Shame On You

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Originally Posted by Roc3b "Great, so Gman landed a nympho with a brain! Damn him!
Guinness you lucky son of a byotch!!!!!!!!!!!"

http://www.bmwcca.org
http://www.sunbeltbmwcca.org

My view changed when I listened to my friend talk (singer for The UnheardOf) about how it impacts the whole industry. Doesn't matter if you dl a song or an album, if it's Metallica or some no name... it affects the whole industry. Sales have plummeted due to downloading and bands like U2 can't even sell albums any more. Record industries are signing less bands every year, and crap and garbage keep saturating the market and radio. Makes it very difficult for upcoming bands or indy label bands to make big breaks.

But, that's not with this thread is about so I'll shut up now

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Originally Posted by Roc3b "Great, so Gman landed a nympho with a brain! Damn him!
Guinness you lucky son of a byotch!!!!!!!!!!!"

http://www.bmwcca.org
http://www.sunbeltbmwcca.org

Thats exactly what the iPod is. A small computer sold with the OS already loaded on it that plays music and other installed applications. So there is NO anti-trust violation. Fact is all players of this kind are Proprietary in some way so that they are not compatible across the board. The problem seems to be that the other companies who are trying to gain a foothold in the market are crying foul because they can't keep up. It's the law of the jungle to try to destroy the top dog and to often thats done by collaboration by those who don't have a foothold in the market. I understand the problem but in my view you beat the competition by delivering a product or (like VHS) you advertise your product to death so that others will be duped into thinking that your product is better than your competitor.

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"What you hear in a great jazz band is the sound of democracy. “The jazz band works best when participation is shaped by intelligent communication.”
Harmony happens whenever different parts get to form a whole by means of congruity, concord, symetry, consistency, conformity, correspondence, agreement, accord, unity, consonance…….

Thats because musicians are getting hip to the game and are refusing to let the Music companies rip them off

The reason for the crap and garbage is because the radio market is controlled by people who know nothing about music. This has been a bone of contention for years and as long as it continues we will continue to get crap and garbage. One can make a change though by listening to indepandant and public radio stations that keeps away from the national playlist.

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"What you hear in a great jazz band is the sound of democracy. “The jazz band works best when participation is shaped by intelligent communication.”
Harmony happens whenever different parts get to form a whole by means of congruity, concord, symetry, consistency, conformity, correspondence, agreement, accord, unity, consonance…….

Setting aside the iPod issue for a second, I wanted to bring up some points regarding proprietary systems which has always been at the forefront of Apple's marketing strategy since it's the very first Macintosh computer.

Some general statements:

Windows based programs can be run only on the Windows operating system which can be run on any brand computer designed to run the Windows OS, including Dell, HP, Gateway, Lenovo, Alien, home-built, etc.

Apple OS based programs can be run only on the Apple operating system which can be run only Apple computers. There are no other brands of Apple computers except Apple. There was a Apple clone company back in the early 80's, Franklin Computer, but Apple snuffed them in the courts.

The various gaming systems are better examples of proprietary systems that follow the Apple business model. A CD-rom made for the MS X-Box cannot be played on a Sony Playstation or vice-versa.

The question is whether or not the Apple business model is acceptable and justifiable to the consumer. Does the model injure the customer in any way? In my opinion, the answer is no. The customer has a right to choose buy Apple products and accept its business model or to purchase another brand if they disagee with the proprietary system concept.

I think the French are wrong, but after all, they are French. IMHO, these issues should not be regulated in the courts. I also do not believe that Apple's restriction of iTunes use for iPods is not associated with DRM rights, but more aligned with Apple's insistence to maintain proprietary ownership of anything marketed and sold under the Apple brand.

I own an iPod and I do use iTunes, both as a music organizer and to purchase music. I have no problems with it, and I am able to convert iTunes purchased music to MP3's using iTunes under the method I described in Michelle's thread.

The inherent limitations of a proprietary system will eventually cause its failure if those limitations cause customers to find other alternatives. Witness yesterday's announcement that AOL will no longer be a pay service, but instead offer its portal services for free. The proprietary nature of AOL - a development driven by what I'm sure is was a loss of customers using Yahoo, MSN, Google, and other free services.

So then give an example of what you would consider a violation of anti-trust laws?

Exact a mundo. Nobody but no body was paying Apple a bit of attention until they started to make some noise now it's HOLD ON YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!! You have to share with us.

I agree "The customer has a right to choose buy Apple products and accept its business model or to purchase another brand if they disagee with the proprietary system concept. "

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"What you hear in a great jazz band is the sound of democracy. “The jazz band works best when participation is shaped by intelligent communication.”
Harmony happens whenever different parts get to form a whole by means of congruity, concord, symetry, consistency, conformity, correspondence, agreement, accord, unity, consonance…….

The issue here is related to the online downloading of music, not the software on the iPod. Imagine that Microsoft had designed their Windows software so that it could only connect to the internet using their MSN service as the Inernet Service Provider. That would be the equivalent to what Apple has done in making their iPod only be able to download music from the iTunes service. It is indeed an anti-trust violation.

If Apple can get away with this, then they might as well design their computers to only be able to download music from iTunes and not from other services. Maybe Microsoft should start their own music download service and design the Windows operating system so that it can only download music from their service and not from other services. Maybe Sony should start a Cable Television Service and make their TVs so that they can only receive broadcasts from their own Cable service, and not from Direct TV or Cablevision, or other providers.

Do you see where this is going?

You are correct that nobody paid them any attention when their market share was small. That is because you cannot be in violation of anti-trust legislation unless you have a very large market share. If only 5% of the music players owned by consumers were iPods, then that would not be enough to infringe on other music download services. But Apple's market share is approaching 100% -- they sell far more than all the other music players put together. As a result, by not making their music player compatible with other music download providers, they will essentially put these other companies out of business. With iPods making up the lion's share of the music players owned by consumers, I don't think a music download service can compete with iTunes. It would not matter how good their selection of music was, or how user friendly their service was, or what they charged for downloads, because most consumers would not be able to use their downloads with their Ipods. The end result would be a monopoly for Apple.

If this is not an anti-trust violation, then what would be? I cannot think of a better example of an anti-trust violation.

I'll just add here that I am in the music business. I own a music publishing company that licenses "production music" to studios and producers for use in television production. The most common audio editing system used by studios is called "Pro Tools". They have a very large market share -- most of my clients use this system. If Avid (the company that makes Pro Tools) were to decide they were going to enter the music business and they were to release their own library of production music, and then design their software so that their editing system could only use their branded music, I would be out of business tomorrow. That is essentially what Apple is doing with the iPod and iTunes download service.

By definition, a "trust" is when you use a dominant market share in one industry to force competition out of business in another industry and gain a monopoly in that industry as well. It is an unfair business practice which should not be allowed.