Would you say something? - Page 3

asawadude · #21 06-17-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata

I'm not sure how that could be harassment. He doesn't work for Laura so I'm not sure how his company being made aware of it first could lead to a claim of harassment. He makes sales call to her office. It would be akin to asking any visitor to her business to not refer to someone in an offensive tone or she could 86 them. Also, it's not a comment based on race, gender, religion, sexual preference, or some other identifiable trait or class.

Then again, I'm not in an environment where we're all hyper sensitive about harassment. We have rules but we're pretty much no holds barred in spite of them.

+1. Laura is entitled to control the physical environment within her operating facility up to and including what travels through the air. She has the right to mandate health, safety, and security guidelines.

Vendors are obligated to follow published dress codes of facilities they visit. If my company mandates the wearing of hard hats and work shoes while in the operating facility, then vendors are required to follow these guidelines. Vendors are subject to the same security checks including passing through metal detectors and inspection of briefcases, luggage, and food containers.

In my former company, we had grooming guidelines for both internal and external employees; guidelines which covered both cleanliness and clothing guidelines. I used the cleanliness guideline several times for inside employees who literally stunk up the place because of the physical nature of the work. I used to grooming guidelines for outside employees meeting the public because of excessive use of perfume and cologne.

There are possibly people who are allergic to cologne including those under Laura's employ. As an employer, you have the right to protect your people. It does not infringe upon the rights to wear cologne, but you do have the right to tell them to simply wear less.

Where the harassment comes in is how to state the case to the offending party. Finding a way to do it civilly is where Laura will have to draw on her experience as a business owner and manager of people.

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FSETH · #22 06-17-2009, 02:35 PM

^^ I agree.

By the way Laura, is this your guy?

YouTube - Mr Way Too Much Cologne Wearer

motordavid · #23 06-17-2009, 03:21 PM

L, I'm with the gang that says have a lil'chat with MrAromatic, one on one...
Use your common sense and conversational abilities; I've never known you
to be a shrinking violet or, to not be forthcoming and sincere in your conversations.
He'll get it or, he won't, but I would bet it's not the first time he's heard it,
and he will probably be appreciative.
GL,mD

Wagner · #24 06-17-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asawadude

+1. Laura is entitled to control the physical environment within her operating facility up to and including what travels through the air. She has the right to mandate health, safety, and security guidelines.

Vendors are obligated to follow published dress codes of facilities they visit. If my company mandates the wearing of hard hats and work shoes while in the operating facility, then vendors are required to follow these guidelines. Vendors are subject to the same security checks including passing through metal detectors and inspection of briefcases, luggage, and food containers.

In my former company, we had grooming guidelines for both internal and external employees; guidelines which covered both cleanliness and clothing guidelines. I used the cleanliness guideline several times for inside employees who literally stunk up the place because of the physical nature of the work. I used to grooming guidelines for outside employees meeting the public because of excessive use of perfume and cologne.

There are possibly people who are allergic to cologne including those under Laura's employ. As an employer, you have the right to protect your people. It does not infringe upon the rights to wear cologne, but you do have the right to tell them to simply wear less.

Where the harassment comes in is how to state the case to the offending party. Finding a way to do it civilly is where Laura will have to draw on her experience as a business owner and manager of people.

Right to control the environment, YES. However the person is NOT the environment, and more so is NOT employed by her. I live in a free hire/free fire state and I have to prove a case to fire someone if it looks suspicious or possibly bias. Rules for business are weird and defy logic, but they are the RULES. And rules your quoting apply to OSHA standards, not just company standards. SHE MUST GO TO THE COMPANY, not the person.

Please, Laura..listen to me on this...I've had to take a billion courses on this with dealing with the government. No employers / companies don't have any rights to say "anything" they want. And in a case of say this say that, the person claiming violation WILL win because the case wasn't built to prove them wrong.

Did you know for instance if I sent a contractor on site, they said something or looked at someone wrong in a 'sexual' manor that my entire company is now liable. The logic is that 'my company' should have knowledge in place so my employees don't make mistakes...BS I know but facts are facts.

Again...I have been DRILLED in this

realchef · #25 06-17-2009, 03:34 PM

You know guys,

There is a famous jerk restauranteur here in Santa Fe. He promotes as a fragrance free environment and will refuse to seat anyone wearing an openly detectable scent. He makes a big 'stink' about it once or twice a year to get into the paper along with a few other local cheapo stunts.

