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  #11  
Old 08-26-2009, 07:10 AM
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Sorry but the "fact is" Obama has yet to say anything concrete on the topic, he seems content with letting Pelosi and Reid do the dirty work...IMO of course.
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2009, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
Not interested is arguing all this other stuff but I can answer this question.

#1 Veterans hospital and medical center at least for me was and still is
well oiled and efficient each time I go in for any medical care.

#2 I get my social security check on time every month.

#3 Medicare works with my regular insurance without issue
every time I seek medical care.

From where I sit I believe that could be considered efficient.......
Yup, well oiled machine.

Stimulus Checks Mistakenly Sent to 1,700 Inmates, Federal Agency Says - Political News - FOXNews.com

Quote:
Stimulus Checks Mistakenly Sent to 1,700 Inmates, Federal Agency Says
The inspector general's office for the Social Security Administration is looking into the problem as part of its broader audit on stimulus spending. The Social Security Administration acknowledged the $425,000 glitch following a report that nearly two-dozen inmates in Massachusetts had wrongly received the $250 stimulus checks.
Beacon of successful processing...

Quote:
...that the money went out because official records "did not accurately reflect that they were in prison."
I guess my real issue is why people in favor of Obamacare can't admit that is essentially a 'roll of the dice' as far as success and failure go. I get that the US has become a handout society that insists on punishing the efficient for the inefficient..fine. But can we at least not completely corrupt the game? Go ahead and address health care costs however, leave "public (i.e. paid by taxpayers) options" off the table.

Social Security is an epic failure. For some reason people just don't do the math on it and assume "we'll figure something out". One plus one is two, not two and a half..the numbers just don't work. So people want to take a system that has basically turned its back on responsibility and give the originator more power. Wow. That is really all you can say...wow. And that logic, at its core, really explains why all people are not created equal. Some see individual responsibility as the cornerstone, some see communal responsibility as the cornerstone.
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An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting.

"promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare"

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Last edited by Wagner; 08-26-2009 at 07:56 AM.
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  #13  
Old 08-26-2009, 09:48 AM
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Tons of criticism and typical unconstructive Monday morning quarterbacking, yet no one offers solutions. During the last presidential race, why didn't these Republicans, with all of these great ideas, win rather than now complain after the fact.
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Last edited by chile1; 08-26-2009 at 10:19 AM.
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  #14  
Old 08-26-2009, 12:05 PM
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Problem is the system isn't perfect and doesn't live
up to the standards of those who believe they have
the answers. And then there are other reasons that
some folks wont admit to.

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  #15  
Old 08-26-2009, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chile1 View Post
Tons of criticism and typical unconstructive Monday morning quarterbacking, yet no one offers solutions. During the last presidential race, why didn't these Republicans, with all of these great ideas, win rather than now complain after the fact.
Ahh, because "Heath Care" is the democratic ticket red herring, has been since 1990.
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

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  #16  
Old 08-26-2009, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
Problem is the system isn't perfect and doesn't live
up to the standards of those who believe they have
the answers. And then there are other reasons that
some folks wont admit to.
Quick....what?
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An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting.

"promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare"

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

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  #17  
Old 08-26-2009, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
Quick....what?
What's behind the anger in health-care debate? - Inside Bay Area
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  #18  
Old 08-26-2009, 04:49 PM
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From where I sit, this debate is really about a fundamental philosophical difference in the role of Government. If you believe that basic health care is a PRIVILEGE and not a RIGHT, then I guess we do not really need to change anything. Survival of the fittest, so to speak. Let the private Insurance Giants deny coverage to premium-paying citizens on a whim, whenever they feel like it. Let folks pile up enormous health care bills after a catastrpohic illness or surgery, without any hope of reconciling their finances. Let health care continue to be the leading cause of personal bankruptcy and family financial ruin in this country (which it is). I guess for Libertarians who believe that the role of Government is strictly defense against foreign invaders, and not much else, this is a perfectly acceptable situation. I do not agree with this position, but I can appreciate where it's coming from: self-reliance, personal responsibility, intrinsic inefficiencies of big government, etc.

Personally, I do not adhere to this position. We are the only western Democracy which does not provide unfettered, bill-free access to health care to its citizens. The GOP is convinced that the UK, Canada, Australia, France, and Germany have it all wrong, and we have it all right. There is no question that we have the best medical technology, the most advanced diagnositcs and imaging, and space-age surgical
procedures. But what good is having all the space-age medicine in the world, when Private HMOs and PPOs give incentives to their own employees for denial of coverage, and folks wind up mired in $$tens of thousands$$ or $$$hundreds of thousands$$$ in un-reimbursed medical bills? Instead of concentrating on their treatments and on getting better after their surgery or car accident (like they are able to do in the UK or Cananda), Americans have to spend all their recuperation time on fighting with Health Insurance reps and Collection Agencies. Because the health insurance they THOUGHT would protect them, and to whom they have dutifully paid their premiums, refuses to do what an insurance company is SUPPOSED to do: PAY UP!

To use previous failures of big Government as a justification to not try and fix this mess, is neither helpful nor sincere. Forget about Government failure: What about the failure of the private sector? Specifically, the Aetnas, the CIGNAs, the Blue Crosses that have shown a big middle finger to the millions of American families that have faithfully paid their health insurance premiums? Only to be denied and discarded like so much human garbage by insurance execs watching their company's bottom line?

If you truly believe it should be every man, woman, and child for themselves when it comes to health care, then I can see how the current proposal for a Govt option and for HMO regulation is not to your liking. Personally, I think it's a travesty that the most powerful Democracy in the world can take out hidden Taliban warlords on a whim with remote-controlled Predator drones, but cannot provide sustained, basic health care and diagnostics to its' working citizens. And how this biggest, baddest, wealthiest, strongest Democracy lets the greedy private insurance giants drive millions hard-working families into bankruptcy through denial of coverage and worthless Explanation of Benefits statements. The horror stories out there are epic, and way too numerous to list. Or to bother with website links. Do your own research and it won't take you long to see how folks are being f^&ed by their health insurers every day.

Kudos to the Obama Administration for taking on this mess, and for trying to dispel the huge amount of malicious disinformation being spewed forth by the Health Insurance giants.

Last edited by StanF18; 08-26-2009 at 04:57 PM.
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  #19  
Old 08-26-2009, 05:02 PM
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Well put, Stan. But what about the death panels and federally subsidized abortions? I'm kidding.

Again, good job!

Last edited by Krimson X; 08-26-2009 at 05:47 PM.
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  #20  
Old 08-26-2009, 05:26 PM
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The goal of providing affordable health care coverage to all U.S. residents has eluded every president
who has attempted to reach it since Theodore Roosevelt first made it an issue in his last presidential campaign in 1912.
Attempts to expand coverage were made by Presidents:

Franklin Roosevelt;
Harry Truman;
Dwight Eisenhower;
John Kennedy;
Lyndon Johnson; and
Richard Nixon.

All of them failed. This time it appears there's a real effort to try
and tackle an exploding problem but little effort to get behind the
the program to make the needed changes.

The question is, why so much poisonous venom now?

It's my guess there's much more going on below the surface than
all the shouting and screaming and malicious disinformation.
The real truth although talked about gets very little front page news.
But when people understand what's going on and who's behind all the
lies they are more inclined to feed some positive input into the process
and not get caught up in the political infighting, supercilious bloggers,
and unhappy radio talk show host.
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