New 3 series confusion! - Page 2

PersonaNonGrata · #1 04-17-2006, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xx3

I read a lot of E90post today...

I must say that now I am more confused then I ever was...

I say, wait for the 07' model if you can. No-one is really sure what is happening, and its hard to sift all the B.S. floating around...

Yup, that's why I am so confused too. There are many theories out there and BMW is holding its cards close. The CARB sheet mentioned above is informative but doesn't really tell us what BMW AG has up its sleeve. I am really thinking that the 330 will go bye-bye for MY '07.

Can I wait? Well, I can and I can't. My wife's car has a couple of buyers lined up and it's the sort of thing that we want to capitalize on to avoid advertising it, etc. If we sell it now we'll only have one car and that won't work. I would also like to get something soon so that we can get the most out of the tax write-off for this year.

I am waiting to hear back from the sales manager I'm working with. He said that BMW has not given them any information but he will try to find something out. I am now considering other options. I'm not keen on buying a 330 only to have it be a one MY car. I might even consider a 530 unless there is similar monkeying around with that model as well, as in a 535. Then there could be a 525, 530, 535, 550.

That's a whole other can of worms.

JCL · #2 04-17-2006, 02:45 AM

Well, this is just more speculation, but here is my take:

The 335 will run for a year in the coupe before it gets to the sedan. That is a way of limiting BMW's exposure to any new model bugs. Also, the E60 needs the 335 engine more than the E90 does, so look for it there.

The 323 that we got in Canada this year will make it to the US this coming year. No way that this is too many models, check out how many variants are available in the rest of the world.

The 325/330 will combine into the 328 this coming year. Pure guesswork here. It could take a year for this to happen to the sedan, until the 335 engine is in full production.

No one should own the first year of the 335. Those who haven't learned from history are doomed to repeat it.

Skip the CPO E46 M3. Yes, a great car, but it is now dated. It is going to get more dated.

Finally, even if the 330 disappears, it doesn't matter if you have one of the last of the 330s if you are leasing it. Great car, great engine. Someone else's depreciation problem. Available now. Buy it now.

Jeff

vinuneuro · #3 04-17-2006, 02:38 AM

You lightly mentioned leasing an E46 M3...is that not an option?

blondboinsd · #4 04-17-2006, 02:54 AM

They just introduced 2 new engines (215hp and 255hp) why would they kill them right away? make no sense to me! That will bring horrid depreciation too

JCL · #5 04-17-2006, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blondboinsd

They just introduced 2 new engines (215hp and 255hp) why would they kill them right away? make no sense to me! That will bring horrid depreciation too

In NA, the 325 and the 330 are the same engine with changes to software and the intake manifold. The 328 would be in the same vein. So, they wouldn't kill anything, just revise it slightly. Deck lid badges are cheap to design. And new models will drive new sales. BMW purchasers include a significant number of the 'got to have the latest and greatest' crowd, myself included.

vinuneuro · #6 04-17-2006, 03:36 AM

It would be odd to have 215 and 255 hp ratings for just 1-1.5 years. There will be a change to 323i and 328i, but I think the current 255hp rating will stand with the addition of the 335i and its new engine.

With the addition of the 323i and the future 1 series introduction to the NA market, BMW seems like it is serious about going after the whole 20k price range. I don't see any holes.

xx3 · #7 04-17-2006, 05:32 PM

btw, they unveiled the coupe on e90post yesterday. Well they caught spy pics of it totally naked !! It seems like the E90 has stiff competition versus the E92 (well for me at least!).

I agree with JCL, the 335 won't make it into the sedan the first year. Not only for reliability, but BMW will want to make it exclusive, and boost coupe sales any way they can. Then the next model year they can boost sedan sales by pushing in the 335 engine into the sedan. My guess is that the E90 will get another early model year, and start its life in March 07 as the 2008 3 Series. That way they can squeeze out some sales of the coupe, but not loose too many sales on the sedan (as the new G35 comes out in Nov)... Makes sense to me.

The 323 available in Canada still uses the E46 engine no? Wouldn't it make sense for BMW to upgrade this engine and then sell it to the U.S. market? BMW could then make the 323, 328 & 335i. But an actually attractive 323, instead of the current less then inspiring engine currently provided.

I believe there are going to be 3 models for the U.S. line-up. Someone made a point on E90 post about no 1 series sedan in the forseeable future, and without BMW ever bringing the 1 series hatch to the U.S., there would be a big hole at the very low end of the spectrum - enter the 323i. Then you could have the 2 series right above it, and then the 328i and 335i right above that. Essentially the 328i taking the 325i's slot and the 335i taking the 330i's slot with the 323 seriously undercutting both.

No-one really knows what BMW is up to, but it really is going to be interesting watching what happens over the next few months..!

Random idea, but maybe buy a car from the line-up that won't get hit bad and then switch over to the 335i? What about a CPO E46? Those won't take such a hit since they already took the launch of the E90. Maybe that IS isn't looking so bad right now... hahaha

PersonaNonGrata · #8 04-17-2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xx3

btw, they unveiled the coupe on e90post yesterday. Well they caught spy pics of it totally naked !! It seems like the E90 has stiff competition versus the E92 (well for me at least!).

