After Trans oil Change/harsh downshift now
 

On my 2002 4.4 with 125k I had the trans oil changed and filter changed.

OEM fluid and filter. The old fluid was black.

I now have harsh downshift...also if I tap the gas it slightly bangs....none of this is extreme but now its there and it wasn't before the oil change.

I was wondering if anyone else had this problem. Any ideas maybe add something to the oil?

Thanks

How much fluid came out and how much was put back in? How did they change it? If you did a power flush it is very possible that the trans is shocked and that is not good. You want to keep fluid change in a trans to under 50% if possible.

They put as much in as came out. They dropped the pan, changed the filter. No flush, not sure if the torque converter drains or not.

I could not believe how dirty the fluid was. It was black.

Clean the transmission TCM and gear selector switch cables.

A dirty pin (and there are about 25), will give you the exact symptoms. I had this problem twice.

you need to do a transmission pressure re-learn to the computer. i haven't done it before but that's what I read from other threads here.

Can you get a little more detailed please. The TCM is the same as the neutral safety switch? Does it unbolt or how to you clean it?

Thanks, I'll see what I can fin out.

This is always my fear when considering a transmission fluid/filter change. Some have no issues and some have issues after the change. From reading and researching, I can not get a clear understanding on the adaptation resets for a simple oil and filter change.

I would love to hear more theories on what should actually be done when changing the oil/filter in both ZF and GM automatic gearboxes and also the recurring conversations of leaving high mileage transmission alone vs. diving in and rolling the dice.

One guy I would love to hear from the is automatic gearbox guru over in the UK (I always forget his name) but he knows his stuff. (RRPhil)?

I hear you....My 02 4.4 is in perfect shape and I fixed all the engine issues, timing chain guides, valley pan and 3 new sets of front ends...while I can buy a brand new one I feel committed :) So I keep this as a beater but with all my cars and bikes I want them perfect. 18 year old trans fluid was black. I do drive this a lot.

I found this procedure and will try and do this tomorrow.

"Turn key to position 2. But dont start the engine.
-Floor the gas pedal for 30-40 secs.
-Release the gas pedal, step on brake and start the engine.
-Drive FORWARD (Not reverse, so make sure you are out of your garage before you attempt to do the transmission reset) "

Do this every other month or when the transmission start slamming again.

From my reading and research, I read that procedure you listed and some described hearing the clutches reset, others on our forum here said it did nothing, no sound or no difference. BMW Logic7 seems to be the reference for your ZF box and they claim the throttle pedal--> transmission adaptations reset procedure is only an old wives tale.

Everything about your ZF 6HP26, 6HP19, 6HP28 transmission issues | BMW LOGIC7

I did find this video for the ZF gearbox and a chart listing the adaptations reset procedure but honestly, I am no expert and am hoping to learn more from this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN78ukXXF_o


https://blog.fcpeuro.com/hs-fs/hubfs...name=chart.png

Thanks, really appreciate the help. I saw those too....will report back with the trans program, if it workers or helps. I have to head out for the afternoon.

After Trans oil Change/harsh downshift now
 

TCM is transmission control module in the e-box with the DME.

You are calling the transmission position switch the metal safety switch. It actually reports every gear not just park and neutral. I’ve been referring to it as the selector switch not sure where I heard that but I just looked it up on real oem. BMW calls it the transmission position switch.

Anyhow less than a week ago somebody on xo couldn’t start their x5 because the connector to their position switch was loose (the locking collar didn’t lock).

Since the TCM needs feedback of which gear is selected to determine how to control the transmission, all hell breaks loose when it reports strangeness like it’s in gear 54 which mind did once.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...06c1a5c748.jpg

Note there is a connector after about 8” of wire that’s the position switch connector I don’t know if that goes directly toward the TCM or plugs into the transmission and piggy backs into the main transmission connector.

I have the 3.0 and it uses an internal position switch so I only have one connector.

He has the ZF trans not the GM trans. Two completely different trans. Usually slamming into gears can be associated with pressure from the valve body. Could be time for a valve body rebuild. Google valve body for the ZF trans and sticking valve.

