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  #11  
Old 02-17-2015, 01:09 PM
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I would definitely have a thorough inspection done.

These cars are quite hit or miss on quality, so this may be a good one, but worth checking on.

BTW, the e70 chassis is nice, but I'll be honest, the e53 interior seems to be a bit more solid.

Chris
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  #12  
Old 02-17-2015, 04:10 PM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris F. View Post

Part of me says the engine has already reached 80k that you should be fine, but how about you grab the VIN and have a willing service advisor run the VIN and see what the warranty history was on it?
See, and for this issue with the N63, the higher mileage cars would be MORE susceptible to my way of thinking.

You need to understand BMW is replacing the parts that CAUSE the issue- but NOT repairing the damage due to this issue. In other words they are looking at timing chains, and if worn they replace them- but thats it. Nobody is looking at rings, sleeves, bearings, etc. Just fix the injectors, a few other parts that are not really wear items.....and give them back with a fresh coat of spray on wax and a gift from the accessory shop.

I would say that a higher mileage car which has the horrifically poor BMW service schedules will be more likely to have issues long term. Why do you think BMW has reduced the oil change interval? What damage did engines sustain during the first 30k, 50k, or 81k of their lives under the original BMW oil change intervals?
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  #13  
Old 02-18-2015, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
See, and for this issue with the N63, the higher mileage cars would be MORE susceptible to my way of thinking.

You need to understand BMW is replacing the parts that CAUSE the issue- but NOT repairing the damage due to this issue. In other words they are looking at timing chains, and if worn they replace them- but thats it. Nobody is looking at rings, sleeves, bearings, etc. Just fix the injectors, a few other parts that are not really wear items.....and give them back with a fresh coat of spray on wax and a gift from the accessory shop.

I would say that a higher mileage car which has the horrifically poor BMW service schedules will be more likely to have issues long term. Why do you think BMW has reduced the oil change interval? What damage did engines sustain during the first 30k, 50k, or 81k of their lives under the original BMW oil change intervals?
Well hello to you too ard, thanks for the lecture?

I don't think either one of us can say whether the engine in the X Tim is looking at is within spec or out of spec without looking at BMWs warranty history on the N63 and a number of other things - the timing chain issues seem to be caused by a lot of stop and go traffic (or so someone said), and it was my understanding the engine runs hot, hence the more frequent oil changes.

Do you know exactly what BMW is analyzing when they hook the car into ISTA/D and send the data via a PUMA case? I don't know, and I'm sure that's proprietary information that a class action lawyer would love to get their hands on.

Having said that, I don't know how this particular vehicle was driven, a 2011 with 80k+ seems to me would be a lot of highway miles, but I don't know.

Chris
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  #14  
Old 02-18-2015, 02:01 PM
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A lawyer can easily get that information, there is nothing proprietary about it. That information would need to be disclosed under the discovery phase.

The dealer checks certain parts and see what revision it is, if they are below a certain revision, they get replaced. They are also just replacing some parts without any checking; these parts are not something you could easily check or just not worth the time and expense of checking them for what the replacement runs. Then there are parts like the timing chain where BMW is making the decision on if it gets replaced or not and that information is coming from a diagnostic test procedure.

If you want an 50i, I would make sure the dealer performs the work first and then you see what needed to be replaced or get the service records and see when parts were replaced. Not every vehicle had injector issues but BMW is replacing injectors that are below revision 11. So if you find a 50i that does have long cranks, burning oil or blowing white smoke out the back but has the original injectors, then chances are it was a good one. If the timing chains are not required either, then it was most likely well cared for.
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Old 02-18-2015, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris F. View Post
Well hello to you too ard, thanks for the lecture?

I don't think either one of us can say whether the engine in the X Tim is looking at is within spec or out of spec without looking at BMWs warranty history on the N63 and a number of other things - the timing chain issues seem to be caused by a lot of stop and go traffic (or so someone said), and it was my understanding the engine runs hot, hence the more frequent oil changes.

Do you know exactly what BMW is analyzing when they hook the car into ISTA/D and send the data via a PUMA case? I don't know, and I'm sure that's proprietary information that a class action lawyer would love to get their hands on.

Having said that, I don't know how this particular vehicle was driven, a 2011 with 80k+ seems to me would be a lot of highway miles, but I don't know.

Chris
Sorry, I tend to come off like that...

I took a position purposefully...in fact I always tend to take a 'worst case' view.... BMW dealers, car salesmen, etc...and even members here will post "most likely". Or worse, "what we hope" or "what BMW tells us". So to counter that mindset I try to present the worst case and what a buyer/owner needs to consider or protect themselves from.


Anyway, nobody is talking about the real truths behind this N63 action. Everyone seems excited about 'new parts'.... BMW doesnt take a $$millions hit for 'customer satisfaction'. IMO there is a real and major risk here, which is why they took action. I think the critical failure mode is: rich running>>>reduced oil lubrication due to fuel shear & long BMW change intervals>>engine wear>>>chain wear (aka "stretch"). Is it injectors? is it MAFs? And I think you are correct that PUMA develops an assessment of cause when they read multiple parameters- injector timing, cam/valve timing, lot numbers, etc.
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  #16  
Old 02-18-2015, 04:48 PM
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I hear you ard, I agree, nobody likes to hear bad news, and the reality is that BMW has a line to walk - they want to make as much money as they can, and the less money they spend on existing cars the better off they are.

I think part of this 'customer satisfaction campaign' is to ward off a class action similar to the HPFP fiasco. BMW was really stubborn on that one, and I'm glad we got something out of that.

Not to pontificate here, but the reality is that all of these companies are pushing product out the door too quickly, without enough R&D/testing done. It isn't just BMW, it's just about every car company. A car is a dangerous place to cut corners.

I know people like to assume the better, I think that is human nature, especially when you are talking about the high dollar prices of these cars. To some it might be a drop in the bucket, to me its a lot of money. Especially on used cars, it's worth doing your due diligence to make sure you aren't knowingly walking into problems. Even then, initial warranty history doesn't predict the future...

Chris
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  #17  
Old 02-20-2015, 06:59 PM
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Great info ARD and Chris.

The two that I am considering had more than the required number of oil changes, which is good. Both have good service history with BMW (My good friend is a Master BMW tech so we looked up the records). So with fingers crossed I hope to have something under contract next week.

Heck and true to my form I am looking at mods already......It's a sickness I tell ya!
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