General Order #1

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by statdoc

You have never bothered to read the Koran, then. The infamous "Verse of the Sword"

"Slay the pagans wherever you may come upon them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place..." (9:5).

It would be nice if you provided the entire verse.

Being a christian and having studied the Bible, I know of many references where killing was called for in the name of the Lord. However, it is very dangerous to quote just a single verse to place it out of context to support an argument. As I have quoted here in other threads before "A text without a context is a pretext for a proof text." Meaning: quoting out of context to remove a passage from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its original meaning.

Here is the full verse from the Quran:

So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 9:5

Verses from the Bible:

Job 36:12 (Whole Chapter)
But if they obey not, they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge.


Isaiah 1:20 (Whole Chapter)
But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Isaiah 66:16 (Whole Chapter)
For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Jeremiah 44:13 (Whole Chapter)
For I will punish them that dwell in the land of Egypt, as I have punished Jerusalem, by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence

[statdoc]

Originally Posted by Krimson X

It would be nice if you provided the entire verse.

Being a christian and having studied the Bible, I know of many references where killing was called for in the name of the Lord.

So what is your point? Are you saying there is a moral equivalence between Islam, Judaism and Christianity? Please be clear what you are trying to say.

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by statdoc

So what is your point? Are you saying there is a moral equivalence between Islam, Judaism and Christianity? Please be clear what you are trying to say.

What I am saying is that all religions have fanatics who misinterpret/misquote the scriptures to conform to their own ideology. Even Christians killed in the name of God. Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not about to debate the moral equivalency of someone else's religion. However, if you understand anything about the three major religions is that they all have surprising similarity. The Jewish Torah is the first five books of the Christian Old Testament Bible(Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy), and the Quaran recounts similar stories told in the Bible such as the stories of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Lot, King Solomon, King David, Aaron, Moses, John the Baptist and.... Jesus. Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God, while Islam teaches that Jesus was simply a man...a prophet, ordained by God, to spread his message. Judiasim, although believe that Jesus existed, does not consider Jesus to be the Son of God. I don't even think they consider him a prophet.

All three consider Jerusalem to be Holy Land.

[MrLabGuy]

Originally Posted by Krimson X

It would be nice if you provided the entire verse.

Being a christian and having studied the Bible, I know of many references where killing was called for in the name of the Lord. However, it is very dangerous to quote just a single verse to place it out of context to support an argument. As I have quoted here in other threads before "A text without a context is a pretext for a proof text." Meaning: quoting out of context to remove a passage from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its original meaning.

Here is the full verse from the Quran:

So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 9:5

Verses from the Bible:

Job 36:12 (Whole Chapter)
But if they obey not, they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge.


Isaiah 1:20 (Whole Chapter)
But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Isaiah 66:16 (Whole Chapter)
For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Jeremiah 44:13 (Whole Chapter)
For I will punish them that dwell in the land of Egypt, as I have punished Jerusalem, by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence

I find it amusing when defenders of Islam discount the violence inherent in the more radical factions of the faith by comparing it to Christianity. Sure 1000 years ago the Biblical quotes you listed might have been taken seriously by a large number of Christians. In todays world however, there are only a handful of Christians who follow a radical middle ages form of Christianity. Unfortunately the same does not hold true for Islam. There is a fairly high percentage of Muslims around the world who ascribe and live by the ancient violent and abusive form of Islam.

Several Muslim Nations govern by the Koran and take the word of Allah as stated in the Koran. There are some startling facts which place a very high percentage of Muslims who believe and practice the more radical form of Islam.

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by MrLabGuy

I find it amusing when defenders of Islam discount the violence inherent in the more radical factions of the faith by comparing it to Christianity. Sure 1000 years ago the Biblical quotes you listed might have been taken seriously by a large number of Christians. In todays world however, there are only a handful of Christians who follow a radical middle ages form of Christianity. Unfortunately the same does not hold true for Islam. There is a fairly high percentage of Muslims around the world who ascribe and live by the ancient violent and abusive form of Islam.

Several Muslim Nations govern by the Koran and take the word of Allah as stated in the Koran. There are some startling facts which place a very high percentage of Muslims who believe and practice the more radical form of Islam.

Who is defending Islam?

What are those facts?