I am currently doing our ZF 6hp19 in the e61 wagon. It has 186000+. Just barely starting to rough down shift under certain conditions. I already drained the fluid out so I am committed. I am doing the mechatronic seals (4 of them + bridge seal), mech sleeve, and of course new fluid. Hoping to find a cracked bridge seal or something as that will tell me for sure how much success I am going to have with the whole endeavor. Trying to avoid having to have the mechatronic rebuilt w/ new solenoids and internal seals. I will use the Foxwell for adaptations and resets of the trans. Will let you know how it goes OB. :thumbup:

After I finish with this one the wife's 6hp26 in her e70 is getting the same treatment with the addition of a rebuilt mechatronics unit. I'm hoping the complete service will avoid having to replace the E clutch bushing/bearing that goes out sometimes and causes pressure loss in higher gears. The symptom it is having is slipping out of gear and going into trans limp mode at highway speeds. Only done it 2 times 6 months apart, we parked it after the second occurrence so hopefully no trans rebuild is in our future. *fingers crossed* :yikes: :(

@ rockit: do you have a scanner that will show you realtime solinoid pressures? With the 4.4 it's not uncommon to develop a hard downshift from 2-1 from seal wear and usually is fixed with seal replacement from my understanding.

With the relatively not terrible prices of the solinoids, often people will choose to hear replace the solinoids with the seals. (I was planning to do that when my transmission started to slam shift before I discovered the dirty connector actually causing the problem)

FWIW, the trans reset procedure mentioned about (press the gas pedal for 30 secs etc.) is complete crap.

The reason it persists on the internet is that it DOES actually do something - it forces the transmission into sport mode - and that does feel different to drive, so the owner thinks they have reset something. But once you turn off the key - game over. The trans reverts to normal mode and you have done nothing. But by then you are convince did something and you don't notice the next trip is back to the way it was... :rolleyes:

The same sort of myths exists in motorcycling circles, for resetting ECU and throttle adaptations etc. It's all hogwash.... ;)

When I did my 535d E61 5 series (6hp28/32) the procedure from BMW/ZF was to do the oil change as per instruction and then perform the Oil Change Adaptation reset NOT the clutch wear adaptations.

So the oil wear is as the trans oil breaks down the clutch friction material will cause the oil viscosity to increase and the trans will adapt to this slowly over time. So the trans pressures required to clamp the clutches is differnt.

Once you change that fluid to nice clean new stuff the computer still thinks that it’s the old thick stuff, and the clutch application pressure it apples will be the same. So you get hard changes. Resetting the oil adaptations values means the trans is set to a datum as “just off the line” aka new oil. I’d start with the oil adaptation reset and see how it goes.

But equally ZF 1/2 soleinoids are notorious for going and are really easy to change. I’m sure when you do you can but I’m the new “E” style soleinoids...... but you would have to research that!

Only problem with that is the sump need to come back off to get to the back of the mechatronics unit. Plus if your there you might as well get someone to open the mecatronics and give it a good clean out. Only takes a bit of grit in a fluid way to change the pressure flow and therefore effect gear change characteristics.

Oh and plus one for the throttle pedal reset. It’s rubbish. At most you reset the TPS adaptations

BMW should have just not put a bloody “lifetime” sticker on it and just do an oil change every 70,000 miles life ZF reccommed!

Correct will not do anything to the transmission, but will recalibrate the throttle position sensors.


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Not even that - I'm pretty certain the TPS is baselined each time the key is turned on (when the DME is booted). I don't think anything about the TPS position is stored from one igntion cycle to the next.

Incorrect. I once reset adaptation on a buddy’s x5 and it ran like absolute shit until he did the TPS reset. There is something wonky with his x5 from having a replacement engine but twice when his adaptations were reset the car ran like absolute crap until the method describe above was performed.

I tried the program thing and NOTHING. Same thing, I hear metal banging when I shift from forward to reverse stopped, harsh down shift, upshifts are fine. When its cold 1st to 2nd and bangs then goes away after first shift.

