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  #51  
Old 04-20-2010, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarsRmyVICE View Post
As far as this I press this button you press yours....fear of mutual destruction protects us all non-sense, I have to disagree. That is a twisted and absurd method for keeping our planet safe. Meeting with world leaders to work towards complete nuclear disarmament is the only way to go.
You make the assumption that everyone is reasonable and stable which is not the case now and looking back at History has never been. Almost a Utopian view of the world.

That's great and all but I'm more of a Hope for the best but Plan for the Worst kind of guy. Again I can't stress enough that History and the past provides a window into the future especially when you are considering Human Nature. Sure technology evolves but we has human beings have not evolved much in the last 1000 years. And scariest of all is some nations who will soon have the bomb (Iran) has not changed much in 1000 years.

Are you sure you want to negotiate with leaders who think women wearing revealing clothes cause earthquakes?
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  #52  
Old 04-20-2010, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MrLabGuy View Post
You make the assumption that everyone is reasonable and stable which is not the case now and looking back at history has never been. Almost a Utopian view of the world.
You make the assumption that Obama was negotiating with Iran. Obama and other leaders come up with a historic reduction in nuclear stockpiles, and they shouldn't follow through on it because Iran didn't come to the conference? Iran was a subject of the conference, not a negotiatior.
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  #53  
Old 04-20-2010, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MrLabGuy View Post
As for this administration:

Obama has broken more campaign promises than ANY president in my lifetime
Obama has spent more money in his first year in office than any president in my lifetime.
Obama has and plans to take away more freedom and add more government than any president in my lifetime.

You can't spend your way out of debt and our Country which was once the greatest in the WORLD is falling apart. More Debt and More Government is not the answer.
Really? What is your source for the above statistic? I hear it repeated like a mantra, but don't know how to evaluate it. I found a somewhat independent site that is keeping score. What are you comparing these scores to, or do you have your own scorecard?

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Tracking Barack Obama's Campaign Promises

I figure that anyone who can keep many more promises than they break, and even more when you consider the compromises reached, is pretty much following the democratic and legislative processes.

No comment on the spending money, I think all US leaders spend too much money. We probably disagree on what they choose to spend it on, ie social welfare, corporate welfare, military conquests, etc.

Isn't GM paying back their loans early? Didn't one or more banks do the same? Just wondering if you are considering cash outflows, or net costs.

The suggestion that Obama is out to take away your freedoms is interesting, but it is so broad, and so oft-repeated, that it is probably worthy of a separate thread seeing as how this thread is about Glenn Beck, and the only connection is that he is one individual profiting from fanning the flames of that fear.
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  #54  
Old 04-20-2010, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
You make the assumption that Obama was negotiating with Iran. Obama and other leaders come up with a historic reduction in nuclear stockpiles, and they shouldn't follow through on it because Iran didn't come to the conference? Iran was a subject of the conference, not a negotiatior.

I never said I had a problem with Obama and the conference. I also don't have a problem when the discussion focuses on responsibly eliminating older "stockpiles" of nuclear weapons. What I have a problem with is the notion of disarmament of nuclear weapons and the US leading the way by example. America is a Superpower because we developed these weapons and continue to be the strongest Nation in the World. Had we decided not to follow the path of peace by mutual destruction and the development of nuclear weapons we might have lost the war and the World would look much different than it does today.

I'm for going with what works and had we taken the Gandhi approach back then we would be speaking German or Japanese. In a perfect world we can feel all warm and fuzzy but until we reach Utopia the United States needs to stay a Superpower.
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  #55  
Old 04-20-2010, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MrLabGuy View Post
IWhat I have a problem with is the notion of disarmament of nuclear weapons and the US leading the way by example. America is a Superpower because we developed these weapons and continue to be the strongest Nation in the World.
Your nuclear weapons strategy, negotiating from strength and the ability to destroy the world x times over, might have worked in the past but it is unlikely to be effective with terrorism and rogue states. How many other superpowers are you keeping in line with it today?

We have new challenges now, and we need more cooperative solutions. The dialogues that are starting are a positive (admittedly small) step on that road.
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  #56  
Old 04-20-2010, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JCL View Post
Really? What is your source for the above statistic? I hear it repeated like a mantra, but don't know how to evaluate it. I found a somewhat independent site that is keeping score. What are you comparing these scores to, or do you have your own scorecard?

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Tracking Barack Obama's Campaign Promises

I figure that anyone who can keep many more promises than they break, and even more when you consider the compromises reached, is pretty much following the democratic and legislative processes.
I have a problem with the way they track the promises kept vs the promises broken they heavily weigh the kept by individually things which were already in the works and he had no real control or part in making them happen yet he gets the credit because he mentioned them once. Many are also hard to measure and are essentially meaningless because nothing has been done just promised and announced. Some examples of meaningless and have lead to nothing being done yet

But the bigger picture is what they Left out of his broken promises list and WHY? and the weight of the broken promises when compaired with the ones they list as kept.

