Thanks for your post... but I actually didn't unload the rear by snapping off the gas and unweighting the rear... [I know that in many cars - particularly those designed to have the rear end weighted for maximum cornering grip, like the 911 - snapping off the gas in mid-corner will result in unweighting the rear wheels, reducing the size of the rear tire contact patches, and then it's spin city.]
But in my case, I (intentionally) broke the rear wheels loose with the throttle in mid turn, which is why the back end swung. So the question is, in this case, is backing off the throttle a better remedy than lifting entirely and relying on steering alone???

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- Aaron

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In addition to proper modulation of the gas, it is extremely important not to overcorrect on your steering input and/or hold the wheel in a static corrected position. 99% of people will turn the wheel too far and hold it for too long when trying to correct their direction in a skid rather than making continuous steering adjustments that match the action of the skid.

I most important tip I ever picked up in a driving course was that when the tail starts to swing out, you need to point the wheel along the path you want the car to follow (think of an imaginary cross-hair attached to the 12 o'clock position on your wheel that you want to keep pointing at where you want the car to go). Then, as the tail starts to swing back, rather than hold the wheel position (which results in overcorrection) you must smoothly and continually adjust and bring the wheel back along the path you want the car to follow.

For example, if the tail starts to slide in a corner, rather than cranking the wheel in the opposite direction and holding it until the tail starts to aggressively swing back (which will result in overcorrection), merely move the wheel just enough in the opposite direction so that you continue to steer along the path of the turn (with a slight and smooth reduction in right pedal if dictated). As the tail starts to come back, match it by moving the wheel back at the same pace and continuing to steer along the path you want the car to follow. If you do this properly and smoothly you will find the tail will come back right on line the first time with no further "tail wagging".

It's a very cool feeling when you can control a skid as smoothly as you can with this technique, but it requires patience and discipline not to do what your reflexes tell you to and yank the wheel too hard, too far, and hold it too long.

Yes, there's a good chance that, even though I was cognizant of the proper technique, I may have over-corrected. As I described - unlike instances where I've practiced the tail slide in controlled circumstances - I was driving pretty fast, and the back came around VERY hard, and quick... so I can't be sure that my corrections were just right. [I did my best ]
But it sounds like what I've subsequently read about modulating the throttle instead of an abrupt 'both feet out' technique is the better way to go in this situation.
{B-Line, do you care to weigh-in on this?}

Thanks for the suggestions!

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- Aaron

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Sorry for my late chime in..

- Ok, here's the first thing you need to remember. When you are driving a car, what you really are is a "weight distribution engineer" meaning all the work you do prior to a turn should "set-up" the vehicle to have weight on the right portion of the car.

B&D is correct. A "Tank Slap" is a term that comes from motorcycles when all the fuel is "SLAPPED" from one side of the tank to the other. This force of fuel and weight change can be very dangerous. We use this same term for cars even though the fuel in your car is probably not heavy enough to bring your car around. (BTW, I will readily admit, I have slapped many tanks in my day, even with experience, it happens.)
- Ok, so now lets think about what tank slapping really is: As B&D stated, you are UNSETTLING the weight on the portion of the car where you need it. And it's a lot of weight. All of sudden, you correct, and you are throwing all that weight, very fast, to the opposite side of the car. THE CAR HAS NO FOOTING. As a result, the rear does not "GRAB" it breaks "free".

It's hard to say what to do in this situation. Really depends what's coming up in front of you. The best answer I can give is, BE SMOOTH... No matter what you decide to do.. DO IT SMOOTHLY.. Nothing fast or hard or abrubt. That will only make the situation worse.

Also, never look at the wall you are about to smack in to.. BIG MISTAKE !!
Always look ***WHERE YOU WANT THE CAR TO BE***** not, Where the car is going...

If you keep your eyes where you want the car to be, react smootly, calmly, keeping your eyes on the "safe exit" your chances are much better of regaining control of the car. You are giving the vehicle a chance to "resettle the weight" while applying throttle, lifting throttle, or easing the brake. Sometimes you will find a little blip of throttle might be want you need. That will put the weight onto the rear wheels, expanding your tire patch and giving you more traction.

B

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"When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss

Oh yeah, AWD...

Ok, here's a trickey one. The whole point of AWD is to have your front wheels pulling you while your rear wheels are pushing you.
So, if the rear breaks free, I would want to put my foot down (accelerate, it's counter intuitive though until you get used to it.), smoothly of course. That would allow my front wheels to pull me out of the turn even though my rears are just spinning.

The thing about AWD that people need to remember, if your foot is not on the gas, it is no different than a RWD. So, in bad weather, you are much better off driving in a lower gear with power going to your front wheels. If you get in a jam, you have the front wheels pulling you out.

Once you hit the brake or lift, there is no difference.

AWD is a great feature for traction. You just have to know how to use it.
I see plenty of soccer moms driving around in SUV's in the snow that think there safe because they have AWD, in reality, they have no concept how to use it. You really need to push the car and accelerate when basic instinct is to slow.

So my answer to the AWD question is, if your rear breaks free, try to accelerate **EYES UP** **EYES AT SAFE EXIT** and smoothly accelerate towards your goal.

B

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"When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss

that is the gospel as moses wrote in the car control bible people... live by it. =)

Makes sense... thanks!

Regarding the RWD 328Ci, again, the 'fun' started when I (intentionally) broke the rear free by nailing the gas hard enough to invoke a wicked power oversteer (as opposed to lifting and getting the classic weight-shift loss of traction that you described... ) Don't know if this changes your advice at all for this particular situation, as lifting off the throttle once I was already swinging hard probably didn't have much of a weight transfer affect. (?)
My real question about that occurrence was if backing off the throttle would truly have been better than lifting completely... and it seems like the answer is yes for multiple reasons!

__________________
- Aaron

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