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I'm not sure if they are 'legislated' so to speak to have labor unions....

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGSTL

Successful large companies don't carry huge labor package burdens such as lifetime pension payments and retiree healthcare benefits. Instead, the employees contribute to their 401K's and do other saving/investment options.

Why can't the unions see that this old-school model no longer enables big companies to compete globally?

You are correct, but 401K's are not the answer either. Companies in Europe and Asia do not have to worry about pension plans or healthcare benefits at all, because the government in those countries takes care of these things. American companies are never going to be able to compete until the system changes. Even healthcare benefits for current workers are bankrupting these companies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGSTL

It seems simple to me - maybe too simple because I've never been in a union. The more you pack on the back of the mule, the slower he goes. Pretty soon he'll be unable to compete and will eventually fall down and die. We're seeing that slow death now.

It sounds like each round of negotions ratchets up the amount in the UAW package that the automaker has to carry, and it's not just salary.

Successful large companies don't carry huge labor package burdens such as lifetime pension payments and retiree healthcare benefits. Instead, the employees contribute to their 401K's and do other saving/investment options.

Why can't the unions see that this old-school model no longer enables big companies to compete globally?

I apologize if i offended any union folks - but IMO, the path the UAW has been on for decades will do nothing but seal the bankrupt fate of the US automakers. The pack gets heavier and heavier....

You're spot on.

It was the years of union demands for "cradle to grave" healthcare (sound familiar, Eric?) and the expectation of jobs for generations of families that truly broke the companies' backs. Of course, they bear some of the responsibility, as they didn't say "boo" to the unions when times were good, they just kept agreeing to their ridiculous demands for more and more in the new contracts.

Now the Big Three are reaping what they've sown (with the unions' help).

Stat of the day: For every 1 worker currently employed at GM there are 7 who are retired and supported with pension payments and healthcare.

Wow...

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGSTL

Stat of the day: For every 1 worker currently employed at GM there are 7 who are retired and supported with pension payments and healthcare.

That's why GM is called the "health and pensions" company by Clarkson. :rofl:

From today's Detroit Free Press (selected quotes):

Quote:

UAW members would rather be coming to work instead of reporting for strike duty, said Albert Creer, a 50-year-old worker at Pontiac Assembly, who took over the early morning strike shift for the overnighters like Davis.

But GM pushed the union too far, he said.

Polovich and Washington had never met before but quickly found they had one thing in common. Both are third-generation GM workers.

When she heard the news of a strike earlier that day, Washington said she drove to her local and asked what shift they needed filled. She wanted to be among the first to strike.

''It's part of my legacy,'' Washington said. In particular, she wanted to protect health care benefits for her mother, she said.

Polovich, who has 39 years with GM, went through a local strike 10 years ago. He was hoping to retire before another strike was called.

''I was so annoyed when this happened,'' Polovich said.

But he also pointed to legacy as a reason for signing up to picket the first night of the strike. He wanted to show his support for the union and UAW President Ron Gettelfinger, he said.

''Gettelfinger is in there fighting tooth and nail,'' Polovich said. ''I have to show him we're backing him. Without us, he's got nothing.''

He supports the strike, but it's no joke, Einheuser said. It's serious business that costs both workers and the company money. ''I'm a wise enough old man to know you don't laugh at your job,'' he said.

Clark and Davis agreed. Clark has 31 years with GM but has never been through a strike. She trusts the words of her UAW president who said Monday that the union had given enough to help GM.

In the past two years, the UAW has approved a health care deal and buyout programs to help save the company money.

''I'd rather be in there working,'' Clark said in the wee hours of the morning. ''But they take take take and what do we get? Nothing.''

Davis headed home Tuesday, somber and sleepy. If the strike carries on two or three weeks, people could start losing their cars and houses, he feared.

The strike is a necessary evil, he and his colleagues said. The UAW has to take a stand, Davis said.

''It's not that I like what's going on, but I'm proud of what I'm doing,'' he said.

Freep Link

Hey did anybody answer the question: Do car manufacturers in the US have to use Unions???

If not...fire em all :)

Good question, BigR.
I suspect that somewhere in the previous collective bargaining agreement, with GM/FoMoCo/Chrysler,
(a tome of thousands of pages), is some boilerplate about the hourly employees being represented by
the UAW and thus, the UAW group is the group of workers that work there...if that translates.

I'll skip doing a search to C&P union/strike breaking stuff historically, but I do have first hand knowledge
of seeing a large Donnelly printing plant being struck, locking out it's striking workers and bringing in several
hundred "scabs" to keep it running. Not sure GM could come up with 73,000 workers in a short time,
or wouldya wanna buy that Cadillac CTS as it first rolled off the live having been done by a horde of new hires
off the street?!

But, in a word, no...car mfg'ers do not have to employ only workers that are unionized or, represented by the UAW;
most, if not all of the "offshore mfg'ers" do not have much if any union representation and even less UAW representation.

If memory serves, some NUMMI plants and a Mitsubishi sub ass'bly plant has some UAW representation. The Toyota
plants have thus far escaped the UAW's greedy tentacles, but they have them in their sights, I'm sure.
My Qtr's up.
BR,mD

With that maybe the geniuses in that industry might want to move outside unions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by motordavid

Does anyone see the parallel here? You can't wein the pup from the pig once the suckling starts. There are too many sucklings and Mother Sow finally runs dry.

Now let's scale this model to National Healthcare. You may as well just throw our best-in-the-world doctors into a pit of quicksand. A slow death of our healthcare system from which we could never turn back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebound

From today's Detroit Free Press (selected quotes):

UAW members would rather be coming to work instead of reporting for strike duty, said Albert Creer, a 50-year-old worker at Pontiac Assembly, who took over the early morning strike shift for the overnighters like Davis.

But GM pushed the union too far, he said.

Polovich and Washington had never met before but quickly found they had one thing in common. Both are third-generation GM workers.

When she heard the news of a strike earlier that day, Washington said she drove to her local and asked what shift they needed filled. She wanted to be among the first to strike.

''It's part of my legacy,'' Washington said. In particular, she wanted to protect health care benefits for her mother, she said.

Polovich, who has 39 years with GM, went through a local strike 10 years ago. He was hoping to retire before another strike was called.

''I was so annoyed when this happened,'' Polovich said.

But he also pointed to legacy as a reason for signing up to picket the first night of the strike. He wanted to show his support for the union and UAW President Ron Gettelfinger, he said.

''Gettelfinger is in there fighting tooth and nail,'' Polovich said. ''I have to show him we're backing him. Without us, he's got nothing.''

He supports the strike, but it's no joke, Einheuser said. It's serious business that costs both workers and the company money. ''I'm a wise enough old man to know you don't laugh at your job,'' he said.

Clark and Davis agreed. Clark has 31 years with GM but has never been through a strike. She trusts the words of her UAW president who said Monday that the union had given enough to help GM.

In the past two years, the UAW has approved a health care deal and buyout programs to help save the company money.

''I'd rather be in there working,'' Clark said in the wee hours of the morning. ''But they take take take and what do we get? Nothing.''

Davis headed home Tuesday, somber and sleepy. If the strike carries on two or three weeks, people could start losing their cars and houses, he feared.

The strike is a necessary evil, he and his colleagues said. The UAW has to take a stand, Davis said.

''It's not that I like what's going on, but I'm proud of what I'm doing,'' he said.

Freep Link