It shifted fine before the oil change. It must be electronic of the fluid is thinner than the old black much. Again I used all OEM stuff off the tag off the trans.

Hey CW, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, at least I hope you will. I had the same symptoms with my 6hp26 (rough downshift and eveeeerrrrryy now and then a rough 1 to 2 up shift) and I did the pick ups and bridge seal on mine and it wasn't that the seal had "failed" visually that I could see, it was how MUCH HARDER it was than the new one the blew my mind!


Anyway, I did everything you're doing now and when I got it all back together (except for a broken pan bolt that I had to easy out...) it shifted really good! I then drove it for 30 days and did a simple drain and fill and now it shifts amazingly!


I'm rooting for you!! Let us know how it goes :thumbup::thumbup:

How about in sport mode, any difference? I can't offer any advice, but it may assist in isolating the fault if there is a change in shifting. Obviously not relevant when shifting to or from reverse.

Most new owners that buys or lease a BMW brand new will not keep the car beyond 60,000 miles. BMW offers their free maintenance program with a new car so if they don't have to include the ATF replacement it's just more money to BMW. Now I'm saying most, I know there are a few owners that bought their BMW brand new and are still driving it.

Is that all you did from the original post? Pan/filter/fluid change? I'm not sure which tranny is in the 2002 4.4i. 5hp24 I think? If all that was done was the above, you are probably having pressure issues. As you said the fluid is thin, the ZF stuff is very thin. If you did not replace the valve body seals at the minimum, it's probably not holding pressure.

Now, what you can try... and I have not done this personally, so I am just passing on info. Try using the Valvoline multi vehicle ATF. It is thicker and I know of a YouTuber (I know, I know) who only recommends that if just doing a pan and fluid change. It is thicker and will help with the old seals. I was going to use this, but the trans service kit I got came with Liqui Moly so I'll be using that instead. The YouTuber in question (Nathan's BMW Workshop) seems very knowledgeable, but it is just that, advice. He said it's brought back almost every trans he's put it in from rough shifts and other behavior. It's a cheap thing to try at any rate... :dunno:

This is the stuff:

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/857...2&odnBg=ffffff

Thanks, I'm hoping so. As is typical with this vehicle, once I got down there I found it needed a whole host of other things. I rescued it before it got to the crusher and it was a farm wagon in a previous life. So I got down there and found while doing the trans service that it needed exhaust gaskets, Xfer case/trans mount bushing, Xfer case fluid change, and a guibo. As a result I'm doing the CSB as well and have dropped the exhaust, trans/Xfer case cross member, and a whole bunch of other stuff so I'm waiting for parts now. Going to do the initial trans fill now (~4 liters I think) and wait to do the final fill until the rest of the car is put back together. You are right about the seals, I have pictures, they weren't cracked but they were FLAT and hard. The new ones are at least 2mm taller and much more pliable.

BTW, to anyone thinking about an E60/E61... they are the most expensive BMW's I've ever repaired. Parts are more expensive, space is limited on the Xdrive examples, and they are just in general a pain to work on. In almost a year of ownership I've put $4500 in parts on top of the $1200 purchase price. $5700 is a small price really for a VERY well sorted wagon, but it's still taken a lot of time and effort. So just a word of caution. I knew it would need more than usual being it had 181k miles on it at purchase, but it far exceeded the usual ~$2000 in catch-up maintenance/repair usually required to turn a used BMW into a good, "drive anywhere at anytime" daily vehicle. The wife and I love it though. We're certified BMW masochists. :D

Thanks..that actually makes good scene.....its totally viscosity. Yes the only thing I changed was the fluid and filter. Nothing was wrong with the trans or shifting.

THANKS SO MUCH!!!!!! Im going to try that.

I used the Valvoline MaxLife when I did three drain / add cycles back last summer and fall. So far so good. I didn't reset the adaptions. Lots of opinions on which fluid to use. Valvoline says they make the spec for my N62 4.4, but it isn't certified. It's something like a fifth of the price of the ZF fluid.

