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740ilDuke 12-26-2018 08:06 PM

02' 4.6is Supercharged / 107k / Trans. Fail. Safe
 
So, the X5 finally arrived after about a month of back and forth, happily in nice cosmetic shape overall just needing a little paint correction on the nose from stone chips and on the rear bumper. I bought it aware of TFS.

Moving on.

As I've been in an E38 and had a E53 before, Im familiar with the 5hp24, more or less - like anything it needs to be serviced.

The Issue: Once warm it slips in 1 and 2 and slams into gear. So, Im torn between a transmission flush which would clear the cooler of debris if it's clogged and just swapping transmissions. I found one locally for $800 the seller says was rebuilt 15k miles ago. No paper work, but gave me his number to call and discuss. The other is $1350 shipped from CA with 70k miles. I think I can get the swap done for $300 labor. Leaving me with the fluid / filter / gasket and potentially going ahead and sourcing the 4.6is rebuilt torque converter, or just moving mine over. But, with 458HP in front of this slush box, a rebuilt unit is probably the smart move.

A friend with the same truck just swapped his gearbox for similar reasons. The 4.4 X5 box will work without issue, the only differences being the TC and Valve body. He has not noticed any difference in performance or pulling a trailer and left the valve body intact, and only swapped over his TC.

That said - should I just aim towards one of the above boxes, or have a legitmate flush done.

Thanks everyone!

andrewwynn 12-26-2018 09:04 PM

Often the bad shift issues can be resolved with a valve body swap which is way easier and it's about $700 with all new moving parts. I was having slam shifts from a dirty connector on my transmission

740ilDuke 12-26-2018 10:46 PM

I see them from Revmax for $599, new everything. I guess it's so close to the price of another unit too - in case it's something else internal. :(

tmaxx445 12-26-2018 11:50 PM

I think you also have to swap the bell housing for the larger 4.6 specific L51 converter to fit in a standard 4.4 5hp24. The following is quoted from RRPhil @ https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...-solved-2.html

"There are three bellhousings used for the 15 different models of the 5HP24 used in BMWs

1) 1058 322 016 is used for the majority of models (003, 004, 005, 010, 016, 017, 018, 020, 021, 022 & 029)
2) 1058 322 012 is used for the diesel models (023 & 036) – obviously because they’re mated to the M57 engine rather than the M62
3) 1058 322 020 is used for the 034 & 035 models which use the larger L51 torque converter. The casting is the same as for 1058 322 016 but, as already discussed, the stiffening ribs are partially machined away to provide clearance for the larger converter

Nine different torque converters are used for BMW models of the 5HP24 (and 4 different converters for Jaguar models)

Phil"

740ilDuke 12-26-2018 11:53 PM

Great Info. I went ahead and used realoem by VIN to lookup the part number.

01 Exch. automatic transmission EH A5S 440Z - UK 1 24007512588
02 Torque converter L51 1 24407512589

740ilDuke 12-27-2018 09:36 PM

Pulled some codes today while getting a light bulb.
PO741 - TC Clutch solenoid circuit performance or stuck off
P0731 - Gear 1 incorrect ratio
P0733 - Gear 3 incorrect ratio
P1149 - HO2S 2 BANK 2 Signal Too High (Does this mean Down Stream Driver Side? Should I be looking for another issue, or is this just 17 years of age and 107k miles catching up?



Looks like the transmission and TC are gone, and an o2 sensor, so far.

RRPhil 12-28-2018 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 740ilDuke (Post 1150164)
....The 4.4 X5 box will work without issue, the only differences being the TC and Valve body....

Important to remember that the 4.6is model also has an additional friction & steel plate in the D brake to handle the extra torque. You can’t just swap the bellhousing/torque converter and the upper valve block assembly over to the 4.4i transmission.

Phil

740ilDuke 12-29-2018 09:01 PM

I think im going to have a guy locally rebuild it, got quoted at $900. Ill have it pulled and deliver it to him. Found a shop online that will reman the L51 TC for $250.

Hopefully the valve body is ok. $599 for that to be reworked.

Dblock2151 12-29-2018 11:08 PM

Good luck, let us know how it works out for you!

snik 12-30-2018 12:30 AM

02' 4.6is Supercharged / 107k / Trans. Fail. Safe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 740ilDuke (Post 1150233)
Pulled some codes today while getting a light bulb.

