Obama: Ayres is just some guy who lives in my neighborhood

[AVB-AMG]

Originally Posted by Wagner

Ah, where did I post to this thread again? Oh to say it was a political forum, which it is. Feel free not to enter it unless you want to see this chatter I respectfully ask that you don't enter a political forum to say "don't talk politics". Thanks for coming out though.

Also, it is sort of funny that 10 of your 33 posts are in Political forums on a BMW board

Wagner:

I am afraid you missed my point.

I recognize the difference and make the distinction between "chatter" and "talking politics" and when it digresses to "obsessive, silly and inconsequential" posts. From what I have been reading most recently of your posts, it seems like they are starting to voice what some (me), may interpret as somewhat of a superior attitude along with unpleasant sarcasm. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate well placed appropriate sarcasm, but yours are not of that vein.

Oh, by the way, I also went thought a short phase of experimenting using various "Smiles" but grew tired of their silliness, realizing that they ultimately can and usually do distract and detract from the point being made in the narrative. For such serious topics they tend to trivialize and juvenilize you and your points, having the opposite intended effect.

As far as posts go, as a previous owner of two BMW X5's and with my wife currently having a 335ci, more than 2/3's of my posts in this forum are on BMW-related topics, primarily for X5's and the X6, (sort of appropriate for the BMW X5world forum, don't you think....).
From what I can see the vast majority of your posts, of the 14,854 posts, (and counting.... at 11.3 posts per day!), have been made in the "Lounge" and now the politics sub-forum, and are non-BMW related. Are you still interested in discussing BMW's at all or just focusing on politics?

I am curious. Do you also do a "cut & past" of your posts here on some other political blog which would be a more appropriate venue for this topic and where you would be exposed to even more different opinions? If so, which one?

AVB-AMG

[Wagner]

Originally Posted by AVB-AMG

Wagner:

I am afraid you missed my point.

I recognize the difference and make the distinction between "chatter" and "talking politics" and when it digresses to "obsessive, silly and inconsequential" posts. From what I have been reading most recently of your posts, it seems like they are starting to voice what some (me), may interpret as somewhat of a superior attitude along with unpleasant sarcasm. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate well placed appropriate sarcasm, but yours are not of that vein.

Oh, by the way, I also went thought a short phase of experimenting using various "Smiles" but grew tired of their silliness, realizing that they ultimately can and usually do distract and detract from the point being made in the narrative. For such serious topics they tend to trivialize and juvenilize you and your points, having the opposite intended effect.

As far as posts go, as a previous owner of two BMW X5's and with my wife currently having a 335ci, more than 2/3's of my posts in this forum are on BMW-related topics, primarily for X5's and the X6, (sort of appropriate for the BMW X5world forum, don't you think....).
From what I can see the vast majority of your posts, of the 14,854 posts, (and counting.... at 11.3 posts per day!), have been made in the "Lounge" and now the politics sub-forum, and are non-BMW related. Are you still interested in discussing BMW's at all or just focusing on politics?

I am curious. Do you also do a "cut & past" of your posts here on some other political blog which would be a more appropriate venue for this topic and where you would be exposed to even more different opinions? If so, which one?

AVB-AMG

Wow you have a lot of gaul for someone brand new to a forum to be so direct in your opinions, amazing. I guess that is the 'joy' for lack of a better word, of the Internet.

Not sure what your point is here. You don't like reading political threads that what, you don't agree with? Don't like the tone of? or Can't express an opinion on? Frankly I don't really care as you seem to be the ONLY person who has ever expressed this in the years I've been on this forum.

I'll give you credit for trying your little jabs such as "cut and paste" and what not. Really I'd prefer that you simply address an opinion, but I'm guessing you can't for one reason or another.

[GUINNESS]

Ummm, for those people who do not feel like reading posts 9 thru 13, let me summarize with a picture and Webster's definition....

dictionary results for: off-topic
Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English - Cite This Source - Share This Main Entry: off-topic
Part of Speech: adj
Definition: differing from the main topic; not relevant
Etymology: 1982-87


Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English, Preview Edition (v 0.9.7)
Copyright © 2003-2008 Lexico Publishing Group, LLC

Now back to your Obama/Ayres political bantering.

[AVB-AMG]

Originally Posted by Wagner

Wow you have a lot of gaul for someone brand new to a forum to be so direct in your opinions, amazing. I guess that is the 'joy' for lack of a better word, of the Internet.