It's important to do two, or better, three cycles so that you replace most of the fluid. Most of the ATF is in the torque converter, not in the pan.

Critical (which I missed the first time): run the engine and go through the positions on the shifter after the initial fill. There's a write up on this in the docs section, I think. I also put it in Sport mode and shifted up to 3rd gear (brake on).

Just because your shop added as much as came out, that's not necessarily the correct level. Mine had lost fluid through the common problem of the mechatronic sleeve o-rings getting flattened.

Thanks!! I will.

CW, Come on man don't list prices or my wife will figure out how much I have spent!! I don't want all my food to taste like almonds [emoji28].

I'll find the email for the new old stock of e61 parts and hope that you don't "slip" and fall into the pool if your wife sees that post[emoji1696][emoji1787]

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I changed the oil to the Valvoline long life XL oil suggested above and when I put it in right away its 20% better. 300 miles so far and its about 40-50% better.

It will never be 100% but I would never use the BMW ZF fluid. Here is a tip, fill the trans until it just starts to run out, start the engine in park at idle. The dripping stops and you can get in about another quart until it runs out again when the engine is running.

A couple post in this thread say to replace the shift O-Rings
? I'm not sure what that takes but it probably is the problems I'm having now. I wish someone would post how to replace them.

Bottom line: On a E53 DON'T CHANGE THE TRANS FLUID. The fluid was about as nasty as it gets coming out but it shifted fine.

If I had a similar situation I may look into AT-205 treatment. If the sloppy shifting is from the seals getting hard that stuff is supposed to make the rub we softer and seal better.

In fact I'm planning to get some and may try before I do the filter change on wife's X5

Good info Rockit. Thanks for the update. I'll add that I just used liquid moly's substitute for the zf lifeguard 6 that these trans call for. It is also very thin. If I hadn't changed the bridge seal and the 4 rubber sleeve seals I'd be very worried.

This was on a 186000 mile 6hp19 in a 5 series wagon. I am still in the process of the fluid fill (got 3.5 liters in so far) as I was waiting for a guibo, exhaust gaskets, and csb to come in before continuing on the trans. Will update with results here to add to the knowledge base. The vehicle had no real shifting issues before the work.

The 5L40E originally came with something similar to Dexron III, so it was likely much more viscous than the Dexron VI that most are currently using. I changed mine out with the MaxLife fluid which I swear used to be a bit more viscous than Dex VI. After I had changed it out, I happened to look up the specs and it now says it's actually slightly LESS viscous than Dex VI. Unless I'm mistaken, it appears they have changed the formulation sometime in the past couple of years resulting in a lower viscosity.

It seems to be working fine in my trans, so I'll leave it in there for a while, but I may try something else like the Castrol Multi Vehicle mentioned earlier at my next fluid change. I'm not in the camp of those who believe in old, contaminated fluid being the ticket to long transmission life.

AM.

I did a total of 3x drain and fills with DEXRON VI within a few k miles of getting my 2001 3.0i. Had ~160k miles on the original fluid when I started. No problems, and very glad I did it. Smoother, faster shifting. Did it carefully, which I posted on this site back when I did it.

On the DEXRON VI vs. III, I believe the low temp viscosity of the VI is lower, and you can pretty easily see/feel this when you pour it in. But the VI is more stable, retaining the viscosity both with temp increase and with wear. So as the fluid actually operates in your AT, at temp, and after a few k miles of use, the VI will have slightly higher viscosity, which is preferred.

Crystalworks, can you please document this procedure if not in pictures can you explain in detail what you changed and the part numbers. This may cure my problem.

This is the link to the Youtuber Crystalworks mentioned, states why he uses that Valvoline oil. There are many ads but worth hearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqQxnICNJxA

I have used the Maxlife fluid in several non-BMW cars and since my E53 didn't originally come with Dex VI, I decided to use the ML because it was economical and I THOUGHT it was slightly MORE viscous. It's actually very slightly LESS viscous than Dex VI. I don't know how it compares to the ZF fluid.