PO741 - TC Clutch solenoid circuit performance or stuck off

P0731 - Gear 1 incorrect ratio

P0733 - Gear 3 incorrect ratio

P1149 - HO2S 2 BANK 2 Signal Too High (Does this mean Down Stream Driver Side? Should I be looking for another issue, or is this just 17 years of age and 107k miles catching up?







Looks like the transmission and TC are gone, and an o2 sensor, so far.



Similar to the issues I've had.
Your valve body is done. Probably has some dead solenoids too.
Send it off to get rebuilt, put it back in with fresh fluid and seals and you should be good to go.
I used a rebuilder in eBay, it was great. Will ok turnaround too. Under $700.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

740ilDuke 01-01-2019 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snik (Post 1150408)
Similar to the issues I've had.
Your valve body is done. Probably has some dead solenoids too.
Send it off to get rebuilt, put it back in with fresh fluid and seals and you should be good to go.
I used a rebuilder in eBay, it was great. Will ok turnaround too. Under $700.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fun. I guess Ill send it off to RevMax for $599 in Charlotte, NC. Nearing having a shop lined up to pull it out. Spent part of the afternoon defunking the underside and under the hood.

snik 01-01-2019 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 740ilDuke (Post 1150633)
Fun. I guess Ill send it off to RevMax for $599 in Charlotte, NC. Nearing having a shop lined up to pull it out. Spent part of the afternoon defunking the underside and under the hood.



The 5hp may be cheaper to do.
I have a 6hp with the A051 plate. Apparently they're becoming rare. Most places are only rebuilding them now rather than outright selling rebuild units.

Why are you paying a shop to drop it. So it yourself. It takes maybe 30mins.
Drain fluids. Drop the pan.
Pull the mechatronic locking tab. Turn mechatronic sleeve to unlock/unscrew electronic plug. Remove plug.
Unscrew valve body bolts and lower valve body. Let it all drain. Dry off. Remove TCM carefully. Pack in about 3 bag. Package and mail off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

740ilDuke 01-01-2019 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snik (Post 1150635)
The 5hp may be cheaper to do.
I have a 6hp with the A051 plate. Apparently they're becoming rare. Most places are only rebuilding them now rather than outright selling rebuild units.

Why are you paying a shop to drop it. So it yourself. It takes maybe 30mins.
Drain fluids. Drop the pan.
Pull the mechatronic locking tab. Turn mechatronic sleeve to unlock/unscrew electronic plug. Remove plug.
Unscrew valve body bolts and lower valve body. Let it all drain. Dry off. Remove TCM carefully. Pack in about 3 bag. Package and mail off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Im rounding up a shop to drop the transmission, once that's drained and out I can remove the valve body & torque converter for reconditioning. :)

bcredliner 01-01-2019 06:10 PM

Unless you are sure what the problem is, since a transmission shop is pulling the transmission, I would have them do a diagnosis before they pull it and you start buying parts.

snik 01-01-2019 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 740ilDuke (Post 1150642)
Im rounding up a shop to drop the transmission, once that's drained and out I can remove the valve body & torque converter for reconditioning. :)



Ahh. Ok. Gonna have the whole thing rebuilt?
You may not need it tho. The transmission itself is pretty solid.
From talking to many rebuilders, the impression I get is worn valvebody cylinders and half dead solenoids cause most of the issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RRPhil 01-01-2019 09:04 PM

If the mileage is high it may be worth getting a Sonnax main pressure valve fitted. Worth doing a vacuum test first, but I find that I need to replace quite a few.

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...psxufwapw1.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psmo3xzxoj.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psmzp78qhp.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54gBRA_yMnM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm_M4hk1YHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZH3BkKlNfM

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...psan6nyfsd.jpg

Unlike the 6-speeds, the solenoids on the 5HP24 are generally very reliable

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psz8iwuz4o.jpg

Based on your symptoms, it’s also worth checking that your upper valve block doesn’t have a crack in the SV-1/KV-F circuit

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psimulit1d.jpg

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...psxi9gulc1.jpg

Phil

740ilDuke 01-01-2019 10:14 PM

Wow, thanks Phil. That's a ton of information.

