New CTS-V Specs

primetime · #1 06-12-2008, 08:48 PM

Fseth..Don't worry about it man...I'm in total agreeance with you.. Just like you said..It doesn't matter if GM "chooses" not to make cars like BMW's...the fact is they don't...

Thats like saying, yeah I'm fully capable of scoring 30 pts a night in a BBall game without a doubt, but I "choose" to only score 20...Yeah ok, so basically you possess the ability to be great, but you just don't want to play hard to be at that level..Thats even worse then never having the ability at all!!!

The CTS-V is a fantastic vehicle...but its not on the level of an M...And since GM "chooses" (per Gresch) not to step their game up consistantly...It will never be on the level of an M...

Wagner · #2 06-12-2008, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primetime

Fseth..Don't worry about it man...I'm in total agreeance with you.. Just like you said..It doesn't matter if GM "chooses" not to make cars like BMW's...the fact is they don't...

Thats like saying, yeah I'm fully capable of scoring 30 pts a night in a BBall game without a doubt, but I "choose" to only score 20...Yeah ok, so basically you possess the ability to be great, but you just don't want to play hard to be at that level..Thats even worse then never having the ability at all!!!

The CTS-V is a fantastic vehicle...but its not on the level of an M...And since GM "chooses" (per Gresch) not to step their game up consistantly...It will never be on the level of an M...

I think G's point is GM doesn't choose to price its rides at 65K or better, like the M3 does or near the 100K mark like a M6/M5. It's not as if you aren't paying hand over fist for that "refinement".

FSETH · #3 06-12-2008, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wagner

I think G's point is GM doesn't choose to price its rides at 65K or better, like the M3 does or near the 100K mark like a M6/M5. It's not as if you aren't paying hand over fist for that "refinement".

What about hte Caddy XLR Roadster @ $82k? You could buy that or a 650i convert for the same price? Which would you chose? Which one is the better overall car?

What G said was also like saying where is Ferrari's sub $70k M3 beater?

Of course you pay for refinement. I never said the M3 was cheap. If it were a cost contest the Caddy would win (only by a few grand), but we were talking about the better car, not the cheaper car.

Wagner · #4 06-13-2008, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FSETH

What about hte Caddy XLR Roadster @ $82k? You could buy that or a 650i convert for the same price? Which would you chose? Which one is the better overall car?

What G said was also like saying where is Ferrari's sub $70k M3 beater?

Of course you pay for refinement. I never said the M3 was cheap. If it were a cost contest the Caddy would win (only by a few grand), but we were talking about the better car, not the cheaper car.

I thought we were discussing overall product, and that includes costs. You found one Cadillac that cost over 80K, still far below the price of a M5/6. The point has been made, in opinion the BMW could be considered a better overall car as long as you didn't mind the 20-30% higher cost. G's point is the senseless "this must be a lesser vehicle" attitude instead of a more open minded, "..all that for $50K??"

You could make the same argument in favor of a Hyundai Genesis

IMO and my experience with BMW from the multitude I've had, they build very good overall packages, their electronics suck and will never be as good as a Japanese ride, their price is far higher then any US and standard model Asian rides. Their competition is MB and Audi, and that is who they were focusing on. BMW IMO now looks very hard at competition from Acura/Lexus when deciding a new line-up. What does that say? Have I had better, cheaper cars then BMW? IMO yes, my 350Z hands down was nicer then my E46 M3 IMO..handled better by far and after $1,500 in mods it put down better power numbers (still only costing me a total under $30,000). My 996, while cool and fun, couldn't hold a candle to the 350Z for what I wanted. My 5 and 6 had more electrical and configuration issues then I'd ever seen on a BMW. So.....does BMW build a superior car? Probably, when it actually does everything it was designed to do. Does the Roundel on the hood automatically make it superior to "lesser" models? Not in my opinion. Is cost a factor in comparing the vehicles? Most definitely. You can't over look it and if you can, you should be giving more to charity

Juanted · #5 06-13-2008, 07:34 AM

Test-drove the CTS. Was very impressed. Told them to call me when they got the V in.

