Enough is enough..I QUIT BMW! - Page 4

Mackskibum · #31 03-20-2006, 10:27 AM

MD, thanks for the reply. Even a generic respnse with a contact name would be nice, since if they respond, they have started a file.

I probably should have mentioned in my post that we all need to understand that it was probably a problem that sent us looking for a BBS like X5world in the first place. We will probably see a higher concentration of problems than the general public.

SANguru- to respond to your Honda Odyssey issue- from a sheer number standpoint, Honda probably sells more Odyssey minivans than BMW sells ALL MODELS worldwide. What about the Accord, Civic, Pilot and all the Acura brands? Very reliable all. (They are also all what I would call "vanilla" cars- no personality) The issue is should performace hounds like us have to endure the BS repetitive failures on vehicles that cost $45-$70K just to have the opportunity to drive a vehicle like this? I don't think so. Any brand has issues. It is how those issues are corrected that matters.

For example: I owned a 2002 GMC Yukon with the 5.3 engine. There is a website related to people with engine knock issues. All I had to do to solve my problem was call GM, (of course they said there was no issue with engine life) and argue a bit. At the end of the conversation they extended the powertrain warranty to 100K miles at no charge. They had a program to deal with the problem, and by the 2003 model year, the knock was gone- engineered out of their 5.3 engine.

I can't tell you how many times I have been to the dealer for misc. BS parts, and find that they suggest additional BS parts to make sure you can correct the problem. Reference my tail light replacement from the earlier post- I went in for a bulb, they asked had I looked at the contacts on the assembly. If they know, BMW has to know. How many have changed plugs and discovered that you need a connector or two. Has anyone ever been doing an oil change and bumped the coolant recovery hose/tube and broken it on a Saturday evening? Some rocket scientist at BMW chose a plastic material that becomes brittle with heat and exposure to air and then decided to run hot coolant through it.

Then there's other stuff like the fact that there is no diagram in the owners manual or under the hood that shows the proper serpentine belt routing. You're in middle Tennessee and the serpp belt lets go. Skip the tow truck driver shows up with a belt in hand, but can't install it because there is no sticker that shows the routing.

I may be in the small percentage here that bought a BMW because I always though they were better built than other makes. A car is a major appliance for me, designed to get me from A to B quicker than walking. Unfortunately I am afflicted with a go-fast bug that prefers cars that handle well. Cars I drive every day are not personal to me, or a lifestyle decision. I don't carry a BMW key ring or wear their clothes. I don't take photos of my car in the snow, sun, rain, or flood. I drive it. Alot. I expect it to last, and be relatively trouble free if I take care of it.

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crosvs · #32 03-20-2006, 11:20 AM

don't get me wrong: i'm not saying honda, lexus, etc. DON'T have issues. I'm just saying that, strictly speaking, if you look at consumer reports, for instance, they generally have FAR LESS than any of the german cars.

that said, someone above pointed out how BMW saved his life and did it while looking good, and that's certainly a hugely important point (the saving life bit lol) -- in fact i've read (twice, now) that the x5 is not only the safest suv ever tested, but the safest VEHICLE of ANY KIND tested.

i'm still with bmw =)

Bavarian · #33 03-20-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DINANM3

Well put and in BMWs defense it wasnt just a new model year it was the introduction of a first time ever brand new model. they have never done suvs before and also mercedes had a couple of years on them with the ML and everyone i know with an ML absolutely hates them. and say that they are junk.

Those are strong words, I must say. I, for one, like the ML very much. I like the way it rides, I like the trunk space (like 3 times that of X5), I like the sound system. It's light-years ahead of anything BMW offers, except for the Logic7. I like the power delivery of the 5L V8. I like the solar glass - don't need to tint the fronts! I also really like the seats - they're not hard like on the Bimmer. Also Benz provides some very sturdy cupholders in the right place! Oh, and the throttle response is far more "instant" than on the Bimmer - I don't get the "hesitation" effect. And no, my X5 wasn't a bad apple - I've had the dealer look at the throttle before.

The truth is that BMW makes the X5 so it drives like a massive car. I don't think I want that in an SUV. I want the SUV to float on the road, and glide over bumps. If I wanted to ride like a car, I'd pick up a 3-series in a jiffy. This is simply what makes me happy, and the ML delivers.

I'm not gonna tell you that the ML is a superior vehicle, or vice versa. Simply that I enjoy it more. It is my opinion, and defintely not something I'm trying to make someone else believe into. For some people, the X5 makes them most happy, some the ML, others a simple Toyota RAV4. And that's cool!

x5user · #34 03-20-2006, 11:25 AM

I like my X5 a lot. But I disappointed with their quality little bit. I have to agree with Mackskibum that you can get a lot more with that much money from Acura, Infiniti, Lexus etc.... Good luck with you.

rayxi · #35 03-20-2006, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x5user

I like my X5 a lot. But I disappointed with their quality little bit. I have to agree with Mackskibum that you can get a lot more with that much money from Acura, Infiniti, Lexus etc.... Good luck with you.

A lot more of what? What you get is a different bag of features and problems. There isn't a manufacturer out there that offers more of everything for a given market segment.