The X5 has 107k miles on it. It shifts perfect until it
gets warm and then loses it's mind. Upper gears seem fine, so
when I drive it (hardly never until this is fixed) I start in M-3 and
drive easy until up to speed and shift into M4 & M5.

Im not a transmission expert by any stretch, but appreciate the insight
and knowledge you've shared.

Here's the shop that's rebuilt a VB for me in the past.
https://revmaxconverters.com/product...ed-valve-body/

A gentleman about 90 miles away will rebuild the transmission for $900
& a shop in Chicago is charging $250 to reman the L51. VB another $600.

I'd considered a flush, but would rather just rebuild it instead of some now and some later. One shot and check all the boxes is what Im after.

What fluid is recommended?



Quote:

Originally Posted by RRPhil (Post 1150670)
If the mileage is high it may be worth getting a Sonnax main pressure valve fitted. Worth doing a vacuum test first, but I find that I need to replace quite a few.

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...psxufwapw1.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psmo3xzxoj.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psmzp78qhp.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54gBRA_yMnM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm_M4hk1YHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZH3BkKlNfM

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...psan6nyfsd.jpg

Unlike the 6-speeds, the solenoids on the 5HP24 are generally very reliable

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psz8iwuz4o.jpg

Based on your symptoms, it’s also worth checking that your upper valve block doesn’t have a crack in the SV-1/KV-F circuit

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psimulit1d.jpg

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...psxi9gulc1.jpg

Phil


RRPhil 01-02-2019 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 740ilDuke (Post 1150679)
What fluid is recommended?

Only ever use either ZF Lifeguard Fluid 5, Pentosin ATF 1 or Mobil ATF LT71141 in your 5HP24. This guarantees that you have the right friction modifier pack to ensure that the torque converter lock-up clutch functions correctly in its ‘controlled slip’ mode

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...psqg4wxpz0.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ficientLUC.jpg

Phil

oldskool racer 01-02-2019 01:51 PM

Had a similar issue, cant recall the codes, but the solution was simply replacing the harness in the transmission. Something about a thermostat/temp sensor that failed. Maybe you will get as lucky, but after a new filter, fluid, and the harness, all was great

740ilDuke 01-02-2019 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskool racer (Post 1150715)
Had a similar issue, cant recall the codes, but the solution was simply replacing the harness in the transmission. Something about a thermostat/temp sensor that failed. Maybe you will get as lucky, but after a new filter, fluid, and the harness, all was great

What made you decide to replace the harness? Codes? Hmm.

oldskool racer 01-03-2019 09:38 AM

Yeah, something about the code. I was trying to track down the codes it threw to help out, but cant find my notes. My mechanic recommended to try the harness before doing anything else, and it solved the issue! I know there are many folks on this board that are way savvier than I, just slanted to drop what worked in my instance.

RRPhil 01-03-2019 02:01 PM

Issues with the fluid temperature sensor (which is taped into the wiring loom) are not unusual but (in my opinion) would be unlikely to produce the errors reported by your ECU

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...pset7szos6.jpg

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...turesensor.jpg

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...pskodmr00z.jpg

The ‘incorrect ratio’ codes imply that the signals taken from the turbine and output speed sensors do not add up to one of the ratios (for 1st & 3rd gear in your case) i.e. a clutch is slipping

Phil

bcredliner 01-03-2019 02:18 PM

FYI for those new to forum. RRPHIL is our resident expert on transmissions.

740ilDuke 01-03-2019 07:05 PM

Thanks Phil. I think Im in for a rebuild for sure. Looking at re manufactured units as well, but will have to investigate as to "what comes in the box". BMW dealership sells them for $3,000

What I've dug up price wise has gone like this:
Install / Swap $ Unknown - waiting on estimate
Fluid $ Have not priced - not sure how much Ill need to buy (chime in)
Rebuild $900
L51 Reman $300
Valve Body $600

I'm thinking I'll be about $400 on swap labor from a friend putting me around $2200 before fluid. I doubt "AAMCO" or whomever will be in that ballpark. I don't want to have to worry about it after this as I plan to ride this X5 for a long time.

CleanIsFast 01-04-2019 08:31 AM

If I remember correctly that trans fluid is very expensive. Something like $20/L, my guess is over 5 liters maybe more?