Not sure what your point is here. You don't like reading political threads that what, you don't agree with? Don't like the tone of? or Can't express an opinion on? Frankly I don't really care as you seem to be the ONLY person who has ever expressed this in the years I've been on this forum.

I'll give you credit for trying your little jabs such as "cut and paste" and what not. Really I'd prefer that you simply address an opinion, but I'm guessing you can't for one reason or another.

Wagner:

So you seem to think that because you have made 14,854 posts in this forum, (and growing), that it gives you some sort of right to "ownership" and to dictate to others. Anyone who is new to the forum has just as much right as you to express their opinion. Actually, I have been a member here for awhile, but have not been as verbose as you. (I am writing and posting as fast as I can to try to catch up with you.....)

Unlike you, I only post when I really have something to say that makes sense on the topic, even if it is to only express my agreement. The topic I was commenting on is the rather obvious excessive back and forth blather that no longer contributes to enforcing or contradicting the topic of the thread.

I have no problem clearly expressing my political opinions, regardless of whether or not you may think I have gaul. (by which I assume you mean that I am willing to not sugar-coat my opinion, while not being impolite or worse: crudely offensive).

Please understand that I am not criticizing you for having and expressing an opinion, but I am, at times, criticizing your political opinion and the repetition of a point that has clearly already been made.

(I think we have now beaten all of this to death.....let's move on....)

AVB-AMG

[MrLabGuy]

Originally Posted by AVB-AMG

To: MrLabGuy & Wagner:

Hey guys....
You both have certainly demonstrated your knowledge and verboseness on a wide range of political issues surrounding this upcoming Presidential race. I appreciate many of the points of view that you both have expressed and agree with some and disagree with others, and I have tried to explain my opinions. We are all obviously very interested in the outcome of this Presidential election, but come on... really now. I have been called O.C. (primarily by my wife), but you guys are taking the cake on this... As my teenage neice would say: "get a life...."
Do you really think you are going to change anyone's mind here?
I really tend to doubt it. I dare say that most of us have already made up our minds of who we are going to vote for and why...

I wish I had the free time that you two apparently have to spend on researching, articulating and typing to generate this obsessive, adnauseam posting on obscure things that probably don't have a real bearing on the important issues that are most important to most of the voters. I guess you just like to "stir up the pot" and see what happens. That can be interesting for awhile but gets old very quickly.

It is almost as if you are trying to win an argument that cannot and will not be won here in this format. Certainly not in a forum comprised of BMW owner's and aficionados. Just cast your vote on Nov. 4th and wait with the rest of us to see what the results are.

I would hope that even though the Republican and Democrat Presidential campaigns are both now going to an even lower/dirtier level on their television and mailer ad campaigns for the last 4 weeks of the campaign, that it will not be a parallel situation in this forum. I'd like to think that we are all respectful of each other, so as to not turn our posts into a silly WWF-like contact sport remarks that degrades into name-calling sarcasm and cynicism, let alone down-right misleading statements or lies. If that is your intention or idea of fun then you are missing my point entirely.

So, on behalf of anyone and everyone else in this forum who shares my sentiments, I respectfully request that you guys "lighten up", take a breath and go for a long drive in your BMW (I assume you both have BMW's.....?), out in the fresh air with some nice pleasant scenery, away from your computer and Internet. It is amazing what it will do for your perspective and tolerance of other people's opinions. Remember, we may not agree on many things but it does get a bit tiresome to listen to (or read), opinions that evolve into obsessive and unyielding rants.

My thoughts and opinion,

AVB-MAG

Thanks for your thoughts and I appreciate your concern for my well being. I assure you life is good and I'm quite the jovial guy living life to its fullest. I work out every day, I have hobbies like high fidelity music, oil painting, piano and photography.I keep up on the issues. I have a wonderful family consisting of a wife I've been with since we were 15 years old which is 27 years to date. We have a wonderful 2 year old as seen in my avatar. I have a wonderful job in the medical sales field which pays me enough commission to afford a very flexible work schedule.

My issue with Ayres has to do with his background and his very radical ideology. He likes Obama and even announced his campaign coming out party in his home. The foundation he has provided millions to push his radical agenda on school kids which Obama helped organize and run. Ayres has no apologies for his past and in fact still holds the same radical beliefs. Instead of working with bombs he now works with dollars but his agenda has not changed. Obama was very much a part of his activities as seen in his participation in Ayres foundation.

