NBA Play Offs - Page 11

chilliwilli · #1 05-20-2009, 07:02 AM

Quicksilver touched on a very important point that many so-called enthusiasts fail to recognize. It annoys me when people mention that a pro athlete is "cocky" without even really knowing the player or have never even played that particular sport. Having personally played basketball up to collegiate-level...all the camps, training and practice...there's a factor that's incredibly necessary for each individual player that will affect the team, ultimately. That factor is mental toughness...this comes off to many as "cockiness". Call it what you wish...but mental toughness is taught starting in the peewee leagues. You hear coaches like Doc Rivers mentioning the importance of mental toughness in the post-season. Every pro-arena athlete must have this component in his/her arsenal.

Most people only see the physical game before them...but there's a mental aspect to the game as well. If only the players were wired, perhaps it would be more obvious. This cockiness...i.e. mental toughness is what Melo and Denver exhibited in game 1 but Kobe maintained while some team8's froze. It's the most necessary tool a teams star and the entire team must possess especially when playing in an opponents home-court. If the team does not exhibit this mental toughness, their star must...in basketball, often times, if a star player maintains mental toughness and catches fire, some team-mates awake from their slumber and follow lead.

It just annoys me when people mention that players are cocky...well maybe some don't know how to turn off the mental toughness off-court but they're doing exactly as they were trained. Imagine coming into the pro-circuit straight out of high school...all the anxiety that you may experience disappears the moment you exhibit mental toughness and your opponents will take note. Some of you who don't even play the sport won't have a clue what i'm talking about....

Let me also add that i'm neutral as i no longer follow teams...free agency killed that for me when i was a teenager. I now follow individual players and root for them anytime they make good, smart plays on the court. Their lives off-court is none of my damn business.

chilliwilli · #2 05-20-2009, 07:17 AM

By the way...i often moonlight as a technical director for on/off broadway shows in NYC...(the fella that controls the boards). Dr. J himself comes to see several shows i've worked on as he's an avid follower of theater...that and he's "friends" with some of the gals in the productions. Long story long...i've had several b-ball conversations with him and he's acknowledged that he believes the best basketball player currently in the world is Kobe. He made a very valid point, not to compare him with Jordan but something to take note of. He mentioned that there were several players that were able to effectively defend Jordan in his prime...players like Joe Dumars, Mitch Ritchmond, Clyde Drexler ...however, there isn't a single player, currently, that can effectively guard Kobe. And if there is, in a particular game or series, Kobe seems to make adjustments to control the matchup with an assassin-like mentality.

This was from the Dr. himself...and i couldn't argue as it's a valid point. Several other past players have reverberated the same, that Kobe is currently the best player in the world, including one of my all time favorite Tar Heel point guards, Kenny Smith, who played alongside Jordan.

Jerry West feels otherwise but he raises some good points as Lebron may edge Kobe in distributing the ball within offensive and scoring execution (assists). If Miami Heat were in the post-season, i assume D. Wade would be in similar debates.

There are great points in this thread but, StartX5, i believe most of your points are base-less and fueled by a dis-like of Kobe. If you feel otherwise, you need to expound on your statements. I suggest you join a neighborhood YMCA basketball league or tournament for just one season...then circle back with your thoughts...I guarantee there will be a different perspective.

NOVAX5 · #3 05-20-2009, 10:31 AM

Watch more basketball and football you will see how fast the score changes the end of the game. That sure will shut up a lot of people when the comment a little too soon. Add some dough on the spread, your heart would be dancing to new wave techno.

StartX5 · #4 05-20-2009, 11:12 AM

Novax5, you knew that i don't like Kobe period! Now thinking about WCF series, i am sure this is a great series. Last night game was great and it's Conf. Final game. I want to see Nuggests win the Conf. final. Of course, you, QS and Kobe's fans love to see Lakers win.
Will see.

asawadude · #5 05-20-2009, 04:12 PM

StartX5 and Dannyell -

Adding to Chilliwilli and Quicksilver's comments, I'll take it to different perspective. I've been a basketball junkie my entire life. I played organized basketball for 30 years, and when I wasn't playing in a league game, I was looking for a game at the local park or at the gym. IMHO, the best basketball is played on the street. Some of the best basketball players ever to play the game never made it to college. They didn't get the opportunity to play pro ball. But they owned the bragging rights because these guys could bring it against all comers, including NBA players.

Do you want to see the best basketball played on the face of the earth? Go down to the Cage in Greenwich or Rucker Park in Harlem. But be prepared to deal with the trash-talking and arrogance to go along with it, because it isn't the same game as the watered down basketball for the masses you watch on TV. The name of the game on the street is defile your opponent in any way possible, including talking shit about his mama while you're taking him to the hole.

Let's talk about arrogance and Kobe, or more specifically, why Kobe is singled out in this discussion. Kobe is no different than any other great player who can talk the talk and walk the walk.

Let's start off with the white guy in the greatest ever discussion. After Larry Bird made four straight baskets with Rodman guarding him, he ran over to Chuck Daly and asked "who's guarding me, Chuck? Is anyone guarding me? You better get someone on me or I'm gonna go for 60." Is that not arrogance?

Or is your beef with Kobe (no pun intended) when he complained about the personnel make up of the Lakers in 2006 and threatened to sit out the season? Did it happen? Nope. Was he posturing? Yup. Did it work? The Lakers got Paul Gasol and reached the Finals.

