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-   -   Rear-drive in snow.. (https://xoutpost.com/off-topic/lounge/17849-rear-drive-snow.html)

phuksi 07-21-2006 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bavarian
Rear drive in snow is DEADLY.

I had a 330i a while ago as you know. It had DSC and all those other useless gizmos. It also had a dedicated new set of winter tires.

Despite that, the rear came out on basically every corner and I had real trouble starting from a red light in snow. Thank god it was automatic cuz it could start in 2nd. You can do that with manual, too I know. But manual is too difficult.

Anyway, RWD is deadly.

:thumbup: I just find it difficult to find an affordable new rear wheel drive you can use 12 months / year. It is close to MB / BMW that are your options. I never had a problem with my E46 (see where Finland is located in the map :)). The DSC is very advanced and even without... With manual you have a lot better control of what will happen and is going on.

- p

Boston X5 4.4 07-21-2006 10:01 AM

rwd in winter
 
My last car was a '03 330ci.
I had dedicated snows and it was not terrible - especially with DSC and being a a manual. However, I live and work in Boston so the streets are cleared pretty quickly after it snows.
It was definitely not as good as AWD. If there was a lot of snow on the ground I parked it and took the subway and I would not like to plan any long distance trips in winter new england in a rwd even with snow tires.
I do miss it though - it was WAY more fun to drive than the X.

Eric5273 07-21-2006 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebound
That's why I never understood the theory that FWD was better because there was "more" weight on the fronts...

Stupidity reared its head a great deal in those years.

FWD is better in slipper conditions for one major reason: the power is being applied to the wheels that are doing the steering.

To explain in a little more detail, if you are driving down a curvy road in the snow, there are obviously times that some of your 4 tires are going to lose traction. In a RWD car, the power is going to the rear wheels which are pointing straight at all times. So if your front tires lose traction, you will simply go straight off the road. In a FWD car, when you turn the front wheels to go around a curve, the power being applied is being pointed in the direction you want to go.

Of course if you have a good set of snow tires, then there is less chance of losing traction in your front wheels. But all things being equal, FWD is better in the snow.

rebound 07-21-2006 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273
FWD is better in slipper conditions for one major reason: the power is being applied to the wheels that are doing the steering.

To explain in a little more detail, if you are driving down a curvy road in the snow, there are obviously times that some of your 4 tires are going to lose traction. In a RWD car, the power is going to the rear wheels which are pointing straight at all times. So if your front tires lose traction, you will simply go straight off the road. In a FWD car, when you turn the front wheels to go around a curve, the power being applied is being pointed in the direction you want to go.

Of course if you have a good set of snow tires, then there is less chance of losing traction in your front wheels. But all things being equal, FWD is better in the snow.

Yes, and when you "overpower" your driving wheels in a FWD car, bingo! You've just lost steering as well. Again, learned to drive in Michigan in the winter, in both FWD and RWD cars. I'll take a RWD car every time, with or without DSC. Auto or manual.

JCL 07-22-2006 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curious Joel
I mean under acceleration.. Doesn't the weight shift rearward, putting it over the drive wheels?

Rearward weight shift due to acceleration, while true in theory, would happen after you accelerated, or started to accelerate. So, that meant you already had traction. If you are getting additional traction due to rearward weight shift, almost by definition, you don't need it. Accelerating slowly (like when you are on snow) won't produce any significant weight transfer, IMO.

The weight shift that does matter is while climbing a hill, at least if you are going forward. The best traction of all in that situation is a front wheel drive car, backing up a hill.

JCL 07-22-2006 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebound
Yes, and when you "overpower" your driving wheels in a FWD car, bingo! You've just lost steering as well. Again, learned to drive in Michigan in the winter, in both FWD and RWD cars. I'll take a RWD car every time, with or without DSC. Auto or manual.

I don't think the issue is overpowering the front tires, it is in fact more likely to be that they are being underpowered when the car is sliding out of control.

In a RWD car, the usually correct action is to lift on the throttle when starting to slide or understeer in snow. In a FWD car it is more important to keep the power on so as to not upset the balance of the car when approaching traction limits. FWD got a bad rap because drivers used to RWD almost always lifted at the onset of a skid, thus reducing the traction on the front wheels, and hastening their trip into the ditch.

Watch old videos of Erik Carlsson with a Saab on a rally circuit. He had some amazing tricks.

I spent some years driving a Saab 99 and later a 900, (fwd), and also a Volvo (rwd). They had similar power and weight, and similar (narrow) 15" tires. It made for interesting comparisons of driving techniques in snow. Both did well, but each required a very different technique.

DINANM3 07-22-2006 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bavarian
Rear drive in snow is DEADLY.

I had a 330i a while ago as you know. It had DSC and all those other useless gizmos. It also had a dedicated new set of winter tires.

Despite that, the rear came out on basically every corner and I had real trouble starting from a red light in snow. Thank god it was automatic cuz it could start in 2nd. You can do that with manual, too I know. But manual is too difficult.

Anyway, RWD is deadly.

What the hell are you talking about?
what were you drince in 2 ft of snow?
Any experienced driver here will agree with me that your statement is 100% false

dwathen 07-22-2006 09:43 PM

I had a 325 that was horrible in snow or ice..I couldnt drive it. Stick with the x if you drive in snow..I couldnt even get up my driveway in teh snow and its not that steep..

DINANM3 07-23-2006 03:04 PM

yea but what tires did you have on.

Bavarian 07-23-2006 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DINANM3
What the hell are you talking about?
what were you drince in 2 ft of snow?
Any experienced driver here will agree with me that your statement is 100% false

dwathen also seems to share my opinion. Maybe you should stop trying to act like the authority on driving. There are other people which don't share your opinion and/or don't even appreciate what you write.


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