Now Obama wants to be the President of the United States and does not want anyone to know about or talk about his past and present associations. Look at his patterns not just Ayres. Rev. Wright and other show who Obama chooses to associate with and though he is one of the most Liberal Senators in his short time his history revels more about his radical beliefs. He's been able to move to the Left to get elected but I fear his real agenda will ultimately harm America.

If you and others feel comfortable ignoring this side of Obama then go ahead. Eric does not seem to care that Ayres used bombs because he believes you should be able to do anything illegal or not to change the direction of America. I'm betting that Eric is in the minority. Those of you who say Ayres and Wright don't matter make me worry even more.

Good day...I'm off to do a couple of hours worth of work and then do my part to stimulate the economy by shopping for some new toys.

[AVB-AMG]

Originally Posted by MrLabGuy

Thanks for your thoughts and I appreciate your concern for my well being. I assure you life is good and I'm quite the jovial guy living life to its fullest. I work out every day, I have hobbies like high fidelity music, oil painting, piano and photography.I keep up on the issues. I have a wonderful family consisting of a wife I've been with since we were 15 years old which is 27 years to date. We have a wonderful 2 year old as seen in my avatar. I have a wonderful job in the medical sales field which pays me enough commission to afford a very flexible work schedule.

My issue with Ayres has to do with his background and his very radical ideology. He likes Obama and even announced his campaign coming out party in his home. The foundation he has provided millions to push his radical agenda on school kids which Obama helped organize and run. Ayres has no apologies for his past and in fact still holds the same radical beliefs. Instead of working with bombs he now works with dollars but his agenda has not changed. Obama was very much a part of his activities as seen in his participation in Ayres foundation.

Now Obama wants to be the President of the United States and does not want anyone to know about or talk about his past and present associations. Look at his patterns not just Ayres. Rev. Wright and other show who Obama chooses to associate with and though he is one of the most Liberal Senators in his short time his history revels more about his radical beliefs. He's been able to move to the Left to get elected but I fear his real agenda will ultimately harm America.

If you and others feel comfortable ignoring this side of Obama then go ahead. Eric does not seem to care that Ayres used bombs because he believes you should be able to do anything illegal or not to change the direction of America. I'm betting that Eric is in the minority. Those of you who say Ayres and Wright don't matter make me worry even more.

Good day...I'm off to do a couple of hours worth of work and then do my part to stimulate the economy by shopping for some new toys.

MrLabGuy:

I just posted a response to another similar post elsewhere in the Political forum that you made on the same topic, prior to reading this one. I appreciate your taking the time to explain and share some personal information which helps me and the rest of us better comprehend where you are coming from. You sound like a very concerned American that is very worried about the direction we Americans are going and what we are about to decide on with our vote on Nov. 4th. I share your serious concern.

Now to this topic: In my opinion, Obama's relationship with Ayers and Wright does matter, but not as much in the macro scheme of things. I have stated before and will again now, that I have decided to give B. Obama my faith and trust that he will make the correct and best choices and decisions for what will benefit the majority of Americans, not just the wealthy "haves". Do I think that Obama will solve all of our problems? Of course not. He is going to make his share of mistakes, but I think he will make less mistakes than McCain would make, that will screw up our country. I also believe that McCain's continued pledge to support most of George Bush's policies makes me very concerned, from his adamant intent to stay in Iraq for years to come to his proposal to tax our company-paid health care benefits.

I think that most voting Americans who are still "undecided" as to whom to vote for will not make their choice based on Obama's so-called relationships with Ayres and Wright, but will do so for other, more important factors such as the economy, Iraq war and potential Supreme Court Judge selections.

AVB-AMG

[Wagner]

Awesome.

[Quicksilver]

AVB-AMG

As a bit of an old timer round here let me
just pull your coat. This stuff is what most of
the guys live for. That's why there was a
forum set aside for it.

Weather they bash each other to death
or not makes no difference to them.

As long as there are no personal attacks
(which i can tell you so far there have
been none of any serious note) they are
not going to stop no matter what conclusion
they arrive at.

Your best bet is not to get offended by their
verbal exchange. Much of it is par for the course
and you would be wasting your time getting
involved unless you have something of substance
to contribute.

Most folks just find a seat and watch the fight.
Every now and then just like a referee someone
brakes up the fighters, interjects a few comments
(which get's them back to neutral corners.)

Then the cut man comes in to repair any damage
the bell rings and the fight is on again.

A left a right a few upper cuts and the fight will
continue until November 4th. So if you don't want to
get one in the jaw better step aside and let em go at it.

Sometimes their serious but most of the time they
just love the debate.

Who can argue with that???