Going in line with the gun threads...

[Wagner]

So Utah allows college students to carry weapons as part of its carry program. Check out this quote and tell me if one part does not directly contradict the other

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/20/cnnu.guns/index.html

However, she said the regents are opposing a legislative proposal to allow people with concealed weapons permits to have the weapons visible in public.

Other notable quotes:

"When you see someone with a gun, you are looking at some of the most law-abiding people in the state," he said.

To get a permit to carry a concealed weapon, people in Utah must, among other things:

# Be 21 years old

# Have no criminal record of violent, immoral or substance-related crime

# Be mentally competent.

"But you see, that is where the problem lies: Everybody will end up carrying concealed weapons, and everyday problems will be solved with guns rather than words or even fists." <-- Wild West Syndrome IMO.

"The people that do it want to commit suicide anyway," Morrison said. "But it would give students a chance to defend themselves, and at Virginia Tech, it could have ended sooner than it did."

[Bimmer360]

one word..insane. This will unlock the potentials and possibilities of good kids to become bad, of course, not all, kids are kids, and they do stupid things without thinking sometimes especially knowing that they carry a gun. Who knows what would end up if they get involved in heated arguments or just a simple dispute? mankind has a history of regretting what they have done after damage has been done saying, "oh, i didnt mean to do that."

[clrankin]

Let me chime in on the opposite side of this debate and ask a few questions:

1. If a person is responsible enough to legally own a gun, what would lead a person to jump to the conclusion that the person is not responsible enough to know how to handle the responsibilities of ownership in a mature manner?

2. According to what was stated above, a 21 year old with no criminal record would qualify to apply for a concealed carry permit in Utah. That 21 year old person could possibly be a college student at the time of application and receipt of the permit. If the state feels that this person is capable of carrying a concealed weapon in public without turning a town's streets into a shooting gallery, why should a public college or university have the ability to disagree? It seems stupid to me-- one the one hand, the state says that a person can carry a concealed weapon; one the other hand, another part of the state-- with no experience or responsibility in law enforcement (i.e. a college) says that a person can't. It seems that the part of the state responsible for issuing the permits should be able to overrule a few liberal college anti-gun nuts who feel that a small handful of students should be forced to surrender their second amendment rights at the door.

(Now, if you're talking private schools that's a different story. Private individuals, organizations, and companies can ban firearm carrying on their own private property without affecting second amendment rights at all-- since the second amendment only applies to government action.)

Personally, I feel that people should be able to carry concealed firearms with them on public property as long as the proper permit has been issued. And by public property, I mean parks, public schools (yes, high schools and grade schools-- if they wish), public colleges and universities, etc. The only reasonable exceptions to this are places where a certain degree of security must be maintained-- courthouses, certain government buildings, etc.

Perhaps if we became a society in which all people were more acquainted with firearms, this irrational fear of guns and apparent discrimination against people who wish to maintain a certain degree of personal safety would both be eliminated. And if we all carried guns and were trained on how to use them, this would probably also cut down on the number of crimes. How many would-be wallet-snatchers would want to risk getting shot over fifty bucks and a few credit cards that would be canceled within the hour?

One final question... If a public school (say Virginia Tech, for instance) outlaws firearms on campus, who do you think should be financially responsible for damages and injuries when shootings occur? I'd say that the school should be. By creating an environment in which people are unable to defend themselves, the school is taking on the responsibility of providing safety. If they fail to do so, I'd hope that they would be held responsible for their short-sightedness. If I were a surviving victim, I'd be the first one to go find a shark of a lawyer who would make every attempt to do so...

[PersonaNonGrata]

Originally Posted by Bimmer360

one word..insane. This will unlock the potentials and possibilities of good kids to become bad, of course, not all, kids are kids, and they do stupid things without thinking sometimes especially knowing that they carry a gun. Who knows what would end up if they get involved in heated arguments or just a simple dispute? mankind has a history of regretting what they have done after damage has been done saying, "oh, i didnt mean to do that."

I don't think that people who carry guns are more prone to use them. I know you're generalizing and so am I but I think people who carry guns legally do not carry them in hopes they get to use it. Most of the people I have come across who LEGALLY carry a gun understand the seriousness of it and accept the responsibility that comes with the capability of using lethal force. Here in California it's a rare privilege but there are still plenty of CCW holders.

I would be curious to see statistics from states like Arizona, Texas, Florida, Nevada, Vermont, and Washington State where CCW laws are very permissive. How many shootings were committed by a person legally licensed to carry a gun and in what circumstances?

[Boston X5 4.4]

Originally Posted by Wagner

# Be 21 years old

# Have no criminal record of violent, immoral or substance-related crime

# Be mentally competent.

Yup, I met all three of those criteria while a senior in college. However I still did some pretty usual but dumazz drunk and foolish stuff my senior year - I'm glad that I didn't have a loaded gun in my pocket at the time though.

[MrLabGuy]

The argument that a good moral person would all of a sudden decide to settle a dispute with a gun carried on his person is ridiculous. That would go against ones good and moral character and for most of us this is a life decision. I'm in California and getting a carry permit is next to impossible, but if it were I would have one. As it is I have a stun gun in my wifes car as well as my X5 in the event we are attacked. Thankfully, we've not had to use them; however, chances are one of us might and we have these for that event should we ever be unfortunate enough to experience such an attack.

On the other end...Society would benefit from me being armed. I have firearm experience and I am a moral and just person who has come to the aid of others in the past. Last year I pulled a man hanging from his seatbelt from a burning vehicle which had rolled and was upside down on fire. I clearly remember the gasoline pouring out of the gas tank as the flames spread and the gas ran down toward the fire in the engine compartment (He was on a hill with the rear of the car elevated). Playing it safe was not an option and I could not live with myself had I let him burn. We were on a remote part of Hwy 101 between Ukiah and Cloverdale (those who know the north bay) in a very rural stretch of hwy.

I was also fortunate enough to be at the right place at the right time about 15 years ago when I rescued a woman in a blizzard at a ski resort. She accidentally skied off the back side of the mountain which was closed at the time and I ran across her tracks which would have been covered by snow in a matter of minutes. She was alone and when I found her she was laying in the snow crying. Hiking out of that almost cost me my life because we needed to go around the mountain and we accidentally crossed a frozen river which was covered by snow and it was early in the season (Thanksgiving). It took all day to get around the mountain and I spent hours in a thaw box recovering from hypothermia. We should have fallen through the ice and died.

So the moral of the story...I'm not going to throw my entire life away and abuse the privilege of carrying a gun by shooting someone in an act of aggression. This would better serve as an option to protect myself and others if a situation requires that I step up and lend a hand.

I'm sure there are many out there like me who would do the same.