Another view of the Sopranos Finale

Kewl X5 · #1 06-16-2007, 07:46 PM

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; PalmSource/Palm-D052; Blazer/4.5) 16;320x320)

Okay, here is Bob Harris's view that the Soprano Finale "Made in America" is set up as showing Tony's Catholic Funeral.

If you haven't seen the episode, there are SPOILERS!

http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/1406/1/

Enjoy!

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Wagner · #2 06-16-2007, 07:52 PM

Tony died

That was what Chase eluded to....saying "it's all in the last episode.." and then referring to the discussion with Bobby where Tony responded to "what do you think happens when you die? "I think it all goes black".

noncom23 · #3 06-16-2007, 07:55 PM

OK, I get it now...

PersonaNonGrata · #4 06-16-2007, 09:13 PM

It's a very good analysis.

Maybe some of it goes a little too far but the bulk of it is very cogent.

pseto · #5 06-16-2007, 09:44 PM

Being the most non-religious person in the world, this seems like a very interesting theory that I can't really contest. I never thought about the oranges being so prevalent either, but it absolutely makes sense.

Its funny how almost 90% of the people I've talked to about the ending didn't like it. I guess most people watched the Sopranos for the whackings

David Chase is absolutely brilliant and I do believe he sets up most of the details so that many people can't follow along. He knows he basically has 2 sets of audiences: those that want to see killings and those more interested in the storyline/character development/foreshadowing. And and he did a great job of catering to both.

Verbalkint · #6 06-16-2007, 10:49 PM

That's a real eye-opener.

There are lots of visual and auditory cues that I missed in that final scene.

After having read that article, it certainly does seem that Tony is dead.

Thanks for posting, Dr. Kewl.

B-Line · #7 06-18-2007, 02:21 AM

I watched the last episode without giving any real thought into "subliminal plants". And I haven't had a chance to re-watch the episode so I'm going to make my comments without having had a chance to see it twice even.

I think the analysis of the final episode and scene's are actually brilliant. Believe you, me, nothing happens on camera, by accident, unless it's amateur night, which Chase, etc. most certainly is not. The theory on the onion rings, The Last Supper, (my god, THE ORANGES), Veal, etc. are classic. -- The members only things would have completely skipped me though...

(on a side note, if anyone is interested in learning more about a filmmakers approach to color and meaning, might want to read the book, "If it's purple, someone is going to die."
http://www.amazon.com/Its-Purple-Som.../dp/0240806883

We all know Chase meant something, but who really wanted to roll up their sleeves and examine it? It's kind of like trying to decipher the "Who Shot Mr. Burns?" episode of the Simpsons. - All the clues are there... But did we want clues?

I think the issue most people seem to have with the final episode, is not that the subliminal plants don't tell us all we need to know. The issues I have heard and somewhat echo is, I have invested seven years of my life watching this family grow, die, get shot, get fatter, whinier, hotter, etc. and regardless of "the message," I think most of the audience wanted to see Chase's characters end their last moments "on celluloid" not on black.. For all the years we have watched Tony get more and more evil, don't as an audience, we deserve the right to see him die? To hear him die? To see the world finding it's balance once again? The message is clear, Tony is dead, but why not have him go out like Big Al in Scarface.. After all, he was carrying around the assault rifle for two episodes. "You wanna play rough........"

- It is still my opinion that the offscreen death of Adrianna was the most brilliant and well built death in the shows history. But she was an innocent, a victim. That's why it worked so well with the camera on Sil. It was on offscreen death that we all felt in the bottom of our guts. But Tony deserved to die and I wanted to see his brain matter splattered all over Meadow's new sweater.

So even though I think Chase's ending was brilliant, genius, the stuff of legends, can't I also feel disappointed that the retribution had to happen offscreen, In my mind?
-- Yes, we're still here talking about this, one week later. Which in itself is amazing. It illicited the response that Chase wanted which was controversy. He obviously made a very conscious decision to not have Tony die on screen.

It certainly was an "out of the box" way to end a great series and for that, I do thank Chase for trying something different.

