How does one address P0014 (DTC 104) & P0011 (DTC 103) ?
 

My 3.0i E53 has the "Service Engine Soon" light on. Connecting an OBD2 scanner I see P0011 and P0014, both associated with the VANOS, one for the intake side (P0011) and the other for the exhaust side (P0014).

Running INPA and PASoft (BMW Scanner 1.4), I see DTC 103 and DTC 104.

So, I now have "rebuilt the vanos" by replacing the vanos o-rings (this kit) and cleared the codes, but the codes came back after starting the engine a 2nd time.

Anyone have any ideas of how to fix this? Could it be that both solenoids are stuck?

BTW, the INPA live data for the VANOS show the information in the attached jpg (same values seen on PASoft). None of the values seem to change, not even while driving. Are the position values supposed to change? Does this mean the camshaft position sensors that are near the VANOS (or on the VANOS housing) are bad?


Thanks!

Almost always when you have cam alignment problems it’s the cam sensor.

Get OE they are stupid sensitive and the aftermarket brands will give you fits because it almost never happens where a code points to the sensor itself.

The values should change but won’t charge much without load I check vanos operation while driving and best if you can graph the requested vs actual angle.

@andrewwynn: Thanks! I assume you are using some software to create a graph live as you drive. If so, which software is that? I have not seen that capability on INPA nor PASoft.

I use either my foxwell nt510 scanner or my wifi OBD dongle and software.

Torque I think is the Android version I use iPhone so I use either OBD Fusion or dash command. (oops just realized those phone solutions are level one obd they work great for o2 sensors but won't track BMW level two stuff.

Nt510/520 will graph two things at once so it's great to show the requested v actual camshaft angle etc .

It's exactly how I figure out if the cam sensors are farbled. Almost always when CPS is forked, they soft fail and give you every type of code OTHER than something related to the CPS.

With the V8 you can swap them to see if the problem moves banks but there is no guarantee that will help. They are so sensitive the difference in the reluctor wheels can make the problem stay on the same bank.

When I'm suspecting cps I bring up requested vs actual cam angles and drive. The problem usually presents for me and it's pinned down CPS culprit at least three times.

I bought the intake camshaft position sensor from FCP Euro. They say it is OEM and I hope it is because it is just a bit over half the cost of the BMW branded sensor. I'll replace it and see if that makes P0011 (DTC 103) go away.

While I wait for it to arrive, I am gonna clean the intake solenoid and see if that does anything. I should have done that when I had the VANOS housing off the engine. argghh...

Are you sure you got the vanos timing correct? Did you buy the timing tool for the M54 engine?

Here's the correct to set the vanos timing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDpMHIaxuJU

I did not touch the camshaft nor timing chain, only removed the vanos housing, so I did not think I needed to do a timing adjustment. Is it needed anytime the vanos housing is removed?!

Yep

:banghead: :bawling:

At least on M54 you don't have to remove the front engine cover to adjust the reukuxtor plates and camshaft bolt.

On the M62 the damned camshaft bolt is exactly centered on the valve cover so half the bolt is below the timing chain cover.

If I had to adjust the timing after the TC cover was on I'm pretty sure my upper cover would be modified to look like the back where the valve cover has a half circle (for no apparent reason) so I could access the cam bolt with the TC cover on.

The M54 has a lot less to remove to get to the timing. If you don't have the timing kit see if you can rent one or you can make one for holding the cams not too difficult you just need to hold the square blocks parallel to the head: two pieces of 1/4" bar stock, one long enough to reach across the head and one that exactky fits between the two cams, tape the two together and once you get it in place some zip ties to hold it against the cams.

For the front is a bit trickier as you saw from the video getting the vanos set to the right depth but I'm betting that somebody has measured that exact depth and you could set with a digital calipers vs using the fancy metal jig.

For the chain pretension: you can use a chain tensioner just put a dowel in place of the inner piston so you can apply chain tension while engine not running.

That is why you need the German Auto Solutions M54 Vanos alignment plate.
https://germanautosolutions.com/wp-c...m-Tools-06.jpg

Like I have said on this forum many of time you need the right tools to work on a BMW. Plus if you don't know what you are doing you can go on the internet and see how it should be done before tearing into it.

