md and the oil experts, what's your thoughts on this?

UCrewX5 · #1 05-27-2005, 03:26 PM

"Compulsive Oil Changers Cause More Engine Wear"

Interesting read at the 'ole stomping grounds

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motordavid · #2 05-27-2005, 09:21 PM

UCrew, no Xpert here...that would be Withidl, the petro engineer.

I read that thread on the RoadToadBored and then, read the link.
Interesting, though not the best written snippet I've seen and somewhat anecdotal, and the "test procedures" were sorta all over the place.

I came away with these thoughts:
-syn oil, Any fooking brand, is amazing stuff
-espc. when compared to non-syn
-Any oil is pretty damn good, and w/"reg" oil&filter changes, most motors, under most conditions (barring calamity), will run better than the motor that the dolt only changes twice in the car's life.
-the arm wrestles and continual barrage of questions on "oil brand, oil life, blah, blah blah" that is seen on every car & m'cycle board is really the search for that magic vitamin pill or, simply the quest by the A nal-obsessives and "overdoers",imo.

"Our cars" are Not ProStock drag cars, full race cars or cars that ever push their tolerances or blister their "deep cooling" (that's what oil does besides offering that fine film to slide upon), that JoePublic can buy or own.

It's back to econ101 and to one's own foilbles and bents:
-if it's leased, WhoGivesACrap and I'd only do what BMW paid for.
-if it's mine and I'm gonna keep it for awhile, an annual oil & filter change and Maybe a biannual o&f change, at Most, would do fine.

-I'm w/the poster Withidl: that 5W-30 stuff is fine/ok chasing mpg and for winter climes, but I much prefer a wider viscosity spread, Espc. in the warmer months, eg. 5W-50 in cars and 15W-50 in my M'cycles. I have anecdotal personal stories on my rides, over the years, that will bore to tears, but the bottom line, imo, is good syn oil w/regular changes, eg 1 per year, and don't let the level get low/top off, vis a vis the big point in that art is TheDeal.

My dime dance is up. Withidl will have a more informative, more tech based and succinct post. I suspect oil/petro stuff Is rocket science, but driving these babies and keeping their "blood" good, is not the huge deal we have been consumerized to think it is.
BR,md

JCL · #3 05-28-2005, 12:00 AM

Another non-expert here. Thanks for this, I hadn't seen the thread, but I had read the link previously and followed some of their tests.

Agree with MD's thoughts, with a few additional ones:

* Regular maintenance, paying attention and fixing things right away, is more important than absolutes like what interval the oil gets changed at.

* Lots of individuals who grew up with 3000 mile oil change intervals (like me) could consider that the X5 sump is twice the capacity of many larger displacement V8s. Twice the capacity results in twice the change interval, barring the filter issues and all other things being equal.

* We live in an age of ulta-low emission SUVs (something of an oxymoron). The engines that used to pollute a lot more used to put a fair chunk of those acids/byproducts of combustion into the sump. The work that has gone on to make a cleaner engine results in the oil staying cleaner as well.

* I personally don't buy the "BMW stretches the interval because they save an oil change in the maintenance contract" pitch. It just doesn't add up. It isn't worth the damage to their reputation (or any other manufacturer). They aren't alone on these intervals. Warranty repair costs (even for a small percentage) are just a lot higher than oil change costs. And being involved in the service business, we want the PM customers under contract to come in, it is an opportunity for all sorts of other sales, including just keeping in touch for the next vehicle sale.

* For those who think that BMW doesn't care about the quality at the end of lease, consider how many vehicles go through BMW's own leasing program. Wouldn't they be burning both ends of that candle? I freely admit I don't know much about the US leasing statistics.

* I think the filter technology is important, I have been involved in extensive tests at work on various filter brands (diesel engines) and they are not all the same. Micron rating (published and actual), bypass valve functioning, and durability (not falling apart with the hours) all vary, and so I use OEM filters. I think that is not discussed or valued much, there is a lot more discussion about oil than filters. I have seen more people ruin equipment with cheap filters than with cheap oil.

* Here is a factoid that amazed me when I found it out. New oil isn't necessarily clean. It isn't contaminated like used oil (hence the colour) but we ran lots of tests with oil analysis equipment on heavy equipment, some with instant readouts on supply/return lines. Some surprises came up after an oil change, and we tracked it back to the oil supply. The oil from the vendor was cleaner after running through the engine filters than it was out of the barrel, immediately after a change. This was a big name supplier. The difference was noticable, and repeatable. We were using particle count analyzers, and the filters on the engine were obviously finer than those used in the packaging process.

* I use the BMW intervals (lights on the dashboard), but should qualify that with my low annual mileage (16,000 km/10,000 miles per year is the highest on any one vehicle), my once a year regime always gets them before they get to the full interval. I don't worry about going 10 or 12 thousand miles, but I won't let it sit for over 12 months.

Jeff

motordavid · #4 05-28-2005, 08:15 AM

JCL, good stuff and good info there! Always a pleasure to read your posts.
BR,md

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