Home Forums Articles How To's FAQ Register
Go Back   Xoutpost.com > Off-topic > The Lounge
Fluid Motor Union
User Name
Password
Member List Premier Membership Today's Posts New Posts

Xoutpost server transfer and maintenance is occurring....
Xoutpost is currently undergoing a planned server migration.... stay tuned for new developments.... sincerely, the management


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-29-2010, 06:44 PM
motordavid's Avatar
RetiredBum & Semi-RenaissanceMan
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mtns of Western NC, & SW FLA
Posts: 16,833
motordavid will become famous soon enoughmotordavid will become famous soon enough
Porsche Seeks MPG/Emissions Concessions...

PCar, (and others) press for some relief on proposed new fuel economy/emissions standards. Gov't at "work". The embolden is mine.
BR, mD

MARCH 26, 2010Porsche Presses for Easier Fuel Rules

Sports-Car Maker Wants More Room to Maneuver Under Proposed Efficiency, Emission Standards


By VANESSA FUHRMANS

On the open road, few cars are faster than a Porsche 911. But in the race to meet new U.S. fuel-economy and emissions standards, the German sports-car maker may struggle to cross the finish line.

As the Obama administration gets ready in the coming days to finalize a package of new rules that would mandate increased fuel economy and curb cars' greenhouse-gas emissions, Porsche AG is one of a handful of niche sports-car makers pressing for special treatment and arguing that the proposed standards would hit them disproportionately hard.










The German auto maker would have one of the longest roads to travel to meet the regulations as they are currently proposed. That's because the targets are formulated in a way that would require Porsche and its high-octane roadsters to meet the same standards as many economy-car brands, such as Suzuki Motor Corp. To do so, Porsche would have to boost its fuel efficiency significantly more than other car makers.

The upshot, Porsche argued in documents it submitted to the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Transportation last November, is that the rules "would perversely require Porsche to become the fuel efficiency leader in the United States"—an impossible feat, it claims, without dramatically altering the sharp handling and other features that are Porsche's high-performance selling points.

"It's not that we can't do it, but we'd lose competitiveness," said Bernd Harling, Porsche's U.S. spokesman.

The company and its lobbyists have been pressing the case in reports and meetings with regulatory officials, hoping the government will hear their arguments for more room to maneuver. One recommendation is to let small, limited-line car makers, such as Porsche, apply easier targets to a greater portion of their sales volume.

But the issue, observers say, illustrates the difficulties of crafting fuel-economy and emissions regulations that are equitable and fine-tuned to the variation in cars while, at the same time, aren't ridden with loopholes to address the special needs of particular corporate interests.

Though the government shouldn't be favoring or disfavoring high-performance sports cars or other outliers, "the idea of continually giving exemptions is not a good approach to an industry that needs a clear signal of what the policy is going to be," said John Graham, dean of Indiana University's School of Public and Environmental Affairs, who helped craft auto fuel-economy regulations under President George W. Bush.

The new rules, formally proposed last fall and slated to be finalized by April 1, are still subject to potential tweaks. In the meantime, government regulatory officials say they won't comment on their final wording or Porsche and other auto makers' recommendations.

The proposals aim to boost the fuel economy of auto makers to a fleetwide average of 35.5 miles per gallon and reduce carbon-dioxide emissions to an average of 250 grams per mile per vehicle by 2016.

In trying to avoid pushing car makers simply to produce smaller cars to meet the standards, the rules are based largely according to a car's so-called footprint, or criteria such as the length of a car's wheelbase and track width. The smaller the footprint, the higher the miles-per-gallon target. The wheelbases of many sports cars are quite short for better handling. But that holds Porsche and others to the same targets, under the proposed rules, as small, already fuel-efficient cars.

Analysts say Jaguar Land Rover, whose officials also have met with administration officials during recent months, is in a similar situation. A spokesman for the company declined to comment beyond saying that it is "working on fuel efficiency and determining how the regulations will impact us."