Thank you both for your help.

It is still unclear to me as to why the timing would be off from removing the VANOS housing. Only logical explanation I can come up with is that it is because the VANOS pistons are bolted to the camshaft and therefore their depth needs to be set to the proper place when putting them back on.

Anyway, I went to the German Auto Solutions web store and I see this note on the description of their timing tool kit:

These tools are required when replacing cam chains, cam chain guides, camshafts or when removing and replacing the cylinder head.

As we can see, VANOS replacement and VANOS o-ring rebuild is not in that list, and I did not do any of the processes they list as part of replacing the o-rings. But maybe they just did not include all the reasons their kit would be required.

Anyway, I am still deciding whether or not I should do this timing adjustment or take it to someone. If I continue driving it as it is what is the worst that can happen? WW-III ensues?

How does one address P0014 (DTC 104) & P0011 (DTC 103) ?
 

From the video is pretty clear the timing tool is used to set the depth of the center of the vanos. That probably is how the start point is set for how much the cam is twisted.

It appears that the tool only is used to set that depth: the angle of the reluctor wheel appears to have an index mark to align to the head.

If it’s just about the depth I’m saying that it’s likely somebody has used a digital calipers to measure the depth and the magic tool is not actually a requirement.

@andrewwynn: Thanks! I am likely gonna buy this kit.

Today I removed the intake side solenoid, cleaned it and tested it (12vdc) and it works just fine. I also removed the piston and spring, they were not seized or anything. I also replaced the intake camshaft sensor with the new one. I reassembled it all and cleared the codes. I will drive it tomorrow, but since the solenoid, piston and spring weren't seized, I am not too hopeful the codes won't come back after some miles of driving like they did before and after I pulled off the VANOS housing.

One thing that is bugging me though is that these past days the diagnostic software tools always show the status of VANOS as yellow. This is the case with engine off (expected?), parked with the engine ON, and while driving (street and highway speed). Below is the screenshot of what I am referring to (see items within red rectangle).

Andrewwynn, if it is not too much to ask, do you mind checking the status of the VANOS on your X5 while idle and while driving? It would help me a great deal.

Thanks!

.

I just use a scanner so I can’t read the same screen/data.

I did take these two snapshots tiny though:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...aa80831b91.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2abd63cba6.jpg


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Ok, thanks Andrewwynn!

If anyone else happens to know if/how/when the VANOS monitors on PASoft (BMW Scanner 1.4) or INPA are supposed to go GREEN, I'd appreciate that input!

That live data is saying vanos is non operational. There is something shutting down the system. Are you getting codes still. It shows no MIL bottom left so hints at no error which makes no sense.

At the time I took that snapshot, I had just cleared the errors. That's why the MIL shows OFF...

It was doing this same thing before I took off the vanos housing to replace the o-rings.

I drove today, and sure enough, like clockwork, the errors came back: I drove it for 10 miles, then parked and shut it off, started the engine and the errors came back. Same ones: DTC 103 and DTC 104.

Really stupid question: the VANOS is driven mechanically by the camshaft, right? If so how can it ever be "off"?

I suspect the lack of zero out the vanos during assembly puts the system in a state it can't achieve the required range of motion and shuts down.

Don't expect improvement until timing is set properly. Did you order the timing kit?

Well... Yes that was indeed a stupid question. It is the vanos that drives the cams?! At least according to this: https://www.bmwn54tuners.com/diagnos...-vanos-system/

Yes that is the only job of the vanos.

The timing chain is locked to the outside of the vanos teeth, the cam shaft is locked to the inside of the vanos. There is a helical gear inside the vanos that changes the relative angle between the two to advance or retard the cam shaft. It's controlled by the vanos solinoid that uses oil pressure to change that angle.

On the M62tu, they have vanos only on the intake cam, the M54 has on intake and exhaust cam.

The N62 not only adjusts cam angles it also changes how far the valves open by modifying the fulcrum of the valve rockers. I don't know if that engine also adjustable cam on the exhaust.

I have not yet ordered the timing kit. You are probably right in that because the timing is off the VANOS gets shut off... But... what is bugging me is that the VANOS was already showing as "OFF" in INPA and PASoft before I took the VANOS apart to replace its o-rings. So what caused it to go OFF in the first place?