I actually have brand new liter in my closet from my old 4.6iS if you want it. Send me a message, I believe my 4.8iS takes different fluid now

x5Alpine 01-06-2019 04:12 AM

I would definitely go for a remanufactured box from BMW. It is literally a brand new transmission with a 2 year warranty. Germany only has 6 of them left for the 4.6is. A tech at my dealership just installed his new trans in his 2003 4.6is S3.

bcredliner 01-06-2019 08:15 PM

I would have the one you have rebuilt at a well recommended transmission shop familiar with BMW transmissions. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

740ilDuke 01-07-2019 12:02 AM

Looking at all the options.

Today I got the OBD2 cable and drivers installed so I could read codes through INPA. It had a couple Bank 2 codes and transmission codes. Thinking about checking the fluid level before deep diving, but dont feel like thats the issue. Worth a shot, perhaps.

Paused on the transmission since vortech told me I should rebuild the blower. I sent them a video of it and that was their recommendation. 17 years of spinning at 107k miles, I guess it was time. $399 covers the refresh of bearings and seals. I removed it today in a little more than one hour, while it's out I'll be able to do some deep cleaning. I'll be cleaning the air filter and de-gunking the area around the supercharger and the accompanying charge pipes. Thinking about having them powdercoated while it's off.

Once the supercharger is back on, I'll be able to resume the transmission fix / search for best option.

Code wise it looks like I need some new O2 sensors and MAF sensor.

740ilDuke 01-07-2019 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x5Alpine (Post 1151206)
I would definitely go for a remanufactured box from BMW. It is literally a brand new transmission with a 2 year warranty. Germany only has 6 of them left for the 4.6is. A tech at my dealership just installed his new trans in his 2003 4.6is S3.

I wonder if it includes the torque converter? #doubtIT

Approaches $3700 range with the BMW dealer option. oy.

bcredliner 01-07-2019 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 740ilDuke (Post 1151298)
I wonder if it includes the torque converter? #doubtIT

Approaches $3700 range with the BMW dealer option. oy.

Won't include anything associated with the torque convertor unless you requested that it does. You can certainly save money with a local independent transmission shop with this issue even using some higher performance parts.

x5Alpine 01-07-2019 02:50 PM

It actually does include the torque converter. my coworker with his S3 4.6is paid $3017 out the door with a 10% markup from the parts department.

740ilDuke 01-07-2019 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x5Alpine (Post 1151335)
It actually does include the torque converter. my coworker with his S3 4.6is paid $3017 out the door with a 10% markup from the parts department.

Thats good to know!

740ilDuke 01-13-2019 08:22 PM

I dont think I ever posted any pics - here it is after I got the first layer of filth off. Ready to mount the 87's but no sense in doing so until spring.

Here's the link to an album. Couldnt figure out how to post a pic in thread.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vk15C1S5ZzLy5AxMA

bcredliner 01-14-2019 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 740ilDuke (Post 1152030)
I dont think I ever posted any pics - here it is after I got the first layer of filth off. Ready to mount the 87's but no sense in doing so until spring.

Here's the link to an album. Couldnt figure out how to post a pic in thread.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vk15C1S5ZzLy5AxMA

What software are you trying to load the files from?

jsoto 01-14-2019 01:56 PM

x5Alp - That pricing sounds like cost thought. Unless Duke has a special hookup, isn't dealer more like $5+....

740ilDuke 01-14-2019 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsoto (Post 1152069)
x5Alp - That pricing sounds like cost thought. Unless Duke has a special hookup, isn't dealer more like $5+....

Nah, you can buy it wholesale from the dealer online. A BMW dealer in ATL was $2910 or so for the unit.

But, it is the same unit from 17 years ago, new or not. So Im going the other route. Valve Body from RevMax has new solenoids and other improvements, $600. Re-man TC is $215, also built beyond OE spec. Then the rebuild is $900 and another $500 labor to swap.

The supercharger is at Vortech as of today undergoing inspection! Hope its on the way back from the west coast soon. Feels like this is going to take until March.

740ilDuke 01-15-2019 11:29 PM

Phil, I’ve found a transmission that was rebuilt 15k miles ago, but has 215k miles on it. Should that be a concern? The shop says they did the works on it. Torque Converter, full clutch kit etc & valve body. I’m just wondering if i should be worried of the overall miles, or should it be alright & i’m overthinking it?