The German car maker's backstop, though, is that Volkswagen AG is expected to complete a planned takeover of Porsche, which would allow it to offset its high-octane sports cars against Volkswagen's much broader fleet that includes smaller, more fuel-efficient models. But, says Porsche's Mr. Harling, "as a matter of principle it should be regulation that reasonably can be met by Porsche as a stand-alone company."

The sports-car maker has found little sympathy among fellow German manufacturers, which already stand to benefit from a concession in the rules that would allow low-volume auto makers, mostly foreign ones, to apply easier targets to a limited portion of their sales volume. The concession also applies to Porsche, which sold just under 20,000 cars in the U.S. in 2009 and 26,000 in 2008.

"We have to stretch [to meet the new targets] but we will get there, and so we don't complain," said Daimler AG Chief Executive Dieter Zetsche at the Geneva motor show earlier this month. "And I would prefer if others complain, they not do it in the name of their neighbors.
__________________
Ol'UncleMotor
From the Home Base of Pro Bono Punditry
and 50 Cent Opins...

Our Mtn Scenes, Car Pics, and Road Trip Pics on Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/4527537...7627297418250/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/4527537...7627332480833/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45275375@N00/

My X Page




Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links

  #2  
Old 04-06-2010, 02:20 AM
X5 Meister's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nordschleife
Posts: 5,486
X5 Meister is on a distinguished road
Interesting article, but nothing new really. Some car manufacturers have received exemptions from airbag inclusion and even crash testing. As an example just check out a window sticker of a Lamborghini or a Ferrari. Here's one from 2008. Good to know that you can spend a quarter million dollars and have less assured protection than in a $5000 Prius (or whatever the hell that pile of dung costs).
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-06-2010, 03:06 AM
Quicksilver's Avatar
Premier Member and retired relic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NORCAL
Posts: 17,206
Quicksilver will become famous soon enoughQuicksilver will become famous soon enough
Porsche has known about this for ages so why would Porsche argued in documents it submitted to the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Transportation last November, that the rules "would perversely require Porsche to become the fuel efficiency leader in the United States"—an impossible feat, it claims, without dramatically altering the sharp handling and other features that are Porsche's high-performance selling points.

I don't get it????
__________________
"What you hear in a great jazz band is the sound of democracy. “The jazz band works best when participation is shaped by intelligent communication.”
Harmony happens whenever different parts get to form a whole by means of congruity, concord, symetry, consistency, conformity, correspondence, agreement, accord, unity, consonance…….
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-06-2010, 12:47 PM
nom3rcy's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 860
nom3rcy is on a distinguished road
What is so hard to get? The government is mandating ridiculous standards in the auto industry and Porsche is calling them out on it.

Mandating a high economy average from a niche automaker like Porshce has such a minimal impact on the big picture, yet makes a HUGE impact politically. Pushing this legislation through has nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with their own bullshit agendas.

It makes me sick that people affecting our world are so incredibly inept.
__________________
12 X5 M - 06 X5 4.8iS - 03 X5 4.4i - 03 M5 - 02 X5 4.6is - 99 M3 Dinan S3 - 98 M3 - 92 850i-6 - 92 850i - 91 325ix - 89 M3 2.5 - and a few parts cars
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-06-2010, 03:29 PM
motordavid's Avatar
RetiredBum & Semi-RenaissanceMan
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mtns of Western NC, & SW FLA
Posts: 16,833
motordavid will become famous soon enoughmotordavid will become famous soon enough
nom3rcy,

, with you. That's why I tossed up that art. in the first place.

And, typical draconian ruling, based on "wheel base/foot print" of
car(s) in question, as it is obvious that a PCar with shorter wheelbase
is up against some econo-boxes. Also, for the ~40,000 cars that Porsche
sells here in the US per year, most lawn service companies put more crap in the air
in a week's worth of 2 stroke engine work, imo.
__________________
Ol'UncleMotor
From the Home Base of Pro Bono Punditry
and 50 Cent Opins...