To make a blanket statement about a car without test-driving it is, well... dumb. To likewise say that GM can't build a car to compete with BMW is just as ignorant. Shit, look at the Vette!

I love bimmers, but as Gresch said, I'm a car guy first and foremost. If the CTS-V delivers, I will certainly consider it.

Juan

Thunder22 · #6 06-13-2008, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaefer

Test-drove the CTS. Was very impressed. Told them to call me when they got the V in.

To make a blanket statement about a car without test-driving it is, well... dumb. To likewise say that GM can't build a car to compete with BMW is just as ignorant. Shit, look at the Vette!

I love bimmers, but as Gresch said, I'm a car guy first and foremost. If the CTS-V delivers, I will certainly consider it.

Juan

Michelle · #7 06-13-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gresch

You screen name is blue.

Carry on.

FSETH · #8 06-13-2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaefer

To make a blanket statement about a car without test-driving it is, well... dumb. To likewise say that GM can't build a car to compete with BMW is just as ignorant. Shit, look at the Vette!
Juan

The Vette is a different story. As great of a performance car as the Vette is, the interior is complete garbage. Until recently I couldn't tell the difference between the interior of a Pontiac Sunfire or a Vette. GM has to scrimp somewhere to package all that performance into a vehicle to keep the price reasonable and they definately chose to do so with interior refinement and material quality. The Vette has a hell of an engine, chassis and underpinnings, but that is where it greatness stops. As a pure sports car the Vette is awesome, but it is not very refined either.

Once again, I never said GM couldn't build a sedan to compete with BMW, MB, Audi, etc., I just said they don't (IMO).

Also, as arrogant as it is I stand behind my statement that even though I havn't driven the second gen CTS-V I know it is not a more complete car than the M3.

By the way, does anyone here actually prefer how poofy, cushy and gaudy the typical American luxury car's interior is compared to European luxury cars? It absolutely drives me crazy.

Thunder22 · #9 06-13-2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FSETH

The Vette is a different story. As great of a performance car as the Vette is, the interior is complete garbage. .

Once again you're offering opinion without having seen or driven the car you're talking about.

if you want to have a discussion about cars, you should really have more current factual knowledge. sorry if that's harsh, but this conversation is moronic.

FSETH · #10 06-13-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wagner

I thought we were discussing overall product, and that includes costs. You found one Cadillac that cost over 80K, still far below the price of a M5/6. The point has been made, in opinion the BMW could be considered a better overall car as long as you didn't mind the 20-30% higher cost. G's point is the senseless "this must be a lesser vehicle" attitude instead of a more open minded, "..all that for $50K??"

You could make the same argument in favor of a Hyundai Genesis

IMO and my experience with BMW from the multitude I've had, they build very good overall packages, their electronics suck and will never be as good as a Japanese ride, their price is far higher then any US and standard model Asian rides. Their competition is MB and Audi, and that is who they were focusing on. BMW IMO now looks very hard at competition from Acura/Lexus when deciding a new line-up. What does that say? Have I had better, cheaper cars then BMW? IMO yes, my 350Z hands down was nicer then my E46 M3 IMO..handled better by far and after $1,500 in mods it put down better power numbers (still only costing me a total under $30,000). My 996, while cool and fun, couldn't hold a candle to the 350Z for what I wanted. My 5 and 6 had more electrical and configuration issues then I'd ever seen on a BMW. So.....does BMW build a superior car? Probably, when it actually does everything it was designed to do. Does the Roundel on the hood automatically make it superior to "lesser" models? Not in my opinion. Is cost a factor in comparing the vehicles? Most definitely. You can't over look it and if you can, you should be giving more to charity

I hear you Wagner, but the CTS-V is probably going to land just a few grand shy of an M3 sedan. We are most likely not talking tens of thousands of dollars or 20%-30% more. M5/M6's are way out of the CTS-V's league and really aren't even comparable.

I also agree that the 350Z is a great car and value. However, my money would go to the M3. The interior of the 350Z is a big turn off and I also prefer the exterior styling of the M3 just a little better, but the 350Z is a great car. I really like the current body style.