What's the matter with Donald Trump.

[motordavid]

becredliner, post # 428: ^ Very cogent commentary, imo.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Was traveling all day yesterday so didn't know that. So now it is up to Biden to consider if the $900 billion is what is needed. That's good!

No worries. Was just clarifying.

Trump deserves a lot of the crap he gets, but allowing some time to pass before losing our cumulative minds... Is probably a good thing. And yes, Trump is a serial narcissist, criminal, etc. But being sounding boards for his craziness, only helps his cause.

All this really has the Reps worried over those last 2 Senate seats as well.

[EODguy]

Originally Posted by motordavid

^ The Stimulus Bill/Covid Relief Bill does not contain foreign aid or grease to orgs; that stuff is found in the $1.4 trillion omnibus spending bill.

Both bills contain huge amounts of pork/lobby driven crap and both are nearly unreadable unless one just came from a 'bill writing class'.

Both parties of the elected idiots/both houses crammed special interest pet project topics into both bills.

As for the chump change to citizens, both the current 'relief' sum and the number bandied by Ftrump, (rejected thus far by his own 'party' idiots), is chump change in the scheme of proposed and YTD spending...

You are correct. I thought the foreign pork money was in the 900bn.

I still say that any kind of money going out of the government coffers to a foreign entity should only happen once things are covered for Americans. If this Pakistan gender study money, etc. was not in the other bill then raising the money for those who need it wouldn't be such a fight.

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[EODguy]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

There was some pork in the bill the House approved last March. There is in almost ever bill from both sides. That was not what stalled the vote prior to the election. Simply, the Senate refused to bring the bill passed by the House to the Senate floor or negotiate with the house until it was about a week prior to the deadline. At that point a small bipartisan committee negotiated and agreed on a bill to vote through for the Trump's signature.



That was when Trump said he wanted the amount to citizens making over $75,000 to be 2,000 rather than $600. However, he did not veto the bill that would have given the house and senate the opportunity to overrule the veto.



So now the bill goes back to the bipartisan committee for negotiated revisions and then hopefully for approval by House and Senate and to Trump for approval. If the bill is signed as originally presented to Trump or even revised and signed by Trump, Biden will still request a new bill to provide relief to those still in need.

Actually there was a ton of pork in what the Democrats wanted in the 2nd stimulus package and the Republicans were offering more previously but Nancy Pelosi would not negotiate out the pork (think $$ for riot repair, budget shortfalls of some cities, etc.) The after the election she stripped the pork and settled for even less than what was previously offered by Republicans.

When asked what changed she said.... "new president, new vaccine" so the delay was from the House not the Senate.

Pelosi previously encountered criticism for not supporting a moderate Democratic proposal, insisting on a much larger price tag. The current proposal from the Problem Solvers Caucus, a group of 25 Republicans and 25 Democrats working to find bipartisan solutions, is $908 billion, significantly less than the $1.5 trillion proposed before the election. In October, the White House had also proposed a $1.8 trillion package, roughly twice the size of the one Pelosi is now backing.
When asked about her shift on supporting the much smaller package, Pelosi cited "a new president and a vaccine."


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[EODguy]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

No worries. Was just clarifying.



Trump deserves a lot of the crap he gets, but allowing some time to pass before losing our cumulative minds... Is probably a good thing. And yes, Trump is a serial narcissist, criminal, etc. But being sounding boards for his craziness, only helps his cause.



All this really has the Reps worried over those last 2 Senate seats as well.

Saying Trump is a serial narcissist, criminal is an opinion and using them to inflame or justify hatred for Trump is why so many people pull back into opposing camps.

CW, an example would be if I was angry at what you have said (even though we've never met, nor talked directly) and said to the others on here that you had done a horrible crime like xxxxx and that's why you said or acted the way you did. That would be my opinion and would have no basis in fact. I do it too although I try not to.
I get that several of the people on here dislike or hate Trump because of what he's said, but it is difficult for me to understand how people can hate someone they have never met, whose policies have helped the United States. I know so many people say "oh, he screwed up the coronavirus response" yet 90% of the things people say should have been done are things that are only in the States power or if we were under a dictatorship.
I truly think that Biden will be bad for America (based on his 39 previous years as a senator) and the plans he has advocated.

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[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by EODguy

Saying Trump is a serial narcissist, criminal is an opinion and using them to inflame or justify hatred for Trump is why so many people pull back into opposing camps.

CW, an example would be if I was angry at what you have said (even though we've never met, nor talked directly) and said to the others on here that you had done a horrible crime like xxxxx and that's why you said or acted the way you did. That would be my opinion and would have no basis in fact. I do it too although I try not to.
I get that several of the people on here dislike or hate Trump because of what he's said, but it is difficult for me to understand how people can hate someone they have never met, whose policies have helped the United States. I know so many people say "oh, he screwed up the coronavirus response" yet 90% of the things people say should have been done are things that are only in the States power or if we were under a dictatorship.
I truly think that Biden will be bad for America (based on his 39 previous years as a senator) and the plans he has advocated.

I think I have made it sound like I hate Trump. I don't. I also wanted him to do well as POTUS (I've said as much before). Rooting against the POTUS is terrible, if he fails, we all fail. My dislike and opinions of Trump have been reinforced during his presidency, not formed by it. Trump is a terrible human being, but I don't hate him, and rooted for him. Being a terrible human being does not make you a bad POTUS. Trump isn't the first one, or the last, Clinton comes to mind. Equally terrible human being who is also a criminal.