Thanks for your insight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRPhil (Post 1150873)
Issues with the fluid temperature sensor (which is taped into the wiring loom) are not unusual but (in my opinion) would be unlikely to produce the errors reported by your ECU



The ‘incorrect ratio’ codes imply that the signals taken from the turbine and output speed sensors do not add up to one of the ratios (for 1st & 3rd gear in your case) i.e. a clutch is slipping

Phil


RRPhil 01-16-2019 05:55 AM

I see 5HP24s at that mileage quite frequently and they’re in excellent condition (but others are completely ‘worn out’ at much lower mileages). When I check the thickness of the friction plates at 200k miles they’re often identical to brand new plates because the control system is so sensitive to any unplanned clutch slip that it immediately flags failsafe if there’s anything going on that could generate wear and damage. The long-term adaptions stored in the controller tweak the clutch control pressures over the years to maintain the shift times, again, protecting the clutches. Arguably at such a high mileage you should swap the controller with the transmission to preserve these settings.

Clearly, it’s a bit of a lottery fitting something at that mileage without knowing its duty-cycle history. If it’s been driven gently for the whole of its life the transmission could last indefinitely. If it’s been used for towing, frequent hill climbing, driven aggressively, etc. it may be much further through its fatigue life. Similarly, you have no way of knowing if the fluid has overheated in the past and therefore oxidised and massively reduced its protection/life.

Common failures at high mileages are the A-clutch drum snap ring groove (for transmissions built before November 2000), the B-clutch hub/C-clutch drum axial bearing failure, the F-brake piston seal (for transmissions built before August 2001) and wear in the torque converter lock-up clutch. Other than these well-known weaknesses the rest of the transmission is very durable. If the transmission has previously been rebuilt then the above issues may already have been addressed? Transmissions built after October 2001 have all the latest development fixes from the factory. If you want to know the date of manufacture of a particular transmission just let me have the serial number off the green plate riveted to the side of the casing.

Phil

burninator 01-16-2019 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 740ilDuke (Post 1152124)
Nah, you can buy it wholesale from the dealer online. A BMW dealer in ATL was $2910 or so for the unit.

But, it is the same unit from 17 years ago, new or not. So Im going the other route. Valve Body from RevMax has new solenoids and other improvements, $600. Re-man TC is $215, also built beyond OE spec. Then the rebuild is $900 and another $500 labor to swap.

The supercharger is at Vortech as of today undergoing inspection! Hope its on the way back from the west coast soon. Feels like this is going to take until March.

I spoke to my shop yesterday and they said Vortech hasn't even touched mine yet, and it's been there since last Monday. Hopefully they'll get to it today!

740ilDuke 01-16-2019 01:49 PM

Damn...feels like its gone be awhile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by burninator (Post 1152275)
I spoke to my shop yesterday and they said Vortech hasn't even touched mine yet, and it's been there since last Monday. Hopefully they'll get to it today!


burninator 01-16-2019 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 740ilDuke (Post 1152289)
Damn...feels like its gone be awhile.

Sent to Vortech on 12/28

740ilDuke 01-16-2019 01:50 PM

It came from a 2003. I will try to get the number off the tag.

VIN: 5UXFB935X3LN80178

If that helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRPhil (Post 1152250)
I see 5HP24s at that mileage quite frequently and they’re in excellent condition (but others are completely ‘worn out’ at much lower mileages). When I check the thickness of the friction plates at 200k miles they’re often identical to brand new plates because the control system is so sensitive to any unplanned clutch slip that it immediately flags failsafe if there’s anything going on that could generate wear and damage. The long-term adaptions stored in the controller tweak the clutch control pressures over the years to maintain the shift times, again, protecting the clutches. Arguably at such a high mileage you should swap the controller with the transmission to preserve these settings.

Clearly, it’s a bit of a lottery fitting something at that mileage without knowing its duty-cycle history. If it’s been driven gently for the whole of its life the transmission could last indefinitely. If it’s been used for towing, frequent hill climbing, driven aggressively, etc. it may be much further through its fatigue life. Similarly, you have no way of knowing if the fluid has overheated in the past and therefore oxidised and massively reduced its protection/life.

