And I've discovered at two different red light camera locations, that if you drive at a reasonable speed from the preceding traffic light which has turned green, the following traffic light is timed just such that you will have to jam on your brakes, or speed up to beat the red. But if you're driving moderately, that red will catch you every time. And I'm sure ATS literally "banks" on the fact that most NYC drivers will run the light.

Now when I'm approaching the intersection and the Dont Walk signs are flashing, I now instinctively scan the area for the overhead or roadside pole-mounted cameras.

:iagree: That's exactly what I wanted to say earlier, but you broke it down in a more detailed manner. Are you referring to the West Side Highway, in the 40s and 50s?? That's where I got caught "between a rock and a hard place" in just the situation you described above! It's designed like a perfect trap. I cannot imagine how many thousands of $$$ that small stretch of highway brings to NYC DOT every day.

No there's a camera capturing people proceeding eastbound on 110th st when they cross the light at Manhattan Av. The timing at the previous light (Columbus, I think??) has you right at the light on a red. Also further uptown on Dyckman St right before the entrance to the Harlem River Drive. The preceding light has you making a left or right from Nagle Avenue and proceeding east to an ALMOST red light.

Again, if you drive at a reasonable speed, you will be at the light just as it turns red. I'm sure 75% of the lights are strategically timed.

Traffic Light Signals and Red Light Cameras

6. Red light cameras

Red light cameras are sometimes used to catch those who run red lights, but they are expensive and misuse means disasters. Red light cameras at low level may be on a low pole. Red light cameras at high level may be on a horizontal structure. Certain red light cameras also attempt to photograph drivers in addition to vehicles, but drivers covering their faces may defeat this attempt. Red light cameras often have common <A href="http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersections/rlrcam_tech.htm">grace periods of 0.3 second or 0.5 second internationally and a minimum speed of 15 to 20 miles per hour ((24 to 32) km/h) to activate the system.
Reciprocal links:Community Traffic Safety Team Pasco CountyTransportation Alternatives Message Board: "Red light" surveillance cameras6.1. Critical decision upon a yellow light6.2. Traffic engineering and green and red light timers versus red light cameras6.2.1. The Internationale versus tyrannical red light cameras6.2.2. A patriotic speech for the United States6.3. How may red light cameras increase crimes?6.4. Sample electronic mails6.5. Locations with red light cameras6.1. Critical decision upon a yellow light

Drivers far from a yellow light must stop. Drivers near a yellow light must keep going if unable to stop safely. However, there is a grey zone that may be regarded as either too close or too far from a light where drivers must make a critical decision. A red light camera may force them to stop too quickly and risk rear-ended or to keep going and risk running a red light. This is especially dangerous for large vehicles. Combination of pre-timed traffic light signals and red light cameras is extremely bad because it disregards traffic facing a yellow light and being in the grey zone described above. Combination of short yellow lights and red light cameras is the evilest speed trap.

Here in SC I remember a case where someone fought a ticket for running a red light (no camera) and won because they took a video of the traffic light with a stop watch timing the length of the yellow. It was proven that the yellow was much shorter than all surrounding lights, including the opposing light. I think they also used an old law/rule that said a yellow must be a minimum x seconds long. I can't seem to find that using google.

I found this: look under section 5.3.2 for the full details

Traffic Signal Timing Manual: Chapter 5 - Office of Operations

Yellow Change

The duration of the yellow change interval is typically based upon driver perception-reaction time, plus the distance needed to safely stop or to travel safely through the intersection.
A state’s Uniform Vehicle Code directly affects yellow change interval timing, as it determines whether a permissive or restrictive yellow law is in place.

• Permissive Yellow Law: A driver can enter the intersection during the entire yellow interval and be in the intersection during the red indication as long as the vehicle entered the intersection during the yellow interval. Under permissive yellow law, an all-red clearance interval must exist as a timing parameter to ensure safe right-of-way transfer at an intersection. This rule is consistent with paragraph 11-202 of the Uniform Vehicle Code (9).
• Restrictive Yellow Law: There are two variations of this law (10). In one variation, a vehicle may not enter an intersection when the indication is yellow unless the vehicle can clear the intersection by the end of yellow. This implies that the yellow duration should be sufficiently long as to allow drivers the time needed to clear the intersection if they determine that it is not possible to safely stop. In the other variation, a vehicle may not enter an intersection unless it is impossible or unsafe to stop. With restrictive yellow law, the presence of an all-red interval is optional and good engineering judgment should be applied.

Due to the varying interpretations of the yellow change use, it is encouraged that traffic engineers refer to the local and regional statutes for guidance in determining the purpose of the yellow change time.

A relevant post from last year:

red light cameras actually increase the number and severity of crashes

Yup. I once came to a stop at the crosswalk where there is a well known red-light camera. The car in the lane directly to my right was going much faster than me and jammed on her brakes to keep from getting a ticket. The car behind her was going just as fast but did not anticipate her stopping for the light. In the blink of an eye, the woman that'd stopped next to me's car was displaced by the car behind it. She was rammed right into the intersection.

Hey... I wonder did she get a ticket... :rofl:

That is exactly how 400 is here in Atlanta. Really, the only toll road we have, thank God.

jsears, sounds like you really got screwed with a short yellow like a few people have said. At least this will not go on your record though.

I have a TomTom GPS and it alerts me everytime I approach an intersection with a red light camera. It seems to work pretty well and I just pay extra attention in those situations.

Next time you go through an intersection with a camera, just put both of your middle fingers up againt the windshield and then you will atleast have a great photo to show your friends. :D :thebird::thebird: