rusted inverse torx on ball joint
 

Trying to diagnose the infamous 'brake shimmy' which has recently gotten much worse on my 01 3.0.

Managed to get tension strut out to check bushing (visually looks fine) Found ball joint was very floppy, couldn't find slop in the socket by hand, but the spindle flops around easier than I think it should.

Tried to extract the joint, got one bolt loose with plenty of patient cussing, but found the second bolt is going to be a problem. It is pretty corroded and I cannot get the torx tight in the hole. If I try to twist, it rides back out.

From research here and elsewhere, I gather I have to pull the knuckle/bearing carrier?

Unless someone has a magic screw extractor. Not in a rush so I can soak it in pen-oil for a couple of days, while I seek a solution.

Pic of rusted torx

There is a good chance you will need to pull the knuckle anyway to get the ball joint out, takes a bit of time but a lot less swearing! ;)

and less blood.... :D

bloody hell
 

Its not a Ken project unless I have made a blood sacrifice.:wow:

One day when I was cursing at the car trying to get a torx bolt out I wondered, Why in the hell do these euro cars have these stupid torx fasteners?

So I read up about torx fasteners a little...do you know they have the balls to claim that torx has less tendencies to cam out???? BAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHA!!! LIES LIES!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's some tricks I've tried...

Use an impact gun. I found the impact will give you the best shot to try to shock it loose before it strips out. I put my weight on the tool to make sure it sits in there tight and then let er rip. The first time I notice it cam out that's a wrap.

I know you normally go the blood sacrifice route, but how about we try a socket sacrifice?

Try a slightly larger sacrificial torx bit and hammer it in there.

Try an allen bit and hammer it in there.

Good luck!

rusted inverse torx on ball joint
 

Since you are replacing the ball joint anyway and wouldn’t care of the assembly gets hot, why not as you said spray her down with a half gallon of penetrating oil, let it soak and then apply as much heat as you’re comfortable with. I’ve found that if I can “expand” the metal around a frozen fastener ever so slightly.. that I have a much better chance of getting it broken free. Just a thought - and I wish you all the luck breaking that sucker loose so that you don’t have to tear the rest apart [emoji106]

Edit - I also like to take a hammer (if you can get it in there) to the head of the bolt to break some of the scale loose. You can hit the hot assembly as well and see how that goes.

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I have a full set of spline sockets which allows me to pick a smaller than supposed to size I can hammer on. Had a very similar issue replacing rear shock on a 328xi the shock mount rusted away and of course the two bolts holding it were a disaster.

I pounded on a socket made my own grooves Into the basically round fastener and got it out.

The hammering shocks through the entire fastener FYI it's a trick that works where fasteners have effectively glued themselves in. Example: cam shaft bolts: somehow install with 85 N·m takes 200 to remove unless you smack with a hammer first then more like 100.

This reminded me of some weird stuff regarding the Torx on that job when I did it on my 2001 3.0i ...

The OE ball joints used Torx E12 (External) screws.

I replaced them with Lemfoerder ball joints, which came with Torx T45 screws. Switching from external to internal just seemed a little weird to me, so I remembered it and made notes.

So anyway, your photo shows an internal Torx. Torx come in weird sizes. For example, they jump from T30 to T40, skipping over T35. And then they also have a few weird ones thrown in there, like T27 and T47.

So if the one you have there is a T45 like my Lemfoerder, then a T47 might be a ready made candidate to jam in there for some extra tightness.

To get even tighter, you might take the T47 and grind the tip off a little. The Torx are tapered slightly, so if you grind off the tip, it can go in a little deeper, which will make it tighter. Being sharpened by the grinding will probably help too. Of course clear out anything inside the screw, but the photo looks pretty clean. I definitely agree on the hammering it in there to get it fully seated before trying to crack it free.

The other thing is that not all bits are equal, of course. If you are struggling with a medium quality bit, a high quality bit may be just a little harder and more precisely made, getting the job solved.

Always struggle with this decision when facing a sacrifice

Like why did they have to throw the MOST beautiful women to the volcano gods?? Couldn't be a solid 7??

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Or two 5's.

This scenario is always a challenging decision point. If you choose the easier way and it fails (e.g., strip the screw), you just bought yourself a much bigger problem. If you overkill it, it still might not work, and may not have been needed.

rusted inverse torx on ball joint
 

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...55fbc76886.jpg

Here was the basically round nut I removed using this method. I also do have a set of sockets designed like screw extractors but female. I have better luck with the bostich spline sockets. Especially when I can cross over between sae and metric to get half sizes.

You can see in the pic the spline groove cut into the nut. I got no grief removing once pounded on.

The slightly bigger torx concept described above is the inside version of what I'm describing here. Impact, heat, hammer on the head first and liquid wrench. More planning than action will improve your odds.

If the thing strips than you use an angle grinder and cut a nice big groove for a giant flat bit and impact wrench.

I would use one of those impact driver that you strike with a hammer. The impact of the hammer strike may loosen the bolt.

Ahhh yes, the ol' impact screwdriver. I found out about those recently at my buddy's bike shop. Didn't now such an animal existed.

Duh-OH!
 

