The end of F1 in progress

vinuneuro · #1 12-04-2008, 06:26 PM

Spec engine from 2011. 1.8L turbo w/ KERS. I wonder how Mercedes feels about this. Ferrari have already threatened to leave F1 if spec engines are introduced. Everyone in the world knows they consider themselves to first and foremost pride themselves as an engine maker.

If this goes through I will def be done with F1. It's already getting to be quite ridiculous with Bernie's antics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by autosport.com

Formula One's team owners will present a package of radical cost-cuts to the FIA World Motor Sport Council next week, as they move to head off the threat of a standard engine being introduced.

Following unanimous agreement in a meeting of the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) in London on Thursday, it was confirmed in a statement by the organisation that the teams plan to propose a new low-cost engine for 2011 and the implementation of substantial cost-cutting measures for the next two years.

These are believed to include drastically reducing the current 30,000km testing limit by half.

"FOTA met today in London to address the relevant commercial challenges that are faced by Formula One," read the statement. "The teams had previously unanimously agreed measures that will significantly reduce costs in 2009.

"In today's meeting the teams have agreed to further measures implementing substantial cost cutting for 2009 and 2010, and additional initiatives to improve the show.

"Furthermore it is unanimously agreed that a new low cost engine will be introduced in 2011."

The FIA has asked for teams to come up with concrete proposals to reduce costs in the sport, with FIA president Max Mosley warning that F1 is currently unsustainable. Such moves are set to have a new urgency from tomorrow, with Honda's F1 future in serious doubt.

The new engine formula being proposed is believed to be based on a 1.8-litre turbocharged unit featuring energy recovery systems and designed to consume 30% less than current fuel levels.

FOTA also confirmed that it will make proposals to spice up qualifying. The new idea being considered consists of all cars being on track at the same time with the same amount of fuel, with the slowest driver being eliminated after each lap.

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B-Line · #2 12-04-2008, 06:40 PM

Couldn't it also mean that we will finally see some racing instead of the fancy parade laps were all used to by now?

Dannyell · #3 12-04-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

Spec engine from 2011. 1.8L turbo w/ KERS. I wonder how Mercedes feels about this. Ferrari have already threatened to leave F1 if spec engines are introduced. Everyone in the world knows they consider themselves to first and foremost pride themselves as an engine maker.

If this goes through I will def be done with F1. It's already getting to be quite ridiculous with Bernie's antics.

Agree...Bernie is turning this into a circus...he should give himself a medal for that...

vinuneuro · #4 12-04-2008, 06:44 PM

The lack of passing is because of the car's aero dynamics. That'll change completely in 09 with what are essentially completely new cars. The spec engine is just to reduce costs.

F1 has always been about the pinnacle and forefront of motorsport and automotive technology. Spec anything is as much the antithesis of that as can be. Why should anyone even bother if the substance that defines the sport is gone.

B-Line · #5 12-04-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

F1 has always been about the pinnacle and forefront of motorsport and automotive technology. Spec anything is as much the antithesis of that as can be. Why should anyone even bother if the substance that defines the sport is gone.

I race in a spec series and think it's great. Rather than, "He who spends the most money wins!"

Ferrari doesn't race to develop engines, they make a lot more money selling merchandise than they do actual automobiles. But they also spend more money than anyone to secure that branding.

Maybe we'll see a little more competitive racing like what exists in NASCAR.
Cause there is no disputing that the DRIVING in F1 is amazing but the RACING in Nascar is unparalleled.

I'm not suggesting I like Bernie. I don't even know what the rules are for F1 anymore. But I don't think it's such a bad thing, taking away anti-lock brakes, traction control, unfair aerodynamics, and putting the teams on a more even playing field..

AzNMpower32 · #6 12-04-2008, 06:52 PM

What utter nonsense. What's next? They should all race using a horse and carriage. That'll streamline things.

vinuneuro · #7 12-04-2008, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

I race in a spec series and think it's great. Rather than, "He who spends the most money wins!"

Ferrari doesn't race to develop engines, they make a lot more money selling merchandise than they do actual automobiles. But they also spend more money than anyone to secure that branding.