Common failures at high mileages are the A-clutch drum snap ring groove (for transmissions built before November 2000), the B-clutch hub/C-clutch drum axial bearing failure, the F-brake piston seal (for transmissions built before August 2001) and wear in the torque converter lock-up clutch. Other than these well-known weaknesses the rest of the transmission is very durable. If the transmission has previously been rebuilt then the above issues may already have been addressed? Transmissions built after October 2001 have all the latest development fixes from the factory. If you want to know the date of manufacture of a particular transmission just let me have the serial number off the green plate riveted to the side of the casing.

Phil


740ilDuke 01-16-2019 02:04 PM

:(

Hopefully it was the holidays that slowed their inspection/rebuild process down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by burninator (Post 1152290)
Sent to Vortech on 12/28


snik 01-16-2019 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRPhil (Post 1152250)
I see 5HP24s at that mileage quite frequently and they’re in excellent condition (but others are completely ‘worn out’ at much lower mileages). When I check the thickness of the friction plates at 200k miles they’re often identical to brand new plates because the control system is so sensitive to any unplanned clutch slip that it immediately flags failsafe if there’s anything going on that could generate wear and damage. The long-term adaptions stored in the controller tweak the clutch control pressures over the years to maintain the shift times, again, protecting the clutches. Arguably at such a high mileage you should swap the controller with the transmission to preserve these settings.



Clearly, it’s a bit of a lottery fitting something at that mileage without knowing its duty-cycle history. If it’s been driven gently for the whole of its life the transmission could last indefinitely. If it’s been used for towing, frequent hill climbing, driven aggressively, etc. it may be much further through its fatigue life. Similarly, you have no way of knowing if the fluid has overheated in the past and therefore oxidised and massively reduced its protection/life.



Common failures at high mileages are the A-clutch drum snap ring groove (for transmissions built before November 2000), the B-clutch hub/C-clutch drum axial bearing failure, the F-brake piston seal (for transmissions built before August 2001) and wear in the torque converter lock-up clutch. Other than these well-known weaknesses the rest of the transmission is very durable. If the transmission has previously been rebuilt then the above issues may already have been addressed? Transmissions built after October 2001 have all the latest development fixes from the factory. If you want to know the date of manufacture of a particular transmission just let me have the serial number off the green plate riveted to the side of the casing.



Phil



That makes the 5HP sound awesome.
What's the main differences in failures and wear parts you've seen with the 6HP? Do they share any strengths or weaknesses with the 5HP, or is the 6HP totally different?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RRPhil 01-16-2019 04:36 PM

Without doubt, the single biggest problem with the 6HP26 is faulty solenoids. These cause the vast majority of issues with this transmission. The other main issues are:
  • Transmission refuses to shift higher than 3rd gear (E-clutch slipping due to hydraulic leakage caused by wear in lead-free rear stator bush)
  • Clunky 2-1 rollout shifts (Latest mechatronic firmware updates not performed)
  • Clutch packs destroy themselves following fluid change and adaption reset (ECU cannot find new adaptions in time to prevent clutch plates burning up, due to change in friction coefficient)
  • Complete loss of drive (Failure of output shaft spline through fretting corrosion due to lack of lubrication at factory)

Mechanically though, I would say it is a more robust transmission than the 5HP24. Having said that, Audi put the 5HP24A behind their 6.0 litre W12 engine and even the 353kW/560Nm Audi RS6 Plus, so the 5-speed running gear is certainly capable of handling more power/torque than the 4.6iS E53 delivers.

Phil

wpoll 01-16-2019 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRPhil (Post 1152305)
Without doubt, the single biggest problem with the 6HP26 is faulty solenoids. These cause the vast majority of issues with this transmission. The other main issues are:
  • Transmission refuses to shift higher than 3rd gear (E-clutch slipping due to hydraulic leakage caused by wear in lead-free rear stator bush)
  • Clunky 2-1 rollout shifts (Latest mechatronic firmware updates not performed)
  • Clutch packs destroy themselves following fluid change and adaption reset (ECU cannot find new adaptions in time to prevent clutch plates burning up, due to change in friction coefficient)
  • Complete loss of drive (Failure of output shaft spline through fretting corrosion due to lack of lubrication at factory)

Mechanically though, I would say it is a more robust transmission than the 5HP24. Having said that, Audi put the 5HP24A behind their 6.0 litre W12 engine and even the 353kW/560Nm Audi RS6 Plus, so the 5-speed running gear is certainly capable of handling more power/torque than the 4.6iS E53 delivers.