Fuuuu... DERP! :doh:

I have one of those and used to use it all the time - just totally fergot...



God I hate gettin' old...:(

Literally my favorite tool in the garage. :D Hard to over-toque most things with them too as an added bonus. Still capable of too many "uggaduggas" if you are ham-fisted. My weapon of choice is the 20v Dewalt. Have 2 of them. One brushless and one regular.

Looks like I'll have to pick one of these screwdriver thingamajigs as I don't see any reason why I shouldn't own one.

I just picked up a few of those Milwaukee Stubby impacts and a couple of their other 12v tools to help with my repetitive bitch ass wrists/hands. Nothing like years of not taking care of your injuries to ensure you're working with arthritic clenched fists when you get older <-- IDIOT!!

Love the help the power tools give with the sudden jerk and hammering to loosen seized fasteners. :thumbup:

That's the exact kind I'm thinking if you have to revert to the cut slot.


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Don't be jealous
 

Well I spent time pricing out used knuckles in case I had to deal with worst case.

Weather turned very nice (15C in the Canadian tropics out west here) so I decided to search out all the tools I thought I might need.

The essential kit is in the picture; the hammer punch extractor, impact driver with adapters, propane torch, T50 torx, WD40 and never seize (for assembly)

I had soaked the area with WD40 over last couple of days, then used torch until I got smoke on all sides of joint. Using punch tool, I hammered clock-wise a couple of times first, then switched to CC. After a few whacks and more heat, I used the impact driver, very carefully making sure well seated. After cracking at it about 30 secs, it suddenly let loose.:D

Then I applied more heat and a couple of chisels to pry out balljoint. Took my time and worked around the flange to spread a bit at a time. Had BJ out in about 10 minutes:beerchug:There was much rejoicing...

Just for shtz and gigs, I am making a DIY solid bushing on the tension arm. It just seems way to pliable.

^Nice work! Took me at least 2 hours per side to get that ball joint out of the knuckle. Maybe longer... was back in 2016 and I'm still trying to forget it. ;)

PTSD therapy - seek professional help
 

I have had my share of mental and emotional breakdown and pain when it comes to seized & corroded parts.

Therapists such as Johnny Walker or Jim Beam can help a lot:p:

K

They're great listeners :thumbup:

What are you using for the bushing? I've seen good things with windshield adhesive.

Great job spent the right time to prep and broke nothing.

I just changed a front bearing and two things didnt want to play nice:

The Brake caliper bolts were seized to the point my high impact M18 wasn't knocking them loose. I didn't want to split my 16mm socket or snap off the bolt heads and if I can I don't use penetrating oil near brake parts. I ended up getting them loose with old timer impact: breaker bar and 4# hammer. Took 3-4 solid whacks but both finally broke free.

Then, for the first time in 9 or 10 times removing axle from hub it just refused to move. 5# slide hammer did nothing 4# mini sledge nothing. Finally used the spider from the hub removal tool, loosened up the lugs, snugged up the center rod on the spider and drove the lugs back in to pull the spider to the hub. That will generate more force than the 5/8 push rod is capable of so thankfully it took less force.

Karma had nothing on you. You already had a backup plan so it would be a waste of karmic energy to fuck with you! Good job!

What's the spider?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1f82a0850a.jpg

The metal "foot" that allows you to bolt onto the hub. Should maybe be called a chicken foot vs spider not having 8 legs.

I see a more upscale therapist Hennessy!

I call that a "Hub Puller".

I just looked it up, and they call it 'axle puller' but also synonymous with 'hub puller'. Should be called 'axle pusher' i suppose. Anyhow the significant thing is that i used it differently than normal; i got nowhere trying to screw in the center rod and would have probably stripped the threads, so i loosened the lug bolts about 1/4" all three, than snugged up the center rod and with a nut on the inside to double the threads holding, then tightened the three lugs a bit at a time each until 'pop' the axle snapped loose and shot inward. I could then turn the center rod by hand to keep the axle moving.

In this situation, I would have installed the axle nut back on the axle and used an air hammer to push the axle out.

Or if you have an air hammer you can buy one of these 3/8" adapter to attach an inverse socket and with a wrench attached to the tool, you can rotate the tool as you use the air hammer to pound the socket.

It wasn't moving with 4# sledge the slow force worked great. I have a palm nailer that has similar force to air hammer I may try that next time

First time I removed a knuckle from the hub carrier it took me an hour and a lot choice words. Got myself an air hammer and the second took all of five minutes. Soaking it 24hrs prior to removal also helps.

G/L with rest of the job!

DIY bushing
 

Just as you noted; windshield adhesive. To avoid using gallons of the stuff, I filled most of the gaps with slices of old tire sidewall cut to fit and hammered into place.


I have many years of building race cars on a poverty budget, so have learned a few tricks along the way. I also know the many, if not most of parts on a car do not need an engineering degree to improve.


I have the fortune that I have another car to daily. If this was my only car, I would have solved the problem earlier with gas, matches, and a new car in the driveway....

I've had the same plan but I will also be standing next to a burning BMW yelling "The Monet is in there...."


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At that corroded stripping point, I generally just drill it out. Small bit, then increasingly larger until the bolt threads collapse inward.