I'm not talking about no cows.

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"What you hear in a great jazz band is the sound of democracy. “The jazz band works best when participation is shaped by intelligent communication.”
Harmony happens whenever different parts get to form a whole by means of congruity, concord, symetry, consistency, conformity, correspondence, agreement, accord, unity, consonance…….

Your "50%" are not scientists and have never published any research papers in any scientific journals. They are typically employees of PR firms and their "research" is funded by the oil industry.

One example of this sort of propoganda is this website:

http://globalwarming.org/

From its name, you would think this is a good source for information on global warming. Then look here:

http://www.globalwarming.org/store.htm

Of course they sell a bunch of propoganda books with titles like "Global Warming and Other Eco-Mythss", "The Skeptical Environmentalist: Measuring the Real State of the World" , "Meltdown: The Predictable Distortion of Global Warming by Scientists, Politicians, and the Media", etc.

Who runs this website? A group called the Cooler Heads Coalition. The chairman of this group is a guy named Myron Ebell. Mr. Ebell is also the Director of Global Warming and International Environmental Policy at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. And who are they? They claim to be a non-profit consumer group. But their 2 largest donors, by far, are Exxon/Mobil and the American Petroleum Institute.

So that is who is paying for your "science".

If you like that sort of "science", perhaps you should have the American Dairy Association and the American Meat Institute do research for you on how to lower your cholesterol.

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

Time to tear your propoganda sources apart.

1. Junkscience.com

The website Junkscience.com is run by Steven Milloy who is "a paid advocate for Phillip Morris and ExxonMobil"

He is also the author of a book called "Silencing Science"

2. Cooler Heads

The chairman of the Cooler Heads Coalition is Myron Ebell, who is also the Director of Global Warming and International Environmental Policy at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. Their 2 largest donors, by far, are Exxon/Mobil and the American Petroleum Institute.

3. State of Fear

This book is a fiction. Using this as your source is like using George Orwell's "1984" to argue against the Patriot Act.

The web page you linked does a fine job of explaining how his book mixed manipulated data and fiction together to make inaccurate assumptions. Good job!

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

And remember Rebound, Al Gore invented the internet so any sources on it are his too

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An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting.

"promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare"

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Shhh...he's watching me right now!

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2010 528Xi
I demand justice.
Or, if there must be injustice, let it be in my favor.

Reynold's Wrap: it's not just for hats anymore.

The irony is killing me.

You have apparently missed the larger point, but then that's normal for you. Here - I'll cut to the chase.

<Ahem> Eric, you win.

There, do you feel better now?

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2010 528Xi
I demand justice.
Or, if there must be injustice, let it be in my favor.

Reynold's Wrap: it's not just for hats anymore.

And what is the "larger point"?

Do you not see a problem with citing studies that are paid for by the oil industry as your "science" on the subject of global warming?

Were you one of those people who back in the 1960s believed the cigarette smoking studies paid for by the tabacco companies?

Or did you believed the studies on vitamins in the 1980s paid for by the drug companies? You know, the ones that said there are no health benefits from vitamins.

Ever head the term "conflict of interest". There are more examples of this:

Ex-board members of the major drug companies serving in top positions in the FDA. Ex-board members of major media companies serving in top positions at the FCC. Current board members of the military hardware manufacturers serving on the Defense Policy Board. -- all these are not "hypothetical" examples but are reality in our current government.

But somehow, you do not see anything wrong with this, and you think that the scientists are the ones with an "agenda". Yes indeed, the scientists are all involved in a grand conspiracy to take down the big oil industry, just like they did the tabacco industry 30 years ago. And how do these scientists benefit from this? Who knows!

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

I believe "global warming" or "global climate change" or whatever you want to call it is real.

However, I have the following questions:

1. How much of this change is "naturally occuring" rather than man-made?

2. Of the portion that is "man-made", what are the weightings of the various causes? Burning fossil fuels? Deforestation of the rain forests? Dramatic population growth? Urbanization?

I suspect part, but not necessarily all, of the problem is due to man-made activities. However, I don't think there is a scientific consensus yet on WHICH activities are having the greatest impact.

For example, average temperature in cities has materially risen over the last century, but not so in rural areas. Perhaps this is due to the urban island heat effect (which is the result of tearing down millions of acres of trees to build houses, shopping malls, roads and other elements of urban sprawl). If that is the case, perhaps we would be better off focusing on zoning issues and/or limiting population growth than obsessing over fossil fuels.

Or perhaps it is mostly due to the burning of fossil fuels. In which case, we ought to increase taxes on petroleum products and use that revenue to lower other forms of taxes in a revenue-neutral manner. The price-elasticity of demand for gasoline, in the short run, is pretty low because there aren't any readily available substitutes. But over a 5-10 year period, I think we would see substitutes develop if gas were taxed more heavily.

Or perhaps the bulk of the problem is related to the destruction of the rainforests. Worldwide, the rainforests are being torn down at an alarming rate. The rainforests "breathe in" carbon dioxide and "breathe out" oxygen. Perhaps the industrialized nations of the world should collectively "pay" developing nations such as Indonesia and Brazil if they will agree not to cut down any more of the rainforest.

I suspect we are going to see the right and left come together on this issue of "oil addiction". Liberals have been all over it for a while, but conservatives are about to join the movement due to national security concerns. We are now dangerously dependent on unstable, anti-US regimes for much of our imported oil. Therefore, I think the problem will be addressed in a bipartisan fashion, but not until after the 2008 elections.

You bring up good points. The problem is the sharp increase in CO2 levels in our atmostphere. Obviously burning of fossil fuels is one thing that contributes, but also the chopping down of forests and trees contributes as well.

One thing that Gore brings up in his movie is that many people believe there is a problem, but also believe there is nothing we can do to fix it. He cites the Ozone layer as an example. I remember back in the late 1980s the Ozone thing became a big deal. I remember the government passed various laws putting limits on certain substances that were known to cause problems with the Ozone. What I did not know is that these laws worked. Apparently within 10 years, the big hole that was in the Ozone closed up almost entirely. So we can indeed make a difference if there are laws passed and there is some coordination. But just telling people to save energy and plant a tree is not enough. You need the various governments of the world to coordinate this change.

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...