Some of Trump's policies have benefited the US, others have not. But that's true of most administrations I'm sure. I've said for awhile CV19 policies are a lose/lose and I agree with you, the governors are primarily to blame here (said this before as well). If they followed Trump's lead instead of doing something that may have benefited their state, it's on them. If they chose party lines vs. logic, place the blame there. I don't want to live in a dictatorship and have federal policy enacted limiting freedoms/rights of the citizenry. Even if it is for "the greater good."

Much like when Trump took office, I am hopeful Biden and Harris do well. My hopes are not high. But, they aren't all that high for any of our elected officials these days. "Professional politician" needs to no longer be a lifetime gig. Long spans in "public service" offices have a proven track record of corrupting individuals.

So, as you said, most of us here on the forums don't know each other in any other sense than typing into the void. I value the opinions here, even if I don't agree with them. I find I am squarely in the middle on the political spectrum as I get older. Conservative on some things, and liberal on others. I can usually get along with both sides of the aisle's constituency provided they aren't totally closed-minded and unwilling to even listen to other positions. Hah, I've had some "interesting" discussions with my Mom who is a staunch Dem party straight ticket voter (terrible thing to vote straight party on any ballot IMO). But we move on and still enjoy each other's visits. Have I lost my temper once or twice on here? I'm sure I have, but at the end of the day we are all Americans. Thank goodness.

[EODguy]

I agree CW

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[Quicksilver]

Is Trump is a terrible human being? Yes he is. And yes a terrible human being "does" make you a bad POTUS. From my perspective if you lie as this man has, and If you think only of yourself,
and believe you're above the law as he has clearly demonstrated then i have no respect for the man and I don't need to meet him or be within his space. Jan 20th can't come soon enough.

[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by EODguy

Actually there was a ton of pork in what the Democrats wanted in the 2nd stimulus package and the Republicans were offering more previously but Nancy Pelosi would not negotiate out the pork (think $$ for riot repair, budget shortfalls of some cities, etc.) The after the election she stripped the pork and settled for even less than what was previously offered by Republicans.

When asked what changed she said.... "new president, new vaccine" so the delay was from the House not the Senate.

Pelosi previously encountered criticism for not supporting a moderate Democratic proposal, insisting on a much larger price tag. The current proposal from the Problem Solvers Caucus, a group of 25 Republicans and 25 Democrats working to find bipartisan solutions, is $908 billion, significantly less than the $1.5 trillion proposed before the election. In October, the White House had also proposed a $1.8 trillion package, roughly twice the size of the one Pelosi is now backing.
When asked about her shift on supporting the much smaller package, Pelosi cited "a new president and a vaccine."


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Speaking of pork, us pig farmers raise swine with ractopamine as a feed additive to bulk up the animal weeks before they are ready for the slaughterhouse.

These additives stay in the system for 7~10 days or more. It is banned for export to the EU and China.

US negotiated a trade agreement with Taiwan to supply certain percentage of pigs fed with ractopamine.

To entice EU and China's acceptance of US swines, 2 of the largest us producers of pork, JBS USA and Tyson have stopped using the feed additive.

There's a reason why ractopamine is banned in these other countries. I wouldn't want to consume it either without knowing the long term effects of such additive.

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by EODguy

Saying Trump is a serial narcissist, criminal is an opinion and using them to inflame or justify hatred for Trump is why so many people pull back into opposing camps.

CW, an example would be if I was angry at what you have said (even though we've never met, nor talked directly) and said to the others on here that you had done a horrible crime like xxxxx and that's why you said or acted the way you did. That would be my opinion and would have no basis in fact. I do it too although I try not to.
I get that several of the people on here dislike or hate Trump because of what he's said, but it is difficult for me to understand how people can hate someone they have never met, whose policies have helped the United States. I know so many people say "oh, he screwed up the coronavirus response" yet 90% of the things people say should have been done are things that are only in the States power or if we were under a dictatorship.
I truly think that Biden will be bad for America (based on his 39 previous years as a senator) and the plans he has advocated.

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So you think that Obama-Biden bailout of the US auto industry was bad? Mitt Romney and the Republicans were willing to let the auto companies go bankrupt. Bankruptcy would not have only created a high job loss in the auto industries in the states, but autoworkers on pension would have seen their pension reduce from dollars to pennies. Because that is what happens when companies go bankrupt. Debts are settled for pennies on the dollars.

As for the part of hating Trump, it is natural to hate him when he causes so much miseries in the Asian American communities by keeping referring to the virus as the China Virus, Hong Kong Flu, etc. You may not be affected by his rhetoric but my Asian families and friends are affected by his divisive rhetoric. People who are Asians, but are not Chinese were being physically attacked because of the President's rhetoric. Some Americans just assume that if you look Asian you must be Chinese, and the Chinese created the virus although Scientists have already disproved this. FYI the virus that affected New York and the East coast came from Europe, not China.

The only country that ever used a weapon of Mass Destruction was the US, not once but twice. Agent Orange was developed and used against the Vietnamese people as well as American soldiers. Collateral damages weren't the concern of the US government. Napalm bombs were also dropped on the Vietnamese people. Can anyone tell me why we went to fight in Vietnam? Did they attack our country? The reason that we went to war in Vietnam was to stop the spread of communism? The Domino theory of the spread of communism was that if one country fell to the communist other will follow. How is that working out for us? The puppet government set up by the US is no longer in South Vietnam and the country is united again. Vietnam is thriving under communism. You can go to Youtube and read the blogs of Expat that are living in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, etc.

When the swine flu came out no one blame the American pig farmer or Americans for the virus.