I think Laura falls into this category. Publish an open policy. Apply unilaterally.

www.trattorianostrani.com

Nelli is amazingly talented. Trained with Trotter.

He is a complete jackass.

Meiac09 · #26 06-17-2009, 04:04 PM

Aw come on, thats no fun. I say rub him down in the britney spears perfume next time he comes in...

cmyX6go · #27 06-17-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wagner

Please, Laura..listen to me on this...

I'm not saying anything. My original post was a "what would you do?" kind of question. The guy doesn't come in here enough for me to really lose any sleep over it. If, however, he was a multi million $ vendor or any vendor that I had to see on a regualr basis, you'd bet I'd be doing something. It looks like that something would be speaking to his boss or requesting someone else handle my account.

Thunder22 · #28 06-17-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmyX5go

I'm not saying anything. My original post was a "what would you do?" kind of question. The guy doesn't come in here enough for me to really lose any sleep over it. If, however, he was a multi million $ vendor or any vendor that I had to see on a regualr basis, you'd bet I'd be doing something. It looks like that something would be speaking to his boss or requesting someone else handle my account.

you know, we all forgot to ask this very important and basic question:

Is he a perfume/cologne salesman?

Cuz, you know, it's an entirely different situation if he is.

cmyX6go · #29 06-17-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gresch

you know, we all forgot to ask this very important and basic question:

Is he a perfume/cologne salesman?

Cuz, you know, it's an entirely different situation if he is.

You know he's not a perfume salesman

For the rest of you, don't listen to Gresch. He knows he turns me on when he plays stupid. I love those submissive types I can have my way with

The guy works for a trucking company.

asawadude · #30 06-17-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wagner

Right to control the environment, YES. However the person is NOT the environment, and more so is NOT employed by her. I live in a free hire/free fire state and I have to prove a case to fire someone if it looks suspicious or possibly bias. Rules for business are weird and defy logic, but they are the RULES. And rules your quoting apply to OSHA standards, not just company standards. SHE MUST GO TO THE COMPANY, not the person.

Please, Laura..listen to me on this...I've had to take a billion courses on this with dealing with the government. No employers / companies don't have any rights to say "anything" they want. And in a case of say this say that, the person claiming violation WILL win because the case wasn't built to prove them wrong.

Did you know for instance if I sent a contractor on site, they said something or looked at someone wrong in a 'sexual' manor that my entire company is now liable. The logic is that 'my company' should have knowledge in place so my employees don't make mistakes...BS I know but facts are facts.

Again...I have been DRILLED in this

Please, let's not throw OSHA in this.

OSHA only sets minimum safety guidelines as dictated by the industrial setting. Companies are allowed to set more stringent guidelines exceeding OSHA policy. OSHA inspectors will audit to see if the company guidelines meet OSHA compliance, and if the company's published guidelines exceed OSHA, they will audit and penalize performance based on the company guidelines, not OSHA guidelines.

As a business manager, anyone who steps into my workplace in under my jurisdiction to a degree and more so, if that person is a vendor soliciting my business, as opposed to me soliciting their business. If the vendor is sitting at my desk trying to sell me a product but his/her cellphone is ringing incessantly, I will ask him/her to shut off their phone until our business is completed. If they insist on scribbling notes to the point where conversation is no longer free-flowing, I will ask that person to stop taking notes and I will gladly help them recap our conversation for later review. And if that person's cologne or perfume bothers me to the point of distraction, I won't hesitate to mention it. Whether I do it courteously or simply hand them a bottle of Wet-ones and tell them to go wash depends on the person, the situation, and the nature of the business at hand. But that's me, and I don't expect anyone to follow suit.

But one thing I made sure - when vendors were in my place of business, it was fairly well understood that they were in my house, and if that they were going to take care of the things I asked for, I would take care of them.

Laura said this guy's cologne is so heavy, it sticks to her clothes. If she can smell it on herself, that's beyond reason. And the fact that it's Langerfeld (yuck), that's just plain reprehensible.

I was a labor manager for 3 years and a senior advisor to our corporate labor committees for the last 10 years prior to retiring. Something like this does not require the formality of actions approaching that of a Senate hearing. It can be handled quietly, discreetly, and with dignity.

As I said before, Laura will be best served by relying on her business instincts to find the right course of action. From the little I know about Laura, I'd say she has the business acumen to make the right call.

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