Phil

Wow - thanks Phil! :thumbup:

I've always wondered about the mechatronic firmware and the 2-1 slam - assume you are referring to the EGS module firmware. Does' anyone know exactly WHAT the latest version is (and more to the point WHERE it is... ;) ).

And interesting comment about the adaptations. I've always thought that damage was a possible outcome of adaptation resets (when not required) - interesting to hear this is the case.

So if the mechatronic firmware is updated, I'm assuming that process erases the adaptations, or are they stored in a separate register and are re-applied via the new firmware?

Interestingly, I had (have) a mild case of 2-1 slam on my 6HP-26X but when I recently replaced the ATC500 power divider fluid and performed the VTG oil wear adaptation reset via DIS, the 2-1 slam disappeared. Mostly. I can still induce the slam but the car rarely does it and it's now SO much more drivable, especially coming up to Give Way signs in hill suburbs.

I have no idea why - but I'll take the win!! :thumbup:

snik 01-16-2019 10:24 PM

Interesting stuff there. Thanks for sharing.


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CleanIsFast 01-17-2019 12:26 PM

Clunky 2-1 rollout shifts (Latest mechatronic firmware updates not performed)

This software must be different than what DINAN offered, because when I had my 4.6iS - I had DINAN transmission software installed and it did not cure the 2-1 clunk. New transmission oil service did not cure it either. Only sport mode was able to eliminate the 2-1 clunk for me.

I always believed it to be a temperature issue since it only happened at 'normal operating temp' or at least what was indicted. Or solenoid issue.

740ilDuke 01-19-2019 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burninator (Post 1152290)
Sent to Vortech on 12/28

Any comms with Vortech? :popcorn:

740ilDuke 01-21-2019 12:49 PM

So, looks like it’ll be shipping out end of the week!

I’ve got a little inspecting to do, the drain line did look dry; this explains it too.
____________________________________
Scott,

The unit you sent in for inspection has been looked at and it will need to have a minor repair (bearings and seals), cost of the rebuild is $396.99 + return shipping.
The oil in the unit is fairly dirty and looks like you might have a drain issue, make sure your drain line
Is as straight to the top of the oil pan as possible. no kinks, bends or loops
Make sure the line is a no smaller than ˝” diameter”




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burninator 01-21-2019 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 740ilDuke (Post 1152729)
So, looks like it’ll be shipping out end of the week!

I’ve got a little inspecting to do, the drain line did look dry; this explains it too.
____________________________________
Scott,

The unit you sent in for inspection has been looked at and it will need to have a minor repair (bearings and seals), cost of the rebuild is $396.99 + return shipping.
The oil in the unit is fairly dirty and looks like you might have a drain issue, make sure your drain line
Is as straight to the top of the oil pan as possible. no kinks, bends or loops
Make sure the line is a no smaller than ˝” diameter”




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You came out a lot better than I did. Mine is closer to $1,400.

740ilDuke 01-21-2019 01:04 PM

Good lord. How much more was it to just get a V3?

Was yours loud?


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burninator 01-21-2019 01:12 PM

I dunno what it's supposed to sound like so I'm not sure if it was loud or not. Needs bearings, gears, and gear housing. I guess the gears are on order and should be in today or tomorrow. They say they think it will be sent back to me on Friday or Monday. Not sure about the cost to upgrade to V3, but I think they give a $500 or $1000 credit towards a V3 purchase based on the condition of the V1 or V2 you send in. At this point, I just want my car back. Purchased 12/13 and it has been at my shop since 12/18.

740ilDuke 01-21-2019 01:17 PM

I feel your pain. I’ve driven mine 2-3 times and no more than 20 miles. After this is on...sorting the tranny. Even after this good news, it’ll be 2 more weeks before it’ll be here to install. Hoping I’m driving this thing in March.


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burninator 01-21-2019 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 740ilDuke (Post 1152735)
I feel your pain. I’ve driven mine 2-3 times and no more than 20 miles. After this is on...sorting the tranny. Even after this good news, it’ll be 2 more weeks before it’ll be here to install. Hoping I’m driving this thing in March.


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I guess I was lucky enough to complete the 2,100 mile drive home from Miami to Denver, but the vc/tc gaskets (knew they were seeping at time of purchase) started leaking profusely about 400 miles from home. It's been at the shop since.

