Back to the Seattle Christmas tree discussion

[Wagner]

To those who said "separation of church and state" and that Christmas trees shouldn't be displayed on the grounds of state sponsored religion...here you go:

"The Supreme Court has held since 1984, the famous 'Reindeer Rule,' that if a symbol of Christmas is mostly secular, like a reindeer or a Christmas tree or Santa Claus, that is not a violation of the separation of church and state."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/12/Dobbs.Dec13/index.html

[Thunder22]

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

To those who said "separation of church and state" and that Christmas trees shouldn't be displayed on the grounds of state sponsored religion...here you go:

"The Supreme Court has held since 1984, the famous 'Reindeer Rule,' that if a symbol of Christmas is mostly secular, like a reindeer or a Christmas tree or Santa Claus, that is not a violation of the separation of church and state."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/12/Dobbs.Dec13/index.html

I have 1 simple statement to make about this entire thing:

If people have a problem with Christmas decorations, that's fine, it's their choice. HOWEVER, I would suggest that they not partake in any of the benefits of the Christmas season like store sales, parties, any time off that their employee gives them pertaining to Christmas, Christmas bonuses... you get the idea.

Can't have your cake and eat it too....

[Wagner]

gresch, full agreement. I'm not religious so to speak but I never understood why when I was in school, everyone got Christmas vacation off but then Jewish students could take additional days (and not be marked absent) yet I wasn't off.

Seemed like such a simple discrimination, but, nobody attempted to sue anyone over it. Some items you just accept.

[JV]

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

gresch, full agreement. I'm not religious so to speak but I never understood why when I was in school, everyone got Christmas vacation off but then Jewish students could take additional days (and not be marked absent) yet I wasn't off.

Seemed like such a simple discrimination, but, nobody attempted to sue anyone over it. Some items you just accept.

In this country, the minority in any group gets a pass. Sometimes it's long overdue and needed and appreciated by the beneficiaries, but more often than not, it's just a pass that goes unappreciated and serves to anger those who do not receive it.

[B-Line]

Excuse me,

Are you people serious????? Maybe you better lighten up on the egg-nog.

Jewish kids don't go to school on Christmas because no one would be there. No teachers, no bus drivers, no janitors to lock or unlock the doors.
Are you suggesting that all the Jewish kids on Dec 25th should arrive at the front door of a school and wait for the non-jews to come back? Are you also forgetting the importance of education in the Jewish religion? A Jewish fetus is not a life until it has a Masters Degree!
-- Furthermore, Jews do not get off for Hannukah. Never have, never will.

So what your talking about then, is Rosh a Shona and Yum Kippur. Our highest of holy days. Which in total, is two days off of school/work. Now Yum Kippur (which is probably about the equivalent of Christmas in importance) is a day of atonement for the Jews. What does that mean? That means for 24 hours, jews don't eat, wash their face, drink, brush their teeth, comb their hair or do anything basically. Jews are not sitting around a tree opening gifts, baking hams and having snow ball fights or playing PS3.

-- So if you think there is a Jewish kid out there that wouldn't rather be in school eating, drinking and playing on Yum Kippur rather than starving him or herself while having morning breath, bed head, and basically being prisoned for a day, please find him for me, so he can remind me how great it is to have that day off.

B

[Wagner]

Originally Posted by B-Line

Excuse me,

Are you people serious????? Maybe you better lighten up on the egg-nog.

Jewish kids don't go to school on Christmas because no one would be there. No teachers, no bus drivers, no janitors to lock or unlock the doors.
Are you suggesting that all the Jewish kids on Dec 25th should arrive at the front door of a school and wait for the non-jews to come back? Are you also forgetting the importance of education in the Jewish religion? A Jewish fetus is not a life until it has a Masters Degree!
-- Furthermore, Jews do not get off for Hannukah. Never have, never will.

So what your talking about then, is Rosh a Shona and Yum Kippur. Our highest of holy days. Which in total, is two days off of school/work. Now Yum Kippur (which is probably about the equivalent of Christmas in importance) is a day of atonement for the Jews. What does that mean? That means for 24 hours, jews don't eat, wash their face, drink, brush their teeth, comb their hair or do anything basically. Jews are not sitting around a tree opening gifts, baking hams and having snow ball fights or playing PS3.

-- So if you think there is a Jewish kid out there that wouldn't rather be in school eating, drinking and playing on Yum Kippur rather than starving him or herself while having morning breath, bed head, and basically being prisoned for a day, please find him for me, so he can remind me how great it is to have that day off.

B

No perhaps people should realize some arguments are ridiculous, such as crying about a Christmas tree......

And I can attest to watching my Jewish friends take off Jewish holidays and do EXACTLY what you proclaim they don't do. And to the "nobody would be at school" how about Jewish teachers...oh wait, this still sounds pretty dumb....as does arguing about Christmas Trees.

[JV]

Originally Posted by B-Line

So what your talking about then, is Rosh a Shona and Yum Kippur. Our highest of holy days. Which in total, is two days off of school/work. Now Yum Kippur (which is probably about the equivalent of Christmas in importance) is a day of atonement for the Jews. What does that mean? That means for 24 hours, jews don't eat, wash their face, drink, brush their teeth, comb their hair or do anything basically. Jews are not sitting around a tree opening gifts, baking hams and having snow ball fights or playing PS3.

-- So if you think there is a Jewish kid out there that wouldn't rather be in school eating, drinking and playing on Yum Kippur rather than starving him or herself while having morning breath, bed head, and basically being prisoned for a day, please find him for me, so he can remind me how great it is to have that day off.

B

One of the best posts ever! You got the good info in and threw a few yuks in there too! Rack it!!!

[B-Line]

Wagner,

Your arguement would be valid if I were fighting against Christmas trees. Which I, nor any other Jew that I know is against.
Matter of fact, the people who do have the problem with the Christmas trees are usually "former" Christians or aethiests, NOT JEWS.

I think the only argument you heard coming from the Jews (and Chabad-Lubavitch Rabbi at that) is that they would also like to see a Menorah added to the holiday decorations. (yes, he was wrong for his approach) and for those of you not familiar with Lubavith, they are extremely religious and non-secular.

But I also noted, Lou Dobbs was very happy to point out, that a menorah has still not been put up. "Christmas trees have sprung back up throughout the concourse, and no, not a single menorah has been spotted. I can only hope this is the beginning of a major movement in America, one that regards thinking as paramount to phony feelings and heightened self-centered sensitivities."

Would it really have been that un-Christmas like to add a Menorah to the concourse at this point?


So please stop thinking that it's the Jews that are against Christmas. We're not. We enjoy the time off from work and school and mostly, it's great to see most of the world in a festive atmosphere sharing wealth, love and happiness.

But that doesn't mean, Happy Holidays is an inappropiate greeting either. Again, it's universal and can and should be used interchangably.

B

[Wagner]

Lord, I never said Jews were against Christmas......

The point is the argument was completely invalid....unless of course he was intending for every one of the vast numbers of religions should be represented. I believe the smart play was simply pulling the trees, watching people realize how ridiculous it was, and then put the trees back up.

[E61Silver]

Happy Holidays to all.