Clean diesel is a pain V2.0

[ZetaTre]

Originally Posted by primeral

I don't anticipate any glow plug problem, as that was replaced at a BMW dealership prior to my purchase of the vehicle 15 months ago. If it's a new glow plug problem, I'm unaware of it.

Could you articulate this? Was it the glowplug module that failed or individual glowplugs?

In Euro cars failed glow plugs do not trigger a CEL; I'm unsure of US since I've never had any glowplug problem with mine.

I'm uncertain whether there is a direct cause-effect relationship between bad glowplugs and clogged DPF (examples of direct cause-effect could be that a glowplug code stored in the DDE stops the regen or the glowplugs are used to increase the EGT).

However multiple bad glowplugs are just another symptom of a failed thermostat: when the coolant temperature is below 75C the DDE enrich the fuel mixture to accelerate warmup and uses the glowplug (under part-load) to facilitate combustion and reduce soot. If the thermostat fails and the coolant temperature drops below 75C the DDE goes in "engine warmup mode": this results in high fuel consumption and overloads the glowplugs that blow. In essence, in our engine glowplugs are not used only for startup, but they are used as part of an emission controlling strategy under certain circumstances.

Let us know!

[bawareca]

Our diesel computers are Bosch EDC17CP09,that is the newest generation,F model diesels are equipped with them,and could be flashed on the bench only and it requires opening and connecting a boot pin to the board.Due to the flash tuning that I and a BMW diesel tuner from Norway are developing I have the tools required to do the job(Ktag).
This is very sophisticated DDE and it monitors all exhaust parameters too closely.Any change in the parameters like DPF backpressure,high pressure or low pressure EGR and EGR bypass valve will trigger different reactions from the DDE,CEL being the least important.No other BMW that I know of,except our US X5Ds have a low pressure EGR(the one that connects to the DPF) and adjusting the software may take some trial and error,but it is not monitored that closely anyway.
OP,if you like to work with us on the DPF delete(and EGR if you want to) flash tune,you are welcome to contact me.I am planning to start working on that before the summer,but if you went this route already why wait.

[ard]

Interesting thread.

Going to see how this stuff plays out in the community- personally I have an issue with defeating emissions for no good reason- like a handful of possible HP, or just some misguided mindset that "emissions control is the government controlling our lives".

On the other hand, if owners are being abused financially by a poorly engineered system, which is horrendously expensive to maintain and which our US regulators fail to protect consumers (by allowing manufacturers not to warrant their work) a bypass/elimination may be fair game.

If zetatre is correct and that these systems failures are due to cascading issues (thermostat, cool running, etc) this may be an option other than bybass surgery.

[bawareca]

Originally Posted by ard

Interesting thread.

Going to see how this stuff plays out in the community- personally I have an issue with defeating emissions for no good reason- like a handful of possible HP, or just some misguided mindset that "emissions control is the government controlling our lives".

On the other hand, if owners are being abused financially by a poorly engineered system, which is horrendously expensive to maintain and which our US regulators fail to protect consumers (by allowing manufacturers not to warrant their work) a bypass/elimination may be fair game.

If zetatre is correct and that these systems failures are due to cascading issues (thermostat, cool running, etc) this may be an option other than bybass surgery.

Well said I am on the same mindset as you on these matters. Now there are a few "ECO " questions:
-all the diesel "emission" systems result in a higher consumption,it may be 4-6 MPG for the US X5D over ROW models.Is the net result really pro-ECO,or just a local cleaner air in the cities?
-Generally,the DPF collects the soot and releases it(regeneration)while burning some of it.It is released back in the atmosphere after all.According to many experienced BMW diesel tuners,with DPF removed,this engine will emit very slight HAZE out of the exhaust under hard acceleration only.No blowing black smokes out of the tailpipe in any way.
-as we all know now the problem with the HP EGR,is it worth it all th edamge it is causing when failing ?
DPF off may be a more radical solution,EGR delete has so many benefits that I cant even start counting.It may net over $2k savings in the span of 40-50 k miles.Not even counting the headaches

[JCL]

Originally Posted by bawareca

Well said I am on the same mindset as you on these matters. Now there are a few "ECO " questions:
-all the diesel "emission" systems result in a higher consumption,it may be 4-6 MPG for the US X5D over ROW models.Is the net result really pro-ECO,or just a local cleaner air in the cities?

It is undoubtedly a net positive. Particulate filters take out up to 90% of the particulate matter. Diesel particulate matter has been shown to be very harmful to human health. According to the Californian authorities, "long-term exposure to diesel exhaust particles poses the highest cancer risk of any toxic air contaminant evaluated by OEHHA. ARB estimates that about 70 percent of the cancer risk that the average Californian faces from breathing toxic air pollutants stems from diesel exhaust particles."

If you increase consumption 5 mpg it increases pollutants by around 15%. If you then treat the exhaust and take out 90% of the pollutants, you are way ahead, on a net basis.

The smog component relates to NOx, not particulates so much. NOx is reduced by the urea injection. Removing the urea system and disabling the selective catalytic reduction increases smog.

It is difficult to directly compare the US regulated X5D with the ROW models. The US focuses on NOx because of the contribution to smog. Europe focuses on CO, because of the contribution to climate change. The vehicles have been optimized for different criteria. What is greener? Probably driving a much smaller, lighter vehicle, and driving less. There isn't much to choose between one 5000 lb diesel vehicle with a single occupant (most of the time) and another.

Originally Posted by bawareca

-Generally,the DPF collects the soot and releases it(regeneration)while burning some of it.It is released back in the atmosphere after all.According to many experienced BMW diesel tuners,with DPF removed,this engine will emit very slight HAZE out of the exhaust under hard acceleration only.No blowing black smokes out of the tailpipe in any way.
-as we all know now the problem with the HP EGR,is it worth it all the damge it is causing when failing ?

The regeneration cycles burns the soot, it doesn't release it.

Originally Posted by bawareca

DPF off may be a more radical solution,EGR delete has so many benefits that I cant even start counting. It may net over $2k savings in the span of 40-50 k miles.Not even counting the headaches

In my opinion, that makes a good case for any fines to be many times the potential savings.

This discussion illustrates one aspect of why it took so long for diesels to come to North America, on regulated vehicles (ie lower GVWR than HD pickups). The manufacturers were concerned that people would defeat the systems (as was the EPA) and so the systems were made even more complicated (and thus less reliable) to try and thwart tampering.

I am with Ard in that I have an issue with defeating emissions controls. IMO, if the current solutions offered by manufacturers have more problems than they are worth, then that is a very good reason not to purchase a diesel. It isn't like there aren't alternatives.

[bawareca]

Originally Posted by JCL

...

Your opinions are valid and I agree with most of them.EGR,DPF and SCR systems are separate emission reducing system and eliminating one of them does not render the others useless.
Once someone has a $30k disfunctional diesel he is free to choose to spend a huge amount for repairs with a questionable outcome,sell it at a huge loss and buy a gas vehicle,or drive it till it dies and take even bigger loss.Or,after abandoned by manufacturers and law makers,to make the things work in the best possible way.Different people,different choices.

[primeral]

My X5 has been on jack stands and between getting sick and relapsing with the flu, I've pretty much had it and I just want my SAV drivable. Bawareca, I'll message you. When all is said and done, I want to be in the garage working on my Datsun Z and not the X5.