Maybe we'll see a little more competitive racing like what exists in NASCAR.
Cause there is no disputing that the DRIVING in F1 is amazing but the RACING in Nascar is unparalleled.

I'm not suggesting I like Bernie. I don't even know what the rules are for F1 anymore. But I don't think it's such a bad thing, taking away anti-lock brakes, traction control, unfair aerodynamics, and putting the teams on a more even playing field..

Spec series might be great for you, but it's not what F1 is about. Never has been.

Don't forget that for the automakers in F1, the only meaningful technology that carries over to their production vehicles is from engine development.

As far as clearly defining the importance of engine development to Ferrari (and Toyota):

Quote:

Ferrari in quit threat over standard engine

Ferrari have issued a bombshell warning that they will reconsider their participation in Formula One if the FIA presses ahead with the introduction of a standard engine.

On a day when the FIA confirmed it was still pushing on with its plans to introduce standard engines in F1, Ferrari became the second team to publicly threaten to withdraw from the sport if the concept goes ahead.
In a statement issued following a board meeting at Ferrari's Maranello headquarters, the team made it clear that they did not believe the move to standard powerplants was right for F1.

"Whilst reiterating its wholehearted commitment to a substantial and needed reduction in costs in Formula One, starting with propulsion, the Ferrari Board of Directors expressed strong concerns regarding plans to standardise engines as it felt that such a move would detract from the entire raison of a sport with which Ferrari has been involved continuously since 1950, a raison d'etre based principally on competition and technological development," said the statement.

"The Board of Directors expressed the opinion that should these key elements be diminished, it would have to re-evaluate, with its partners the viability of continuing its presence in the sport."

Ferrari's statement came less than an hour after Toyota team president John Howett told autosport.com that the Japanese manufacturer would almost certainly be out of F1 if the standard engine idea went ahead.
Howett also suggested that other manufacturers would follow suit.
"I think you will see manufacturers potentially leaving F1 if there is a standard engine," Howett told autosport.com. "I don't think any of the manufacturers want a homogenized engine.

"I think the outcome depends partially on the FIA and the World Motor Sport Council, and whether they have a mind to press through with the idea."

The FIA has already opened the tender for the supply of standard engines from 2010 to 2012, with the governing body claiming several 'parties' had expressed an interest in applying for the deal.

Although it has widely been talked about that manufacturers would withdraw from F1 if the standard engine idea went through, Ferrari's decision to go public with their quit threat is a major development - as the Italian manufacturer have previously shied away from such dramatic statements.

It comes with Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo heading the Formula One Teams' Association's (FOTA) effort to coordinate with the FIA a package of rules changes.

Obviously this couldn't be quite so literal given the aero rules of the last few years, but ask anyone that followed F1 this last season what the difference was between Red Bull and STR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enzo Ferrari

Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.

Dannyell · #8 12-04-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

Spec series might be great for you, but it's not what F1 is about. Never has been.

Don't forget that for the automakers in F1, the only meaningful technology that carries over to their production vehicles is from engine development.

As far as clearly defining the importance of engine development to Ferrari (and Toyota):

Obviously this couldn't be quite so literal given the aero rules of the last few years, but ask anyone that followed F1 this last season what the difference was between Red Bull and STR.
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Vettel stomped Red Bull Renault with his Ferrari engine

They need to keep Ferrari in...If a team as high profile as the Scuderia is quitting then F1 will loose even more €€€, contracts, fans..etc...it will be a new begging to an end

B-Line · #9 12-04-2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

Don't forget that for the automakers in F1, the only meaningful technology that carries over to their production vehicles is from engine development.

Your quoting from Ferrari. The team that spends the most money be leaps and bounds, on racing and engine development.
- I'm guessing many of the other teams are happy about the potential of not having to spend $300 Mil, etc.
-

vinuneuro · #10 12-04-2008, 07:40 PM

F1 isn't the sport to come to if you've got a light wallet. There are plenty of other series to operate on a low-budget. And for one thing the majority of constructors are OEM's. Out of those that aren't, only one is really struggling for money..Williams. STR to a certain extent, Force India not really, Red Bull definitely not.

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