Hey Eric...We missed you in the discussion.

No really!

I think it is a combo of these things;

Greed
Selfishness
Stupidity
Kevin Federline

There was never a system of integrity and honesty. The difference between today and 50 years ago is that today, due to modern technology, there are more ways to cheat and steal from people. But that has always been the goal.

The basis of 90% of businesses is some combination of advertising, sales and promotion, i.e. the idea of trying to convince someone to buy something that they would not otherwise buy.

As technology has come about, the amount of advertising and promotion has increased to the point that we have become saturated with it. We spend more effort on trying to sell our products than we do on trying to produce better products.

The measure of how healthy our economy has become is no longer measured in production, but rather measured by how many times we can do eachother's laundry. As a result, we have become very unproductive -- the main reason for our huge trade deficit.

But either way you look at it, this is capitalism. The regulation all of the politicians are saying we need -- that is called socialism. Capitalism is a "free market", i.e. no government intervention. And this bailout package? That is called fascism or corporatism -- government intervention to help the large corporations.

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

You we're not on this earth 50 years ago I was.

And while you are partially correct regarding the fact that people have always cheated;
years ago there was heaps and bounds more integrity and honesty among people and
business owners than there is today.

Ask anyone who has lived long enough the have witnesses the change and they will tell
you that without a doubt compared to 50 years ago this world is rotten to the core.......

The difference now is that people are not one bit ashamed of their conduct. In fact some wear it as a badge of honor

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"What you hear in a great jazz band is the sound of democracy. “The jazz band works best when participation is shaped by intelligent communication.”
Harmony happens whenever different parts get to form a whole by means of congruity, concord, symetry, consistency, conformity, correspondence, agreement, accord, unity, consonance…….

But that is due to technology. 50 years ago you had to look someone in the eye and shake their hand to do business with them. Now they go to your website and pay with a credit card, or you send them an email, or a fax, and you ship the item to them.

Even 25 years ago, when my dad ran my company, he used to hand-deliver records (yes, that was before CDs) to most of the NY-based production studios we dealt with, and he used to have lunch with the owners on a regular basis. When they needed a certain kind of music, they would call and we would do a search for them.

Today I have a number of customers who I have never even had a telephone conversation with, and I have never met most of them even once. They use the search engine at your website, download MP3s, email you to request a license, and you email them the bill. No personal contact.

Everyone is just so busy all the time that nobody wants to be bothered building personal relationships. And unfortunately, there is not as much guilt in ripping off a stranger who you have never even met or talked to. And I think that is the reason why the world has grown "rotton to the core".

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

You just prove my point. Thanks
But it's not due to technology. Technology
doesn't make people idiots, or thieves, or
any of the things i have already mentioned.

It's people who do those things.... pure and simple

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"What you hear in a great jazz band is the sound of democracy. “The jazz band works best when participation is shaped by intelligent communication.”
Harmony happens whenever different parts get to form a whole by means of congruity, concord, symetry, consistency, conformity, correspondence, agreement, accord, unity, consonance…….

I think Eric made a good point. I would bet that people in the 60's had these same thoughts and tendancies of people today, but the technology of todays world has given people an opportunity to more easily act upon those thoughts. It is a much less personal world we live in compared to 50 years ago.

Look at Ebay for example, you can put a nonexistent item up for sale and take the customers money without ever actually selling anything. You couldn't do that so easily 50 years ago, but if you could, I am sure people would have.

I would say that greed is still the underlying issue and it has been around forever, not just the last few years.

NYTIMES IN 2003: BUSH PROPOSED TIGHTENING OVERSIGHT OF FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC - THE DEMOCRATS OF CONGRESS BLOCKED IT

THE ENTIRE CRISIS IS THE FAULT OF THE DEMOCRATS OF CONGRESS.

Notice the strong objections of Democrats, many of whom profited handsomely. The same hypocritical bunch who are today blaming the administration's policies.

VOTE ACCORDINGLY.


September 11, 2003
New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae
By STEPHEN LABATON

The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.

The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt -- is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.

