Why is universal health care provisions being slipped in with the stimulus bill?

[Kewl X5]

Health legislations should not be sneaked into a stimulus/spending bill without proper evaluation and debate...What is wrong with our current Congress??

[blondboinsd]

Originally Posted by Kewl X5

Health legislations should not be sneaked into a stimulus/spending bill without proper evaluation and debate...What is wrong with our current Congress??

Are you talking about the Medical and Cobra changes?

[Eric5273]

All I saw in there was a tax rebate which will help laid off workers keep their health coverage when they become unemployed. Can't imagine anyone thinking this is a bad idea.

[blondboinsd]

Originally Posted by Eric5273

All I saw in there was a tax rebate which will help laid off workers keep their health coverage when they become unemployed. Can't imagine anyone thinking this is a bad idea.

That is in there as is the Medicaid for everyone who is unemployed up to 200% of poverty level if I recall correctly. The House/Senate versions are different on this thou. The House doesn't include it from what I recall

[Eric5273]

200% of poverty level is not as high as it sounds. It's still rediculously low. Last I checked, poverty level was less than $20k/year gross for a family of 4. Double that still makes you poor in my book.

[Kewl X5]

Sorry, I wasn't more clear. I was not talking about COBRA or Medicaid...though, that itself has not direct stimulatory effect on the economy...If this stimulus bill passes with all of the things in it with universal healthcare, all the good parts of healthcare in America as you know it will be over. It will be over because now you're going to have a governmental overseer deeming what is the appropriate treatment and cost. This is what they do over in England. They're now going back to a private health system because it just doesn't work.

Oh, so you are 60 years old and you need a cardiac bypass...DENIED.
Oh, your kidneys are failing and dialysis costs about $50K a year---DENIED.
Oh, you have xxxx, well, use this older, generic medication that is not as effective, have to take 4 times a day and enjoy more side effects...ok, your next visit with the doctor is next year...NEXT!

[Eric5273]

Originally Posted by Kewl X5

If this stimulus bill passes with all of the things in it with universal healthcare, all the good parts of healthcare in America as you know it will be over. It will be over because now you're going to have a governmental overseer deeming what is the appropriate treatment and cost. This is what they do over in England.

What makes you think our system will be like that in England?

Maybe ours will be like that in France or Japan, where the doctors decide the appropriate treatment and the government only pays the bill.

[Kewl X5]

Well, what makes you think it will be like France or Japan? (Poor Princess Diana....)

Anyhow, my point is that it is not being discussed. There are too many things going on and this is getting slipped in without any regards what is appropriate. Besides, when has our government run anything efficiently or effectively? If you think our current healthcare system is bad, it definitely won't be any better. Wait times will be long....We need more primary care physicians, but there is NOTHING in the healthcare portion that address that need.

It's easy to say let's get all these people covered for health insurance, but there is a huge shortage of primary care physicians to do the preventative care...There is a shortage of general surgeons as well. There is NO provision discussing about reduction of the cost of healthcare with tort reform (geez, having two lawyers in the executive position, why would they even entertain that?)

Originally Posted by Eric5273

What makes you think our system will be like that in England?

Maybe ours will be like that in France or Japan, where the doctors decide the appropriate treatment and the government only pays the bill.

[Eric5273]

Originally Posted by Kewl X5

There is NO provision discussing about reduction of the cost of healthcare with tort reform (geez, having two lawyers in the executive position, why would they even entertain that?)

I agree that there should be tort reform, but I think you overestimate the effect it would have. Less than 4% of total health care costs are expenditures due to lawsuits. Given that the malpractice insurance companies take a bit of profit as well, I find it hard to imagine that they pocket more than 50 cents on every dollar they collect. So even then you have 8% of total costs. Yet health care costs have doubled in the past 5 years. The rise in price is due to many more issues than tort reform alone can fix.

The obvious way to reduce health care costs is for people to be more healthy.

Imagine for a moment if the fire department were not government run and instead was a private profit-making enterprise. Do you think they would come around doing fire inspections and making sure everyone was able to prevent fires? Of course not! That would be bad for business. Instead, they would hope there were more fires, and thus they could make more money.

The same analogy can be made to health care. Until there is nobody profiting from people getting sick, there will not be any serious coordinated attempt to make sure people live healthier lives. Compared to people living in Europe or even Canada, Americans are fat overweight pigs who eat poorly and don't take care of themselves. And that is why our health care costs are so high.

It is in the interest of the system to keep the costs high. The costs will never be reduced until it is in the interest of the system for the costs to get lower. When the health of people becomes more important than making a profit, then we will see health care costs get lower.

[Kewl X5]

Your first paragraph just sums it all....the threat of having a lawsuit and increase liability risk increases malpractice insurance rates in certain states. MICRA in California has kept the rates reasonable, but try finding an OB/GYN doctor in Pennsylvannia...for instance...There are plenty of states where the lawyers and lack of tort reforms have driven doctors away. Tort reform is not the only thing that needs to be fixed, but IT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESS coming from someone who understands this all too well!!

Your second statement coincides with mine....we need people to be more healthy...American College of Physicians publish an article stating that healthcare would be more cost effective with preventative medicine....Again, in order to achieve that, we need to increase the number of graduating doctors to go into primary care. Last I checked, you can make "universal health care" but getting everyone covered, but please do your research and you'll see there is NOT enough primary care doctors out there because of several factors....one of them is that Primary Care Doctors are not appreciated and thus the pay difference....more work for less pay...you won't be able to pay back your school loan. There is no incentive to go into primary care anymore. Just look at the statistics....you have all specialist because doctors need to back their loans!!

Also speaking everyone is getting fat---well, do we need to overhaul the food industry....Let's have the government take over all the restaurants, food vendors, and tell them what to make. TAX the bad food, sodas, etc. TAX alcohol. TAX fatty foods and fast food. TAX people more money for being overweight!

Using your fire dept analogy--you can set up all the fire stations you want, but if you don't have enough fire inspectors, the system will not work. Also, I do take offense that you imply that doctors are purposely wanting people to be more sick and/or not fully treated and thus making profit by making patients come back for further treatment? Maybe that is not the best analogy--actually, in most managed care models for doctors, if you don't keep the patients healthy, you lose more money!! Besides, there are certain conditions that we DO NOT have cures--yes, chronic problems are chronic problems that needs to be continuously be treated and evaluated.

I agree that health care insurance is a big business. But you can use the same analogy for every business in this country. Why not just go from socialism to communism? Why should lawyers profit either? I mean, if people could NOT sue anyone, you wouldn't need any trial lawyers, right?

I do not know why line of business you are in, but as person who is invovled in healthcare business....our government is NOT listening to their constituents. It should be government working for us and not the other way around.

No one in current adminstration has asked anyone of us for advise regarding what to do with the healthcare industry. It has, instead, become another political football. It has been politics as usual for the Democrats and Republicans and even our new President...Change we can believe in---NOT