Whether you're for or against saving GM and the American automotive industry, that doesn't change the fact that the economy will worsen without them.

The economy will worsen period. Eventually a new company will start and hopefully make decent cars and not have to ask for tax payer handouts to line the pockets of CEO's who have their own jets. Our economic problem is the government's own doing by not regulating industries, particularly banking, better (or at all). It's happened many times before and they haven't learned the lessons... or rather it makes them rich so they are not going to change anything. Watch "Trillion Dollar Bet"

Mini announced 850 layoffs today in the UK. Frankly I'd rather bail out that brand since at least they manufacture a product that I'd be willing to buy. GM, Ford, Chrysler have not produced a car I'd consider buying so far during my lifetime....and I'm a car guy!

If all those "shit companies" made cars that "you liked",
would you have more of an interest in seeing one or,
some of the US based car manufacturers survive in some
form or another?

Didn't you just answer your own question? If they made cars people (myself included) wanted to buy, they wouldn't be going bankrupt.

I was quoting you, in the quotes...those were not my words.
Skip the quibbling. I am surprised at your attitude toward
a major industry and employer, (and not just those overpaid
UAW guys in the plants.)

Maybe you have some clairvoyance as to how that "new company"
will arise that makes cars you like. Or, how the demise of a GM, Chrysler,
et al, as a US company with its myriad of suppliers, will help the current
economic situation.

Okay then, what is your artificial criteria for deciding what companies should or should not be saved? Hell, why not just save all of them! Tell the government to keep printing more money so that they value of your dollar hits your 0.02 and slap a hammer and sickle on the flag while you're at it.

mgruber...we have had pages of threads on this and similar topics.
I am not an opponent of Chap 11 BK for any of the companies,
including GM, et al.

With the trillions placed in various companies, (mostly "financial"), and maybe trillions
more to come, the gov't is already printing more money than can ever be "covered".

I have no personal or, "artificial criteria for deciding what companies should or should not
be saved"; I do think letting Lehman go bust was a mistake and, that the "results" thus far,
for AIG, et al, and the "banks", both investment versions and real versions, has the jury still out.

If this process works, we will be better off, or will have missed the killer comet...if it does not,
it probably won't matter what kinds of cars any of us like, as it will be a considerably less
comfortable situation in the future, than any of us have ever experience.

My original point here, and in other similar threads is this: if Chap 11 BK is necessary for
companies, (as it seems to be for dozens by the month), it should be better for "everyone" in
the long, long run.

But, I do not participate in the venomous approach that companies of the car mfg'ers size and
product, and all their ancillary suppliers of all stripes, should literarly go out of biz, without some
serious guidance and fiscal chances. If that guidance requires 11 BK, so be it...I simply don't subscribe
to the "let 'em burn" epithet because I don't like Saturns or HemiTrucks or...

Not sure about the hammer & sickle ref, but I can see you are exercised about the topic. The central banks,
of most industrialized countries, are making moves to catch and stave off a near fatal situation;
it is not "communism", imo.


But, Good luck. Hope things work out to your satisfaction.

Well put. My comment was overly harsh, more driven by some recent reading. The tax payer is getting screwed to no end and I don't think people fully realize that fact. Paulson frightened congress shitless to pass a poorly drafted pot of gold that was quickly emptied and nothing got better, lots got worse, and no one knows exactly where the hell all the dough went. Meanwhile he's gone, banks are not making lending easier to anyone, let alone their best customers and now company after company is suddenly in trouble "this quarter" (seemingly at least) and "too big to be allowed to fail." Quite frankly they see a sucker government that is willing to dump money on the fire which just like the bank bailout, will only benefit the high ranking CEO's and nothing fundamentally will change. Lehman collapsed and they deserved to and I'm glad they weren't bailed out. I say make an example out of someone, let GM collapse and I'm sure in 5 years no one will miss them.

I agree...we are pretty close to reading off the same page;
we just started at different points in the chapter. ;)
BR,mD

You're right. Cheers!