I have a pile of parts here that will go on once it gets back from the shop:

rf CV axle and wheel bearing
l+r lower ctrl arms
black grilles
floor mats
engine cover (missing when I bought it)
lots of small stuff


Can't wait to get all this stuff done and get a thorough detail done and then drive it. Hopefully it'll be back on the road by the first week in February.

740ilDuke 01-21-2019 07:57 PM

Well, hopefully we will both be riding with smiles in the coming weeks. Im looking forward to it very much so. And giving my 7 a rest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by burninator (Post 1152737)
I guess I was lucky enough to complete the 2,100 mile drive home from Miami to Denver, but the vc/tc gaskets (knew they were seeping at time of purchase) started leaking profusely about 400 miles from home. It's been at the shop since.

I have a pile of parts here that will go on once it gets back from the shop:

rf CV axle and wheel bearing
l+r lower ctrl arms
black grilles
floor mats
engine cover (missing when I bought it)
lots of small stuff


Can't wait to get all this stuff done and get a thorough detail done and then drive it. Hopefully it'll be back on the road by the first week in February.


740ilDuke 02-03-2019 06:03 PM

My supercharger arrived on Tuesday and I installed it yesterday. So far, no check engine light. I cleaned out the throttle body, MAF and air filter element and all the piping. It seems to be quiet happy and is a blast to drive, even with the Trans Fail Safe - gears 3-5 are fine, so I have that going for me.

What host do most of you use to post pics? I took a few yesterday while knuckle busting through the install. It's definitely tight under there, but it works. The most fun part was the normally easy job of tightening or loosening the belt. I'd made it too tight and it was squeaking at start up. With the headlamp out I was able to get it done in the dark.

The only hiccup I had was when I started it that crappy plastic line off the expansion tank blew off. So, I cut it out and replaced it with rubber hose and brass connectors. I'll probably change it to copper since you can buy sticks of it at Lowes for $5 & it eliminates that problem.

Next up Transmission. I found a rebuilt unit with t-case (new chains) and rebuilt and lengthened front drive-shaft. I just have to get it here from Far Far and Away.

I've had the X5 since Christmas day and have not been able to drive it really at all, but at least with the supercharger on, I can tool around with it. She's inching towards being in a good place mechanically, then on to some paint correction.

I will be selling the snow tires/wheels if anyone is interested. The 87's are sitting while the wrenching is going on. Brand new Blizzacks on Tire Racks in house wheel brand - and they have scratches.

bcredliner 02-03-2019 07:44 PM

I have a Mac and use the resident photo editing program. I save it as a jpeg file. There is a size of file limitation so if it doesn't upload the file size needs to be reduced. That can be done be reducing definition or the size of the photo. I leave the photo at the large size and reduce definition to medium and it uploads and is the correct size.

LVR 02-04-2019 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRPhil (Post 1152305)
Without doubt, the single biggest problem with the 6HP26 is faulty solenoids. These cause the vast majority of issues with this transmission. The other main issues are:

Phil

Hi Phil.

When I recently repaired my 6HP26 with new solenoids, seals etc, we noted some wildly varying clutch pressures when checking them. Some were zero, some were minus and some were off the scale.

I understand that these need to be all within roughly the same level? Do these variations point to solenoids specifically?

CleanIsFast 02-11-2019 03:32 PM

Any updates?

740ilDuke 02-17-2019 08:10 PM

Supercharger is on as mentioned, I drove it to work for a few days and noticed an oil leak, im pretty positive the drain line off the blower (hard to get at) has come undone.

Along with that, I've taken a little gamble on a rebuilt unit that is coming with a new cobra front shaft and a rebuilt transfer case (new chains) - that is shipping out Monday. So, I hope to have that installed within a week or so of it's arrival. (The rebuilt unit was sourced from here, actually - I back tracked the threads and reached out to the shop that rebuilt it, and they verified a $3500 job was done, it's only been 15k miles or so since the rebuild) So, Ill have my unit hanging around until I decide what to do with it. Hopefully nothing, but I guess Ill keep it for awhile and see how the "new" one performs.

Now ill be rounding up a FILTRAN filter for the slushbox and pick a fluid. Historically I had used Valvoline Maxlife fully synthetic, but have read that it's no longer up to snuff. I never had any issues, but id rather follow the rules...


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