B

noncom23 · #8 06-18-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

I watched the last episode without giving any real thought into "subliminal plants". And I haven't had a chance to re-watch the episode so I'm going to make my comments without having had a chance to see it twice even.

I think the analysis of the final episode and scene's are actually brilliant. Believe you, me, nothing happens on camera, by accident, unless it's amateur night, which Chase, etc. most certainly is not. The theory on the onion rings, The Last Supper, (my god, THE ORANGES), Veal, etc. are classic. -- The members only things would have completely skipped me though...

(on a side note, if anyone is interested in learning more about a filmmakers approach to color and meaning, might want to read the book, "If it's purple, someone is going to die."
http://www.amazon.com/Its-Purple-Som.../dp/0240806883

We all know Chase meant something, but who really wanted to roll up their sleeves and examine it? It's kind of like trying to decipher the "Who Shot Mr. Burns?" episode of the Simpsons. - All the clues are there... But did we want clues?

I think the issue most people seem to have with the final episode, is not that the subliminal plants don't tell us all we need to know. The issues I have heard and somewhat echo is, I have invested seven years of my life watching this family grow, die, get shot, get fatter, whinier, hotter, etc. and regardless of "the message," I think most of the audience wanted to see Chase's characters end their last moments "on celluloid" not on black.. For all the years we have watched Tony get more and more evil, don't as an audience, we deserve the right to see him die? To hear him die? To see the world finding it's balance once again? The message is clear, Tony is dead, but why not have him go out like Big Al in Scarface.. After all, he was carrying around the assault rifle for two episodes. "You wanna play rough........"

- It is still my opinion that the offscreen death of Adrianna was the most brilliant and well built death in the shows history. But she was an innocent, a victim. That's why it worked so well with the camera on Sil. It was on offscreen death that we all felt in the bottom of our guts. But Tony deserved to die and I wanted to see his brain matter splattered all over Meadow's new sweater.

So even though I think Chase's ending was brilliant, genius, the stuff of legends, can't I also feel disappointed that the retribution had to happen offscreen, In my mind?
-- Yes, we're still here talking about this, one week later. Which in itself is amazing. It illicited the response that Chase wanted which was controversy. He obviously made a very conscious decision to not have Tony die on screen.

It certainly was an "out of the box" way to end a great series and for that, I do thank Chase for trying something different.

B

Verbalkint · #9 06-18-2007, 08:48 PM

B-Line:

I was hoping you'd weigh in on this with your take.

Very informative, enlightening, and insightful.

And I agree with you re: Adrianna's offscreen death scene.

Thanks for posting.

B-Line · #10 06-19-2007, 02:55 AM

Verb,

It's my pleasure. I only wish I had more time to examine the episode but my house was under renovation so I watched it at a friends.
I wish my viewing experience was a little different so I could have soaked it up by myself, without a bunch of other people in the room oohing and aahing.

So a lot of my comments are really hindsight and has also been biased by all the media surrounding the ending. But let it be said, loud and clear, GOOD ARTISTS CREATE, GREAT ARTISTS STEAL.

- And if Chase wants to use the Godfather and other works that are ingrained in the conscience of pop culture to tell his story, then so be it.
- We don't look down at Scorsese for using the lines, "I could have been somebody.. I could have been a contender." at the end of Raging Bull, to give us the insight we needed for Jack La Motta.

- We don't look down at DePalma for borrowing techniques from Eisenstein in the Untouchables when the baby carriage falls down the stairs (this was first used in the Odessa Steps Sequence of Battleship Potemkin, which I think was made in 1921 or so.)

Cinema is a visual language which has it's own set of rules. Some of it is very conscience but most of it is very subconscience to the audience. The use of space, shapes, camera angles, areas of focus, color pallette, lens selection, location, color, lighting, makeup, wardrobe, etc. is all meticuliously chosen.

We stand on the shoulders of our predecessors and we honor them by referencing the visual laws of cinema that they have paved for us. We try to interoperate things in our own way, while paying homage to the works we so much love.

B

Also, it's my pleasure to share my thoughts on the matter, but please, it's not gospel. I'm just a guy with an MFA. That and a token will get me on the subway.

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