I agree with JCL, the 335 won't make it into the sedan the first year. Not only for reliability, but BMW will want to make it exclusive, and boost coupe sales any way they can. Then the next model year they can boost sedan sales by pushing in the 335 engine into the sedan. My guess is that the E90 will get another early model year, and start its life in March 07 as the 2008 3 Series. That way they can squeeze out some sales of the coupe, but not loose too many sales on the sedan (as the new G35 comes out in Nov)... Makes sense to me.

The 323 available in Canada still uses the E46 engine no? Wouldn't it make sense for BMW to upgrade this engine and then sell it to the U.S. market? BMW could then make the 323, 328 & 335i. But an actually attractive 323, instead of the current less then inspiring engine currently provided.

I believe there are going to be 3 models for the U.S. line-up. Someone made a point on E90 post about no 1 series sedan in the forseeable future, and without BMW ever bringing the 1 series hatch to the U.S., there would be a big hole at the very low end of the spectrum - enter the 323i. Then you could have the 2 series right above it, and then the 328i and 335i right above that. Essentially the 328i taking the 325i's slot and the 335i taking the 330i's slot with the 323 seriously undercutting both.

No-one really knows what BMW is up to, but it really is going to be interesting watching what happens over the next few months..!

Random idea, but maybe buy a car from the line-up that won't get hit bad and then switch over to the 335i? What about a CPO E46? Those won't take such a hit since they already took the launch of the E90. Maybe that IS isn't looking so bad right now... hahaha

It is awfully confusing.

I can't obsess over it. I'm not too keen on the 335 because it's going to have problems. I will still not go with the IS 350 although for a fleeting moment it re-entered my mind. I actually placed my order for a 330 today. It's going to be a Week 17 build. No money has changed hands and if I don't want it someone will for sure.

Steved · #9 04-18-2006, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xx3

No-one really knows what BMW is up to, but it really is going to be interesting watching what happens over the next few months..!

There seems a lot of confusion principally on the US based forums where many consipracy theories abound. Here in Europe the thinking is much simpler. I haven't time to go back and search through BMW press statements but the 335i engine was developed to fit between the 330i and M3, they said that over a year ago. The 330i has only just been re-released with it's magnesium crankcase and improved induction so BMW have no plans to throw that R&D investment away. I presume the 325i will remain, So we have 325i, 330i and 335i, then M3 and above that a more powerful M3 CSL (but only in Coupe form).

The 335i engine will be fitted to all variants (saloon, coupe and touring) and whilst they may phase it in starting with the Coupe this will only be to allow for production to ramp-up, not for exclusivity. The E92 Coupe will sell for enough reasons without needing a unique engine. (although there was talk of the 335i engine in the Coupe being 20-30bhp more than in the saloon).

As for reliability, I forget that turbocharged BMWs are new to you guys in the States, for us they are not and it's a well proven technology that BMW have built considerable experience in over the past 10 years. The 335i adopts many of the technologies BMW have been using in their diesel engines so I would have no concerns about owning the first batch. We have a 3.0d engine in our family and it runs faultlessley.

So if you're thinking about leasing a 330i I would say go ahead. The 335i will be more expensive than the current 330i (about on a par with Audi's S4 - perhaps five thousand short of an E46 M3 price), and therefore the 330i will still be a very desirable mid-range model in the 3-series range.

BMW could of course do something completely different to what they've already told us, but they're Germans and that would be very unlikely.

We'll know more in 2 weeks time when the press embargo is over and details emerge.

PersonaNonGrata · #10 04-18-2006, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steved

There seems a lot of confusion principally on the US based forums where many consipracy theories abound. Here in Europe the thinking is much simpler. I haven't time to go back and search through BMW press statements but the 335i engine was developed to fit between the 330i and M3, they said that over a year ago. The 330i has only just been re-released with it's magnesium crankcase and improved induction so BMW have no plans to throw that R&D investment away. I presume the 325i will remain, So we have 325i, 330i and 335i, then M3 and above that a more powerful M3 CSL (but only in Coupe form).

The 335i engine will be fitted to all variants (saloon, coupe and touring) and whilst they may phase it in starting with the Coupe this will only be to allow for production to ramp-up, not for exclusivity. The E92 Coupe will sell for enough reasons without needing a unique engine. (although there was talk of the 335i engine in the Coupe being 20-30bhp more than in the saloon).

As for reliability, I forget that turbocharged BMWs are new to you guys in the States, for us they are not and it's a well proven technology that BMW have built considerable experience in over the past 10 years. The 335i adopts many of the technologies BMW have been using in their diesel engines so I would have no concerns about owning the first batch. We have a 3.0d engine in our family and it runs faultlessley.

So if you're thinking about leasing a 330i I would say go ahead. The 335i will be more expensive than the current 330i (about on a par with Audi's S4 - perhaps five thousand short of an E46 M3 price), and therefore the 330i will still be a very desirable mid-range model in the 3-series range.

BMW could of course do something completely different to what they've already told us, but they're Germans and that would be very unlikely.

We'll know more in 2 weeks time when the press embargo is over and details emerge.

All good points, sir. I hope to enjoy the 330 immensely.

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