If the VANOS indeed gets disabled (off) by the computer when the timing is wrong, that means the timing went wrong all on its own... Can the timing be messed up on its own? If so, what would cause that? Thinking broken chain or broken plastic guides or broken tentioner?

People have reported reluctor rings getting loose on M62 but not the m54. Was anything loose when you took it apart.

Feels like a wiring problem to me.

Does the computer software report connectivity to vanos solinoid and is there a way to confirm they are getting power.

Call me crazy, but I don't think I'd spend a bunch of time on why it happened vs you have it back together now and "know" (pretty much) that it needs timed, why not time it and see what happens after that?


My thought, everything goes green, you go on happy it's running again :rofl:


It stays yellow but the truck runs amazing, you go on happy it's running again :D


They stay yellow and the truck runs like crap still, well... then you've got bigger issues to dive in to :( -> But now you know for sure that it's not the timing ;)


And you can really start focusing on other things. Just a thought :dunno:

Thanks guys.

Yeah, I am gonna do the timing, but I can't get to it for a few weeks. It took me like 6 hours to do the vanos o-rings so I know the timing is going to take me at least that long. But life is getting in the way of working on it the next few weeks/weekends, so I was just exploring ideas of what else it could be.

I have been watching some videos explaining the VANOS and how the computer activates it (solely via the oil pressure generated by activating the solenoids), all very interesting. One guy on a video claimed that it is activated when you floor it... So, I went out and floored it... nothing... the monitors still showed vanos off.

My wife says I just need a new car... Lol... But I just invested a few hundred $$ on it, and a bunch of my time, so I refuse to throw the towel. But yeah, I am starting to run out of patience for it. :tapping:

:thumbup:

:iagree:

Since you never time a vanos engine before I would suggest that you bring it in and let a tech that know what he is doing perform the service. Buying all the special tool that is required to perform the job will not result in any cost saving. I have seen people do more harm to their car by trying to save some money and fix it themselves instead of bringing it in. Although I have a lot of tools and willing to buy more tools I sometime bring my cars in to have an experience tech perform the work.

You should subscribe to that Proverb, "A Happy Wife make for a Happy Life" . LOL

Nothing seemed to be lose. But then again I really did not want to touch much when I took the vanos housing off, so I avoided touching stuff. I did have a look at the guides, they seemed ok. I barely touched the chain and it looked alright.


Yes, I agree.

I do not know where to check in the software about whether or not the VANOS solenoids are detected. Hmmm... One way to find out: disconnect the suckers and see if it throws new codes.

Confirming if they are getting power is trickier, I think. I don't think I can use a non-contact AC/DC voltage detector, though I might give it a try. And a current clamp would require separating the cables... hmmmm... maybe I will insert some cables between the male and female.

Piercing probe

Yes, the thought has crossed my mind plenty of times over the past few days of course...

But I have been researching the timing procedures and it really doesn't look complicated and the tools I thought were only these.

What other specialized tools do I need? Only other one I can think-of is the torque tool that can measure 0.7 N-M.

Or perhaps you mean that such versions of the tools are not accurately built so one really needs to buy these to do the job correctly?

Looks like you can rent the GAS for just net $60. You won't beat the quality. That said the process is actually pretty simple any decent mechanic can follow the steps. I would reference the GAS steps regardless whos tool you use.


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Would you mind sharing the name of the place where it can be rented?

Dr Vanos use to sell and rent out the vanos alignment tool, not sure if they are still renting them out since it appears that they are sold out of the tool.

https://drvanos.com/products/m54-tool-kit-rental

How does one address P0014 (DTC 104) & P0011 (DTC 103) ?
 

It was in the GAS link you have above. (Where is says read this first).


https://germanautosolutions.com/stor...ental-bmw-m54/

Ok. I am finally getting around to do this... I bought the kit.

I have watched many videos on youtube, but these 3 are the best ones I think...

https://youtu.be/eNcbfAbTCb4
https://youtu.be/lQ-dfqX4zrE. <<= My Favorite one so far
https://youtu.be/OUKioU8p8p0

Many of the videos show the air intake manifold removed as the guy inserts the flywheel locking pin. Is it really necessary to remove the intake manifold or is it enough to just remove the airfilter along with the ducts all the way to (and including) the elbow? My favorite one seems did it without pulling the manifold off, but not sure if he could do it because he's familiar with the process or not.