''There is a general recognition that the supervisory system for housing-related government-sponsored enterprises neither has the tools, nor the stature, to deal effectively with the current size, complexity and importance of these enterprises,'' Treasury Secretary John W. Snow told the House Financial Services Committee in an appearance with Housing Secretary Mel Martinez, who also backed the plan.

Mr. Snow said that Congress should eliminate the power of the president to appoint directors to the companies, a sign that the administration is less concerned about the perks of patronage than it is about the potential political problems associated with any new difficulties arising at the companies.

The administration's proposal, which was endorsed in large part today by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, would not repeal the significant government subsidies granted to the two companies. And it does not alter the implicit guarantee that Washington will bail the companies out if they run into financial difficulty; that perception enables them to issue debt at significantly lower rates than their competitors. Nor would it remove the companies' exemptions from taxes and antifraud provisions of federal securities laws.

The proposal is the opening act in one of the biggest and most significant lobbying battles of the Congressional session.

After the hearing, Representative Michael G. Oxley, chairman of the Financial Services Committee, and Senator Richard Shelby, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, announced their intention to draft legislation based on the administration's proposal. Industry executives said Congress could complete action on legislation before leaving for recess in the fall.

''The current regulator does not have the tools, or the mandate, to adequately regulate these enterprises,'' Mr. Oxley said at the hearing. ''We have seen in recent months that mismanagement and questionable accounting practices went largely unnoticed by the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight,'' the independent agency that now regulates the companies.

''These irregularities, which have been going on for several years, should have been detected earlier by the regulator,'' he added.

The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight, which is part of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, was created by Congress in 1992 after the bailout of the savings and loan industry and concerns about regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which buy mortgages from lenders and repackage them as securities or hold them in their own portfolios.

At the time, the companies and their allies beat back efforts for tougher oversight by the Treasury Department, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or the Federal Reserve. Supporters of the companies said efforts to regulate the lenders tightly under those agencies might diminish their ability to finance loans for lower-income families. This year, however, the chances of passing legislation to tighten the oversight are better than in the past.

Reflecting the changing political climate, both Fannie Mae and its leading rivals applauded the administration's package. The support from Fannie Mae came after a round of discussions between it and the administration and assurances from the Treasury that it would not seek to change the company's mission.

After those assurances, Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chief executive, endorsed the shift of regulatory oversight to the Treasury Department, as well as other elements of the plan.

''We welcome the administration's approach outlined today,'' Mr. Raines said. The company opposes some smaller elements of the package, like one that eliminates the authority of the president to appoint 5 of the company's 18 board members.

Company executives said that the company preferred having the president select some directors. The company is also likely to lobby against the efforts that give regulators too much authority to approve its products.

Freddie Mac, whose accounting is under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission and a United States attorney in Virginia, issued a statement calling the administration plan a ''responsible proposal.''

The stocks of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae fell while the prices of their bonds generally rose. Shares of Freddie Mac fell $2.04, or 3.7 percent, to $53.40, while Fannie Mae was down $1.62, or 2.4 percent, to $66.74. The price of a Fannie Mae bond due in March 2013 rose to 97.337 from 96.525.Its yield fell to 4.726 percent from 4.835 percent on Tuesday.

Fannie Mae, which was previously known as the Federal National Mortgage Association, and Freddie Mac, which was the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation, have been criticized by rivals for exerting too much influence over their regulators.

''The regulator has not only been outmanned, it has been outlobbied,'' said Representative Richard H. Baker, the Louisiana Republican who has proposed legislation similar to the administration proposal and who leads a subcommittee that oversees the companies. ''Being underfunded does not explain how a glowing report of Freddie's operations was released only hours before the managerial upheaval that followed. This is not world-class regulatory work.''

Significant details must still be worked out before Congress can approve a bill. Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing.

''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.

''I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,'' Mr. Watt said.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...gewanted=print

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Thanks Benny! Every Breath Bernanke Takes

i'd say people and greed...all these companies and CEOs have salaries and bonuses in the millions of dollars while their company is going bankrupt...these people should be sent straight to jail...

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01 4.4


P5 card hacked
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