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:thud: Is it time for WWW yet??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Not true. There have been many battles between the Palestinean Authority and Hamas over the years. The most recent one was last year:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...a-future_x.htm

Here is an article that appeared in Executive Intelligence Review in January 2002 discussing the origins of Hamas:

Israeli Roots of Hamas Are Being Exposed

by Dean Andromidas

Speaking in Jerusalem Dec. 20, U.S. Ambassador to Israel Daniel Kurtzer made the connection between the growth of the Islamic fundamentalist groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and Israel's promotion of the Islamic movement as a counter to the Palestinian nationalist movement. Kurtzer's comments come very close to EIR's own presentation of the evidence of Israel's instrumental role in establishing Hamas, and its ongoing control of that organization.

Kurtzer said that the growth of the Islamic movement in the Palestinian territories in recent decades—"with the tacit support of Israel"—was "not totally unrelated" to the emergence of Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their terrorist attacks against Israel. Kurtzer explained that during the 1980s, when the Islamic movement began to flourish in the West Bank and Gaza, "Israel perceived it to be better to have people turning toward religion rather than toward a nationalistic cause [the Palestinian Liberation Organization—ed.]." It therefore did little to stop the flow of money to mosques and other religious institutions, rather than to schools.

According to the Dec. 21 Israeli daily Ha'aretz, Kurtzer made these extraordinary statements at a seminar on religion and politics sponsored by Oz V'Shalom-Netivot Shalom, a largely Anglo-American organization that promotes peace between Israelis and Palestinians. Rabbi Dr. Aharon Lichtenstein, the head of Har Etzion Yeshiva in Alon Shvut, who is an active advocate of a just regional peace, also spoke. Kurtzer said that as a result of the growth of Islam at the expense of education, there are now Palestinians who are "determined terrorists that use religious beliefs in a perverted way to appeal to the masses."

Kurtzer said that cultural and religious interaction is potentially a way to "build bridges." But instead, "the perverted use of religion in the region is today becoming one of the great challenges for the years ahead." He said that there is no "inherent component" in Islam that advocates violence. But one of the five principles of Islam, jihad—resistance—"in classic religious associations connotes religious belief and fervor, not violence." But extremists have distorted the meaning of jihad, so it now has a connotation of violence in the service of a religious purpose.

The Enemy of My Enemy is My Friend

This statement is extraordinary given the fact that Kurtzer is a very senior diplomat, having held the post of Ambassador to Egypt just prior to going on to Tel Aviv. He is also an Orthodox Jew who is not shy of criticizing the extreme anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic views held by certain Arab circles. But Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon rarely grants the United States' highest representative in Israel an official audience.

The ambassador's comments are an acknowledgment of what any serious Middle East observers knows: Hamas has always been seen as a tool by which Israel could undermine the nationalist movement led by Palestinian Authority President and Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Chairman Yasser Arafat. Similar statements by Arafat have been dismissed by Israel as "cranky" propaganda. In an interview with the Dec. 11 Italian daily Corriere della Sera, Arafat said, "We are doing everything to stop the violence. But Hamas is a creature of Israel which at the time of Prime Minister [Yitzhak] Shamir [the late 1980s, when Hamas arose], gave them money and more than 700 institutions, among them schools, universities and mosques. Even [former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak] Rabin ended up admitting it, when I charged him with it, in the presence of [Egpytian President Hosni] Mubarak."

There's more, but I'm not going to post the whole article. The Israeli government did the same thing in the Palestinean territories as we were doing in Afghanistan at the time. Islamic exremism flourished during the 1980s and 1990s in Gaza, the West Bank, and in Afghanistan due to these policies. Our leaders were very short cited.

thats lovely but somehow i dont really see the fact that a "government" cant control its people they dont even condemn the actions, abas right now can have the Israeli soldiers released and yet ???????????????????? get my point... you are trying to defend something that is not defendable

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW X5

I didn't say that Abbas is on Israel's side. But he is certainly more moderate than Hamas and has had his fair share of battles with them, sometimes violent.

As for the soldiers being released, I'm sure if Israel is willing to release the Palestinean and Lebanese soldiers they are holding, then their soldiers will be released as well. You know there are hundreds of Palestinean and Lebanese soldiers who have been kidnapped by Israel over the past few years. Of course the American media never reports that. But a couple of Israeli soldiers get kidnapped and suddenly its the story of the century.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SANguru

so why don't you go to Iraq and work your diplomacy with them? Action speak louder than words and all we hear is bitchin from you and nothing to show for it.

That was funny Sang....I doubt he will be venturing there anytime soon.

Chris

Quote:

Originally Posted by SANguru

I am familiar. Are you still implying that you still believe in the conspiracy theories for 9/11?? You really need to get a grip on yourself. It's is clear who the offenders are in 9/11. And you being Jewish.. what does that have anything to do with something that happened 60 years ago?? don't tell me you still living in the past. You don't see me go crying about the japanese kicking our ass in WWII.

Sang: The Japanese cannot complain...Weird how this works isn't it? Yet it is O.K. for us to remember (forever) and be (constantly) reminded at every turn about other groups of oppressed people who were killed during the same time period.

can't believe this subject got 143 response. and X5 related thread got under 20. What a shame. Shame on you guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

I don't mind people bringing up the Nazis. In fact, there is a lot going on in the United States that is similar to what went on in Germany in the mid-1930s. The comparisons should definately be made.

Bringing them up is different than accusing me of being one. That surely does offend me.

You are absolutely a hypocrite. Someone brings up "Mein-Kampf" and you become (insert stereotypical Jewish name) Omar Goldstein and break-out the 'I'm offended' card and infer that the mere mention of something-German is anti-semitic.

You make me sick.

Don't look now, but this board revolves around a German-engineering...Do you even own a BMW? I can't possibly imagine how. Or, do you drive around with a sign proclaiming your Jewishness just so that the issue won't be confused.

You are absolutely Jewish when it suits your (loosely) agenda. Actually, stating that you have 'an agenda' infers credibility where none exists.

And let me guess...You'll now blame me for being anti-semitic just for raising these obvious points...

The only reason you brought up being Jewish is to side-track Sanguru when he called you out on your lack of credibility and sources.

You remind me of every fundamental (read: WACKO TERRORIST) who freaks out when someone mentions anything negative about Islam. In your case, someone made a mention of the Nazi party and you went into ACLU-mode.

Just leave your ethnicity/religious affiliation out of this altogether unless someone blatantly defames it or uses it against you. And you will know when that occurs. This board seems barely tolerant of your antics and seems to understand your M.O. when it comes to conspiracy theory. I've read everyone's post about you and you are the court jester when it comes to your presuppositions and assumptions (always lacking fact). You need not digress and pervert this forum into being anti-semitic just because you are short on credibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlacal

"Mein-Kampf" is a book that Adolph Hitler wrote in which he first described his "final solution" for the Jews. Someone implied that I am a fan of that book, and I take offense to that as should anyone whether they are Jewish or not. I was insulted not because the book was mentioned, but because it was implied that I was a fan of that book. It has nothing to do with being anti-German.

Using the race/religious persecution card...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

You're a joke. Nobody implied that you were a fan of Mein-Kampf.

You're making yourself look even worse by attempting to twist (lie about) what happened.

Go back and read your exchange with Sanguru. He didn't imply this at all.

And since I know he didn't imply this and you are conveniently using the racism/persecution card, I would have you banned if I were the moderator.

Chris

And Thats why your not :) Moderators don't throw around personal attacks because someones view point differs from someone else's, grow up