Hmmm... Didn't Magic do the same thing in 1981? Except he took it one step further. It was either him or the coach, Paul Westhead. Result: A immediate world championship with Riley and 3 more shortly after.

What about Jordan whose will to win led him to do very questionable things? Like be seen in Atlantic City at the crap table the night before a playoff game against the Knicks? Or bet and lose $1.25 million on a round of golf? And to quit on his team to go play baseball? He seriously thought he would be a great baseball player because, after all, he is Michael Jordan. That is the epitome of arrogance.

Or perhaps you have an issue with Kobe's alleged rape incident in Eagle, Colorado, which from every indication was an adultery that went bad. Do we perhaps think that Mssrs. Bird, Jordan, and Johnson have lived the lives of saints? Heck, the greatest of all time, Wilt Chamberlain, slept with 10,000 women.

The message is "Don't hate the playa, hate the game."

By the way, LeBron had better win the Championship this year. With a $91.5 million payroll, that's a lot of coin for a small market team and LeBron isn't even maxed out yet. He's only making $14M this year, compared to Garnet at $24M. It takes 3 superstars on a team to create a dynasty. Cleveland might be able to land a Chris Bosh as rumored for 2010-2011, but that isn't going to be enough. If you look back, the Laker, Celtic, and Bull dynasties were anchored by 3 or more HOF level players. LeBron is a damn good player, but he can't do it by himself.

Krimson X · #6 05-20-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asawadude

By the way, LeBron had better win the Championship this year. With a $91.5 million payroll, that's a lot of coin for a small market team and LeBron isn't even maxed out yet. He's only making $14M this year, compared to Garnet at $24M. It takes 3 superstars on a team to create a dynasty. Cleveland might be able to land a Chris Bosh as rumored for 2010-2011, but that isn't going to be enough. If you look back, the Laker, Celtic, and Bull dynasties were anchored by 3 or more HOF level players. LeBron is a damn good player, but he can't do it by himself.

Well put. Good analysis!

Dannyell · #7 05-20-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asawadude

StartX5 and Dannyell -

The message is "Don't hate the playa, hate the game."

I never said anything negative about Kobe...nor any other basketball player..

I am just replying to people saying that Lebron makes no difference to CAVS..and that he is 'far behind' Kobe...Stupid to say such a thing...

asawadude · #8 05-20-2009, 06:04 PM

I apologize if I got it wrong.

LeBron is a difference maker and has a greater impact on the outcome of a game than any other player in the league, even more so than Kobe because Cleveland's offense runs through LeBron whereas play is initiated through the high post in the Laker's triangle offense. If there were a touch count in the NBA like in the NFL, LeBron would easily lead the league in touches.

LeBron is every bit as good as Kobe, but in different ways. DWade is every bit as good as both of them, but in different ways as well. They are different players, each with different strengths and weaknesses.

But for anyone to think that Kobe is not a top-tier player is incredibly short-sighted or simply not very knowledgeable about the game of basketball. In fact, for anyone to not include Tim Duncan as not a top-tier player is just plain wrong. 4 NBA rings, 2 MVP's, 1 ROY, 3 time NBA Finals MVP, 12 All-NBA teams, and 12 All Defensive Teams tells me that Tim Duncan has been one of the best basketball players of all time, in the same breath as Russell, Wilt, and Kareem. Kobe's hardware collection is right behind Tim's.

We can all agree that LeBron has helped turn a franchise around, but you have to give credit to Danny Ferry for bringing in players that complement LeBron and Mike Brown for putting a system that maximizes the benefits of LeBron's many skills. The Cavs have played great during the playoffs. But had KG been healthy, I gotta think that it would have been a Celtics - Cavs conference final and I have to think the Celtics would have won it. LeBron could have gone off for a triple-double 50 every night, but if you hold the rest of the team down to 40 points, the Cavs are definitely beatable.

NOVAX5 · #9 05-20-2009, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asawadude

...LeBron could have gone off for a triple-double 50 every night, but if you hold the rest of the team down to 40 points, the Cavs are definitely beatable...

Thats exactly what happened. He is going down with the Cavs. He is a high school dunk champion, remember? Not a Finals material. I rank him the same level with Tracy McGraddy, Vince Carter. Thats max. Not sure about the rest of the series though, but they look weak playing Orlando. Orlando owned them today, on their homecourt. If Lebron doesn't make it to the Finals and win the whole thing for the next few years, he is done. Probably get traded to the Knicks and stuck there with a whole bunch of NBA-D leaguers. You never know. Remember Jayson William? He got drafted behind Yao, He was the most talented guard at the time coming out from Duke, guess what? Motocycle accident ended his career, you never know what happens, so you better win RINGS now. Kobe has already accomplised that he wanted that is 3 RINGS with the Lakers. He doesn't need to prove anything. All he has to do is try to win another one, or keep the Lakers in Playoffs and Finals to sell more ticket and merchandise. Lebron is shown too much on TV thats about it. How soon you forget about Lakers Dynasty just recently. It will take Lebron another 5 or more years to be at Kobe's level. Anyway, ORL 1 - CAV 0.

Dannyell · #10 05-21-2009, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NOVAX5

Orlando owned them today

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