No Guns For The Mindless Masses! - Page 2

the head · #11 03-28-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Just a side note, but if you look at rates of violent crimes in the US (or in any country for that matter), you will find that following a war, violent crime rates always sharply increase for a few years.

I carry no flag for a party within US politics...my greatest joy is when the house and senate are controlled by the opposite party that way no one can get much done and nothing can get any more messed up then it currently is...While I am a bit of a hawk in terms of actions to be taken in foreign poilcy it is not because of a leaning in any political direction...

With the mention of Violent crimes following a war that is not because of the physical action of going to war...Economically wars are very profitable for US businesses not only weapons manufactures but many other ancillary products that the enormous military machine needs to be supplied with...this creates a need for more employees in companies...which leads to lower unemployment rates...as a side note we are VERY close to the unemployment red zone currently...which may or may not have something to do with the war in Iraq...once a war ends there is usually a retraction as the demand from the government decreases and workers get laid off...primarily these jobs are remideal blue collar jobs...this creates potential for the increased crime rate.

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Eric5273 · #12 03-28-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the head

With the mention of Violent crimes following a war that is not because of the physical action of going to war...Economically wars are very profitable for US businesses not only weapons manufactures but many other ancillary products that the enormous military machine needs to be supplied with...this creates a need for more employees in companies...which leads to lower unemployment rates...as a side note we are VERY close to the unemployment red zone currently...which may or may not have something to do with the war in Iraq...once a war ends there is usually a retraction as the demand from the government decreases and workers get laid off...primarily these jobs are remideal blue collar jobs...this creates potential for the increased crime rate.

During long wars like Vietnam, the violent crime increases started to happen long before the war was over. And this was during a period of time when the economy was booming.

And in the case of the Gulf War (a short war), the economy actually improved after the war, yet violent crime continued to increase for several years. Now we are seeing violent crime rates increase sharply the last 2 years after seeing them decrease year after year for the last decade. And this is with the highest military budget we have ever had, by far.

People follow by example. We have a culture where war is acceptable and our country has been involved in more wars than any other country in the world over the past 50 years. Someone mentioned Singapore before as having a low crime rate. Tell me when the last time Singapore was involved in a war.

If you look at a list of the highest and lowest violent crime rates, you will find the countries who have the highest rates are the ones that have had recent wars on their own soil, followed by the countries who have been involved in wars overseas, and then the lowest violent crime rates are the countries that have not been involved in wars for decades. Find a list, and that is what you will see. And yes, poverty does have some relationship to this stuff as well. You will find that countries with large amounts of poverty will have higher violent crime rates than those with little or no poverty. This is another area where our country ranks very low.

the head · #13 03-28-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

During long wars like Vietnam, the violent crime increases started to happen long before the war was over. And this was during a period of time when the economy was booming.

And in the case of the Gulf War (a short war), the economy actually improved after the war, yet violent crime continued to increase for several years. Now we are seeing violent crime rates increase sharply the last 2 years after seeing them decrease year after year for the last decade. And this is with the highest military budget we have ever had, by far.

Do you have demographic information on this? The violent crime increases regarding Veitnam also included student/activist protests which kind of skews the numbers...The economical improvement dovetailed off of the initial Gulf war, but there were many other factors that assisted that econimical improvement...I am interested to see the violent crime data...not something that I pay much attention to

noncom23 · #14 03-28-2007, 04:47 PM

US Violent Crime Index ( not war related)

the head · #15 03-28-2007, 05:24 PM

thanks for the information!

Eric5273 · #16 03-28-2007, 06:27 PM

Case in point:

CNN.com: Violent crime takes first big jump since '91

Murders in the United States jumped 4.8 percent last year, and overall violent crime was up 2.5 percent for the year, marking the largest annual increase in crime in the United States since 1991, according to figures released Monday by the FBI.

Hrmmm....help me out here....what happened in 1991? Oh yes...it was the last time we were at war.

Seems that the violent crime rates increase during periods of war, not after war.

X5Jones · #17 03-29-2007, 02:16 AM

The idea of stopping manufacture of firearms("gun" is such a maligned and abused word these days) and "gathering up and destroying" the remaining ones may look good in a computer simulation where the black market dealers, backyard manufacturers and "homeboyz" turn theirs in too, but in reality it won't happen!.

To stop weapons manufacturing you'd have to outlaw and destroy all metal working equipment!, then you will hear about black market lathes and home built grinding machines getting "seized by the police"

My CNC lathe could make enough barrels or bolts for more than 100 SMG's in one day if I WANTED TO and if criminals want to make firearms, THEY WILL

Just don't get any ideas that I make firearms just because I have metalworking machines!, i specialize in once-off jobs like marine and fluid transmission.

PersonaNonGrata · #18 03-29-2007, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Case in point:

CNN.com: Violent crime takes first big jump since '91

Murders in the United States jumped 4.8 percent last year, and overall violent crime was up 2.5 percent for the year, marking the largest annual increase in crime in the United States since 1991, according to figures released Monday by the FBI.

Hrmmm....help me out here....what happened in 1991? Oh yes...it was the last time we were at war.

Seems that the violent crime rates increase during periods of war, not after war.

Wow. I also heard that the murder rate goes up when ice cream sales increase. Time to ban ice cream.

spurious correlation (′spyu̇r·ē·əs ′kä·rə′lā·shən)

(statistics) The value of the coefficient of correlation when it is computed correctly but its relationship implications are nonsensical or unreasonable.

For those who don't like guns: One of my favorites.

Eric5273 · #19 03-29-2007, 04:06 AM

Here are some murder stats during (and after) the Vietnam War:

1950-1965: murder rates stays between 4.0 and 5.1 (per 100,000 population)

1966: 5.6
1967: 6.2
1968: 6.9
1969: 7.3
1970: 7.9
1971: 8.6
1972: 9.0
1973: 9.4
1974: 9.8

(End of Vietnam War)

1975: 9.6
1976: 8.8

Eric5273 · #20 03-29-2007, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata

For those who don't like guns: One of my favorites.

I prefer this model:

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