I don't have all day to spend on this and there are MANY more.

Such as:

Let's start with the what he calls his first act as President

Day One

"The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing I'd do."

Here is a big one (strange they don't list this on broken promises)

He's mentioned dozens of time cutting spending in debates and on the campaign trail.

Cutting Spending

“actually, I am cutting more than I’m spending. So it will be a net spending cut.”



“what I've done throughout this campaign is to propose a net spending cut.”

Lobbyists



Health Care

"I Won't Force Americans To Buy Insurance"

Iraq

"Bring troops home in 16 months"

Recess Appointments

Obama declared that a recess appointment is “damaged goods” and has “less credibility” than a normal appointment.

Marcch 27th did just that.

GUANTANAMO BAY

"The detention facilities at Guantánamo for individuals covered by this order shall be closed as soon as practicable, and no later than one year from the date of this order." January 22, 2009.

Transparency

the Obama administration claims it will be "the most open and transparent in history".

Executive signing statements

During the campaign, Obama criticized President Bush for issuing "signing statements," attached letters to congressionally-passed bills that add interpretation and instruction on how to carry out the law.
"That's not part of [the president's] power," Obama told an audience in a recorded video during the campaign, further alleging it was a violation of the Constitution for the president to attach signing statements to signed bills.


Yet he continues with the process.

"eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses."

"New American jobs tax credit"

"Hiatus on 401(k) penalties"

$4,000 college credit

FISA

Said:

"will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.”

Happened:

“Given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as president, I will carefully monitor the program.”

Nuclear Energy

“I am not a nuclear energy proponent.” Barack Obama, December 30, 2007

Public Financing

“If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election.” Also, a Common Cause questionnaire dated November 27, 2007, asked “If you are nominated for President in 2008 and your major opponents agree to forgo private funding in the general election campaign, will you participate in the presidential public financing system?”, Obama checked, “Yes.”

Online


Just a few more





Some are also not listed correctly by them:

For example: Reduce earmarks to 1994 levels:

when he actually said "We are going to ban all earmarks - the process by which individual members insert pet projects without review," Mr. Obama promised Jan. 6, 2008.

Last edited by MrLabGuy; 04-20-2010 at 02:51 PM.
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  #57  
Old 04-20-2010, 03:58 PM
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In other clown related news, Glenn Beck, today, declares himself a prophet of God:

“When we were starting the TV show there are things that I did that I wouldn’t do now because I had to be more of an entertainer.”

“Are you here to relax and be entertained, or are you here, will you pick up the mantle left to you by the Founders to a guardian of man’s freedom? Will you do it, because your children will ask you what did you do? I believe your God will ask you what did you do?…God is giving a plan I think to me that is not really a plan…The problem is that I think the plan that the Lord would have us follow is hard for people to understand…Because of my track record with you who have been here for a long time. Because of my track record with you, I beg of you to help me get this message out, and I beg of you to pray for clarity on my part."

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  #58  
Old 04-20-2010, 05:11 PM
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If Mr. Beck said that then I guess I need to ask a few questions.

#1 Does Glen Beck believe in God?
#2 If so what God does he believe in?
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  #59  
Old 04-20-2010, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
If Mr. Beck said that then I guess I need to ask a few questions.

#1 Does Glen Beck believe in God?
#2 If so what God does he believe in?
He did say The Lord. I guess the Lord told him to leave his first wife and special needs child, too? It's all part of "the plan".
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  #60  
Old 04-20-2010, 05:25 PM
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I have a problem with the way they track the promises kept vs the promises broken ......<snip>

OK, lots of text, but that wasn't the question. Your statement was that Obama broke more promises that any president in your lifetime. You were pretty clear on that. I just asked what statistics you used to arrive at that conclusion.

I provided a link that represents a newspaper with a Pullitzer prize. They also appear to be somewhat open minded, but that is just an opinion on my part. They are continuing to track the promises, classified by kept, broken, in process, or stalled. They even track the top 25, which addresses your issue of the weighting of the various promises. I like the category called compromise, where a portion of the promise was kept in exchange for the support of other parties. Conversely, you gave me a website called hotair.com (your first link). It is also primarily outdated hot air, not current, as it isn't up to date. How can you focus only on statistics from last year? You then listed a bunch of things that you feel are broken promises.

All that is fine, but let's get back to the question. If you are going to declare that he broke more promises than any other president, presumably you have some data to back up that position. You haven't listed any complete statistics for even Obama, let alone all the other presidents in your lifetime. How is his kept/broken record? How does it compare to all those other presidents in your lifetime?
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