I don't know what to think about Nathan. I've watched several of his videos and appreciate him most of the time, but sometimes he'll make me cringe with his methods! He's got his opinions on stuff, like all of us, but I certainly wouldn't take his advice as gospel. Just my $0.02

AM.

Yep, from what I've researched, Dex VI is a superior fluid in just about every way. With an older transmission, it makes sense to me that a slightly more viscous fluid with the quality of Dex VI might make sense. I've read where some have used Mobil1's synthetic ATF that is noticeably thicker with good success. It's expensive, though!

For now, the MaxLife stuff is working fine and it definitely made it shift faster/cleaner vs. the old OE stuff I pulled out at about 125K miles.

AM.

+1 on this.

I am glad Nathan is producing content, but he cuts a lot of corners and with some exception, doesn’t hang on to cars long-term. Several times, work he has done has come back for re-repair. Like head gaskets. He also insists you have to slather the whole valve cover gasket in RTV to get it to seal...False..

I’ve learned as much or more from Ovalbore and 50’s kid...

But the info in this forum is better than all of it.

I agree. Certainly don't take his word as gospel. But another voice with lots of experience adds to the knowledge pool. He uses cheap parts much of the time and has some opinions on various chassis that I don't agree with...

I'll definitely update with my results. Part numbers probably won't help as the n52 e61 530xi uses the 6hp19z while the e53 has the 5hp's pre lci and 6hp26 post lci. Part numbers are unlikely to line up completely.

Hey Rockit

I'm sure one of the guys will keep me honest, but I don't think the 5 speeds in the 02 use the same bridge seal and pickup tube setup as the 6 speed in CWs so that probably wouldn't help you too much.

So an update....the problem with the trans was NOT in the trans, it was the rubber damper on the drive shaft.

So my car was shifting fine, I changed the trans oil at 125k on a 2002 and it started to down shift harsh. I'm a very good diagnostician and this got me. The rubber damper on the drive shaft was cracked
/worn and aloud to wobble and created play, very hard to spot bolted together. When the car was put on the lift it most have torn the worn part further. as the suspension went to full rebound. Every time I would put it on the lift to change the trans fluid it would change the position or align or misaligned the rubber cupler. I don't know the BMW name for it.

If you have a Hugo E53 and I would change every piece of plastic and rubber you can find. I had 2 E38's with 150k and 10 years old and never had any of these issues except for the Bear radiator top house cracking as the all did because they could not taken the heat. Bear F'ed that up and took zero responsibility.

Anyway if you have an 2002-2005 or so change them now, its age rather than mileage. You will never find this until the bolts break off eventually, I had zero drive line vibration.

It sounds like you are talking about the "guibo" and there are two of them on the X5. One for front and one for rear

Good find good share. Many people could beefy from this post.

Good news Rockit! Glad you found it. Sucks you had to waste time diagging the trans, but at least you know it's good. Did you change the CSB while in there? And be glad you didn't have a frozen centering sleeve on the driveshaft. That SUCKS!!!

Thanks...I'm bad with abbreviations..whats is part is a CSB? The shaft and all sleeves bushing were fine. I thought the front trans axle from the transference case rusted-striped out splines you might be referencing.

I'm telling you the thing/worn damper absolutely mimics a trans condition.

Center support bearing. Holds the center of the back drive shaft.

You're right. Absolutely mimics the beginning of a harsh 2 - 1 gear condition. Just had that on my e61. Noticed the guibo was toast while doing the trans work so replaced it at the same time.

CSB = center support bearing. It's a common failure point on German autos. If one really let's go you'll get bad vibration/knocking under acceleration.

Thanks for the tip on the Giubo wear. Mine has some age cracks just on the outside surface, but I'm not sure how this will transmit to any problems. So as preventative maintenance I ordered the
Universal Flex Disc Kit
Assembled By ECS ES#: 2763356

Smart move!!!:thumbup:

Thanks for the link for the complete kit, will help others.

One more note to this thread. I also found the rubber Flex plate (Giube) on the transfer case axle was actually the worse one and most of the cause. The center bushing was worn and found one bolt missing.

If you change them change the trans-axle one as well.