Our Mtn Scenes, Car Pics, and Road Trip Pics on Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/4527537...7627297418250/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/4527537...7627332480833/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45275375@N00/

My X Page




Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-06-2010, 03:36 PM
JCL's Avatar
JCL JCL is offline
Premier Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 11,853
JCL will become famous soon enoughJCL will become famous soon enough
A Modest Proposal

I have no sympathy for Porsche in this case. They will be better off owned by Volkswagen, then they can average out their fuel economy stats with small diesel sedans. Or they could produce a smaller lighter vehicle, essentially a Lotus Elise for the masses, and bring their stats up that way. Instead they complain that they are being picked upon because they produce vehicles with a short wheelbase.

It is like when BMW produced the M5 with the V10 engine. There was no excuse for that decision, you could essentially only drive from filling station to filling station as the mileage and range were so ridiculous. Force them to improve the mileage, and you actually end up with a better vehicle, with the twin turbo V8 in the case of the M5. Better performance and 30-40% improvement in mileage? Bring on the regulations that cause decisions like that. Consumers win.

Porsche's problem is that they haven't cared about efficiency for years. They only got with direct injection last year or so. They were too busy engineering colour coded brake calipers and contasting stitching on the leather, and sports chrono packages, instead of working to improve something that mattered.

Why shouldn't Porsche be a fuel efficiency leader? They produce high technology small cars with good aerodynamics. God forbid they should get at least average fuel economy.

I don't think it is like air bag exemptions. Those only matter once (for the first full frontal impact) and then the problem is resolved, the person that bought the vehicle and who didn't believe it was important is dead anyway, a sort of a Darwinian award resolution to the problem. Fuel consumption, on the other hand, carries on for the life of the vehicle.

The alternative to legislating improved fuel consumption would be to raise gasoline to world prices, and then some. You could let the market sort it out. However, since fuel is being priced ridiculously cheaply, legislating average fuel consumption is one of the few options open.
__________________
2007 X3 3.0si, 6 MT, Premium, White

Retired:
2008 535i, 6 MT, M Sport, Premium, Space Grey
2003 X5 3.0 Steptronic, Premium, Titanium Silver

2002 325xi 5 MT, Steel Grey
2004 Z4 3.0 Premium, Sport, SMG, Maldives Blue
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-06-2010, 03:55 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago-burbs
Posts: 297
ravenheart is on a distinguished road
Forgive my ignorance here ... but I thought the MPG limit was just for not having to pay the gas gussler tax? IE if porsche cant meet the CAFE standard for a small car they get slapped with extra tax? If that is the case porsche need to stick their whining in their exaust pipes and get over it ... Ferrari and Lambo have been doing that for years - hell - even our Z4M had a $1k gas gussler tax.

Seems fair that if you make a poluting car you need to pay to mediate the damage? Unless ofcourse I am not understanding this right which is very likely
__________________
- Ravenheart
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-13-2010, 11:58 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 856
lo_jack is on a distinguished road
All of the German manufacturers have been seeking this abatement since well before the new CAFE standards were announced. They claim they should be exempt because they do 'low volume' (sub 400k units a year, I believe).

In fact it is called the "German Provision," but covers a couple Asian companies that do relatively few sales also. They don't typically make cars that get horrible mileage, however. This has been ongoing since middle of last year, but there has been little coverage of it.

If the government is serious about fuel economy and not just looking useful, they would hold everyone to the new standards.

Fuel Rules to Spare BMW, Daimler - WSJ.com
__________________
2001 E53 3.0 5pd
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:01 AM.
vBulletin, Copyright 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
© 2017 Xoutpost.com. All rights reserved. Xoutpost.com is a private enthusiast site not associated with BMW AG.
The BMW name, marks, M stripe logo, and Roundel logo as well as X3, X5 and X6 designations used in the pages of this Web Site are the property of BMW AG.
This web site is not sponsored or affiliated in any way with BMW AG or any of its subsidiaries.