In practice, we geenrally see all users winding up with the same intervals.

It used to be things like ambient temps, trip lengths, towing, dusty, etc. Were all used to determine which 'schedule' you used.

Although if you think about it, a few hot days, towing for 10% of the time, etc, should not halve the interval of an otherwise normally driven car....

Still, any link or other BMW document (not dealer stuff) would be of interest to the geek squad here!

A

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Penguin

While this is common for a lot of manufacturers, I've never seen this for recent BMWs. Do you have a reference, as I would like to read it and see what they conditions they consider severe service.

I will have to look for it, as I don't have it scanned. I know I have read it in the service guidelines to my recent BMW vehicles, but to be fair, my own documents are BMW Canada, not BMWNA.

From memory, the severe service conditions mentioned were frequent short trips, extended idling, and very dusty conditions. There was no mention of trailer towing.

Edit: It isn't mentioned in my 2008 owner's manual or service guide, so that likely puts it back to my X5. It seemed like only yesterday. Sorry for the confusion. Consider my comment withdrawn.

[JCL]

A further point on the use of approved oils (approved by BMWNA). The most recent owner's manual posted here has a blurb about using approved oils. I only found it since I looked to see if they mentioned the severe service clause (they don't). But they do also mention a separate list for top-off oils. It would appear that since the two requirements are listed separately, that approved oils are approved for other than only top-off. Clip attached from 2009 owner's manual.

Note also that this 2009 document still includes the now-superceded listing for LL-04 oil in North America, in gasoline engines. BMWNA retracted the recommendation to use oil with that spec due to that oil not standing up due to North American gasoline quality.