First, they said no to MLK Day... Now this.

[nom3rcy]

Originally Posted by Krimson X

Those questions are far from silly. They are the basis of criminal procedure law in this country. Those questions protect you from unreasonable search and seizure. The law, as written, does not require probable cause or reasonable suspicion for "lawful contact" other than to determine the immigration status of an individual.

I may not have anything to worry about, but there are hundreds of thousands of Mexican/Hispanic-Americans living in Arizona that do.

They are silly in the context of this argument because probably cause, reasonable suspicion and lawful contact are already well defined by case law and this bill simply adds that LEOs are allowed to ask about a subject's immigration status once they make that contact. It doesn't outline probable cause etc because it doesn't need to.

I simply feel that the people opposed to this law are not interpreting it correctly, and applying those misinterpretations to what if scenarios are leading them to be against the bill.

Is it really that horrible of a question? "Are you a US citizen?"

How does that question infringe upon your rights?

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by nom3rcy

They are silly in the context of this argument because probably cause, reasonable suspicion and lawful contact are already well defined by case law and this bill simply adds that LEOs are allowed to ask about a subject's immigration status once they make that contact. It doesn't outline probable cause etc because it doesn't need to.

I simply feel that the people opposed to this law are not interpreting it correctly, and applying those misinterpretations to what if scenarios are leading them to be against the bill.

Is it really that horrible of a question? "Are you a US citizen?"

How does that question infringe upon your rights?

Three years of law school and years of legal practice tell me that this law will not survive Constitutional scrutiny. Point-blank.

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by nom3rcy

They are silly in the context of this argument because probably cause, reasonable suspicion and lawful contact are already well defined by case law and this bill simply adds that LEOs are allowed to ask about a subject's immigration status once they make that contact. It doesn't outline probable cause etc because it doesn't need to.

I simply feel that the people opposed to this law are not interpreting it correctly, and applying those misinterpretations to what if scenarios are leading them to be against the bill.

Is it really that horrible of a question? "Are you a US citizen?"

How does that question infringe upon your rights?

So silly were my questions that on Friday, Arizona revised SB1070 to clarify "lawful contact". I think I was interpreting the law the way it was written.

Here are the changes:

One removes the option of police to use race, ethnicity or national origin as a factor to decide whether there is "reasonable suspicion'' to determine if someone is in this country illegally.

The other narrows the circumstances under which police can question someone.

SB 1070 said an inquiry could be made after a part of any "lawful contact.'' The new language says there first must be part of a "lawful stop, detention or arrest.''

[nom3rcy]

The Federal Government is choosing not to act. They have shown time after time that they really don't care about the borders. If they put anywhere near as much importance on this as they put on air travel it would be a whole different story.

Now AZ has to deal with what they have been left with and they are doing their best to fix it. The rest of that bill has excellent provisions to help clean up their state and it is unfortunate that this one little part is being picked up by guys like Al Sharpton and blown completely out of proportion.

I have a feeling that if it wasn't for the misplaced rhetoric against this bill that many people would have a far clearer picture of what it is actually trying to accomplish. I understand your position Krimson and agree that our rights should be protected but I don't think that this infringes upon them in the least, and if this doesn't hold up to constitutional scrutiny then there is a whole stack of laws that should be scrutinized as well.

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by nom3rcy

The rest of that bill has excellent provisions to help clean up their state and it is unfortunate that this one little part is being picked up by guys like Al Sharpton and blown completely out of proportion.

... and by Karl Rove, and Marco Rubio, and Jeb Bush, and Tom Ridge, and Lindsey Graham, and Tom Tancredo, and...

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by Krimson X

... and by Karl Rove, and Marco Rubio, and Jeb Bush, and Tom Ridge, and Lindsey Graham, and Tom Tancredo, and...

Virginia Gov. Bob McDonald, Michael Bloomberg, and...

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by nom3rcy

The rest of that bill has excellent provisions to help clean up their state and it is unfortunate that this one little part is being picked up by guys like Al Sharpton and blown completely out of proportion.

Originally Posted by Krimson X

... and by Karl Rove, and Marco Rubio, and Jeb Bush, and Tom Ridge, and Lindsey Graham, and Tom Tancredo, and...

Originally Posted by Krimson X

Virginia Gov. Bob McDonald, Michael Bloomberg, and...

by Judge Andrew Napolitano, and Charles Karuthammer, and Mike Huckabee, and Joe Scarborough, and...

[nom3rcy]

yea it is a huge pile of fail

[FSETH]

I personally think it is great. Like others have said, the U.S. Gov't has done nothing and now Arizona is having to clean up the mess. Illegals are bad enough in the metro Atlanta area. I couldn't imagine how bad it is in Arizona. Something needs to happen and I am on-board with this. If I lived in an areas where this was an issue and I had to answer a few questions every once in a while, I wouldn't care one bit. Sometimes people need to step up to get things done. I am sure most 'real" citizens in Arizona would feel the same way and deal with a tiny inconvenience every now and then to clean things up.

A few counties around metro Atlanta have started handing over any illegals that are booked into jail for various reasons to federal immigration officers for deportation. Last I heard there were only 71 law enforcement agencies nationwide doing this. I guess that means all the rest simply release the illegals back into circulation.

[Dannyell]

Funny nobody is screaming socialist or communist...but I guess since it's not Obama that came up with this it doesn't apply...