Do you have any other videos or tips? Please share! :-)

I am gonna tackle this soon because my inspection runs out at the end of the month and it won't pass with the check-engine light on...

Ok, I took the darn thing apart, but I ran into a pair of issues already. :-(

1. The tensioner that comes with the M54 timing kit I purchased is not long enough to grab unto the threads on the engine head block. Arghhh! Anyone know of a tensioner tool that I can buy that works for sure? Or if you have one that works, could I borrow it?

2. The reverse threaded bolts that attach the vanos to the sprocket cones are refusing to come off the vanos. I have the vanos unit out, but those things seem to have become seized in the washer that's inside the piston so they just spin as I try to remove them. I guess I am gonna have to take the piston apart and see if I can get them off by grabbing the washer on a wooden vise.


BTW, in case anyone reads this in future: You don't technically have to remove anything to insert the pin that locks the flywheel, but it is difficult to see if you leave the intake boot in place. So remove the air intake boot and you'll have a good view of the little hole where the locking pin goes.

On the M62, the vanos bolts seize so bad your can break the T55 socket; you need to hit the bolt with a hammer just before removing the bolt.

Thanks Andrew. I took one of the pistons apart and got the bolt out by holding the washer on a vise and spinning the bolt.

So I examined that bolt and I see it has small grooves. See photo.

So, yes, as you say: you can gently hit it with a hammer to take it out and that's what I did for the 2nd bolt without having to take the piston apart. :-). I also did use some rust breaker on both bolts which I think helped a lot.

I also have figured out how to make a "tensioner": I watched a video where a guy was rebuilding an engine and he basically used the housing of the actual tensioner with something in it to exert tension. So I did the same, see photos. :-)

And... the guide is broken, it is snapped in half. It also looks like the piece of it that sticks downwards broke off some time ago. wow...

I will stick the endoscope camera in there tomorrow and see if it is somewhere down there, but I doubt it, I am thinking it got broken up into small pieces and melted.

How does one address P0014 (DTC 104) &amp; P0011 (DTC 103) ?
 

You need to get a proper tensioner. The tensioner uses oil pressure to push a constant amount of force on the chain to make up for the difference in length every time the engine goes through hot cold cycle.

Broken guide bits will end up in the oil pan. They won't melt or get through the oil filter so they aren't a high risk of a problem.

Yes. That makeshift tensioner I hacked together is just a tool for adjusting the timing. I have full tensioner kit with the piston and spring for permanent assembly. :-)

Cool. Thanks. This evening I was contemplating taking the timing chain cover off and replacing those chain guides too. But, I think I need a special tool to get the crankshaft pulley off. So I am not gonna do that, just gonna toss the thing when those decide to go. :-)

Just need a shit ton of torque to remove crank bolt. I use my M18 impact when I can take off the radiator or makeshift a holding bar if can't. I think oreily might free rent the holding bar.

If your chain guides are blown you need to replace. That said one guy on xo was able to squeeze the guides in either M62 or N62 from the bottom through the oil pan opening so I would also look into that possibility.

The lower chain guides haven't been an issue so far. I just thought I should do this while I am this far into it. But I am gonna leave them alone. I inspected with the endoscope and could not see anything wrong. I gotta get this car inspected and back on the road so I can start taking down the manual transmission again on my daily (not a BMW) :-)

So just to close the loop on this thread. Those two codes were indeed caused by a timing issue. So, doing the timing addressed the two codes and made the check engine light go away. The repair process is NOT that complicated. Some people make it out to be difficult and scary, but it isn't. You just need the process, the correct tools and patience. The car drives quite nicely. Thanks all for your help.

Outstanding!! Nice follow up on closing the thread also - gals to hear she’s running and playing nice again [emoji106]


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It's a little overwhelming when you look at the total project but somebody asked me out of the blue to do the procedure the closest I've ever done was to help change lifters on a under head cam engine. So lots more work.

But; one piece at a time it's totally manageable. I recommend somebody double check your work before putting the valve covers back on.

Great job nice follow up