Roc3b · #36 03-20-2006, 01:52 PM

ahem....I've been there and done that...this post sums up the issues I had with my 01...except they all happened in about a 4 month period...I think that really BMW, much like Harley Davidson knows the patrons will pay...what is really going to make them have to look at quality? Cars sitting on the lots...since that is never going to happen they just keep churning them out they way they are, not to mention the margins on parts for the overall bottome line....as they say...it is what it is.

Mackskibum · #37 03-20-2006, 04:29 PM

I think a couple of you missed my point. X5user and rayxi- my point is not that there are problems- you are both correct that every make has problems- it is that the same problems have been present since '99 when the X5 was introduced. If you read the posts on this forum, you will find people that have the same issues with '00-'05 X5's- BMW has not addressed the issues that are very common. We have to assume it is acceptable to them to have these issues. When you walk into a dealer with an issue and they are able to tell you that they have plenty of parts in stock for your problem, then generally it is a common issue. On the list of things that I posted earlier I will use these examples:

Rear hatch electrical problem: This presented itself in Jan '03 and was already known as a common problem- no troubleshooting required, but no recall. Every X5 built to that point will need this repair at some point if exposed to moisture regularly- no recall campaign.

Dash cluster pixel issue: This is so well known that there are businesses that have sprung up just to deal with the repairs when out of warranty. BMW used to supply new clusters, now they reman the poor design they have.

Peeling door handles (interior): This is so common that dealers stock the interior parts to repair, but no design change on the new parts.

Frozen locks: should have been a recall for safety- it is possible that you may not be able to get out of the vehicle if the windows are frozen in the up position as well.

Roc3b has a point- many BMW owners are similar to Harley owners- they are extremely passionate about the marque and tend to overlook the shortcomings (Honda makes a superior motorcycle based on quality and rideability, but Harley owners don't mind the shortcomings so they can say they got the t-shirt). You can read this in the posts on this BB anytime someone is completely fed up- many responses don't address the problems, they defend the brand by saying things like "it was a first year try at a new vehicle type". When I walk in with $60K, I want more than a try, I want good, tested, refined product.

For the record, I am looking at replacements, and I have not eliminated BMW from the list.

Here's the current list of possibilities:

BMW 330XI (the bread and butter car has to be more reliable than the X right?)
Audi A4 or A6 quattro
Acura RL (their only AWD sedan)
Infiniti G35X or M35X

I would consider Mercedes, but the brand causes potential customer issues for me.

One other truth about car purchases: Very few people will admit they made a $50,000 mistake when the bought their Whatever. It is always the greatest thing and they love it.

Again, just my opinions.

rayxi · #38 03-20-2006, 05:20 PM

Mack, (I'm assuming your name isn't Ski or Bum

) the problems you point out are indeed well known and frequently discussed. My point is that one cannot categorically damn one marque for its set of problems that you cannot live with and praise another marque because it has a different set of problems that you are willing to live with.

I'd buy a Lexus for their reliability, luxury, resale etc. if I could live with the pedestrian driving experience and styling. But I can't. At the same time, I'm not damning Lexus products. I think they make excellent products for their target market segments. I'm just not in those market segments. (Though the new IS350 might be appealing if they offered it with a manual tranny.)

It also comes down to your expectations when buying a particular vehicle. It reminds me of the Hummer owners who complain about the poor gas mileage. What were they expecting when buying that type of vehicle? I'm not advocating that Bimmer owners shut up and put up with these ongoing problems. But as long as my Bimmers meet my primary expectations (driving enjoyment, safety, styling ) I'm not willing to trade marques for a vehicle that fails to meet them.

I might add that I have not experienced any of the listed problems except one window regulator (warranty) on either of my Bimmers. Knock on wood.

Mackskibum · #39 03-20-2006, 06:30 PM

Ray, I agree with you related to the driving experience. My objection is more related to the commonality of issues coupled with the perception that it is tolerable to give up one strength for the other weakness. I agree- the Japanese have built a strong house based on vanilla reliability. Why should we have to give up reliability to drive a vehicle with tremendous road manners? That is the end question. I am not condemning the entire BMW marque, but is it wrong to expect a level of detail in a $60,000 vehicle? I believe that each marque chooses the niche they want to fill, and engineers product to that end. If Lexus wanted to build a fun, sporty vehicle with a racy personality, they could, and chances are it wouldn't give up the reliability that is their calling card. They choose not to. That's OK. Nowhere in any of the product literature for the X5 does it say "Be prepared for small problems and some general failures in our product. We know they are there, but the driving experience will make these issues fade away so fast you won't notice."

One of the issues I am wrestling with relates to the reliability of the 330XI. It is the first on my list of possibilities to replace the X5, but the '06 is a re-design. Second on the list right now is the G35X.

rayxi · #40 03-20-2006, 08:29 PM

Mack, I hear ya and agree in principle. But car manufacturers are not in business to make us happy. They are in business to get as much money from us as possible while spending the least amount of their money to do so. Attempting to make us happy is merely a business strategy, not a business objective.

Lexus could make a their cars perform close to BMW's and keep their reliability and quality levels. They choose not to because they'd make less money. BMW could fix most of the problems and still make enjoyable driver oriented cars. They choose not to because they'd make less money.

In the end you get what you pay for. We just have to decide what it is that we want since, unfortunately, we can't have it all. There may come a point where the BMW problems outweight the benefits but fortunately I haven't reached it yet.

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