Silver project adjustable camber toe kit and air suspension issue
 

So I reinstalled my factory two axle air suspension with all new parts on my 4.8 IS. New front and rear air springs new struts and coded and calibrated everything to stock height.

That also installed a 20 piece lemforder front and rear suspension kit which included brand new rear toe and camber arms

Then I proceeded to use INPA to lower the air suspension by about 38 mm which is about 1.5 in and it looked great.

When I went to get an alignment The best they could do on the rear alignment lowered 1.5 in was about -2.8° of camber with the toe set to 0.00

I proceeded to purchase the silver project adjustable kit for the rear and installed them.

Went back to the alignment shop. We set the rear camber to super tire saving mode which was -1° camber and zero toe

Everything was fine until I went to lower My air suspension system and only the front would lower and not the rear. Then the complete air suspension got into this weird state where all four corners were confused and sitting at different heights because the rear would not sit.

I tried diagnosing and debugging so many things only to find out when I put the X5 in the air that the rear airbags were physically touching the inner fender wells like bad.

I said well that's not good. So I deflated the bags and readjusted the camber and toe arms manually Just by eye until I saw that the rear airbags were no longer interfering and had about a quarter of an inch clearance between the inner fender well and the bag itself.

Then I spent about 2 days using INPA to go through a combination of resetting the ehc2 module back to defaults flashing with the default software from NCS expert based on my VO settings in the vehicle to make sure I software was flashed with sport ride height settings and then lowering and measuring each corner repeatedly and driving to settle and remeasuring etc...such a PITA

Then I went back to the alignment shop threw it in the air. Talked to the alignment guy. We both looked at everything while he adjusted and we tackled adjusting the rear camber and toe as much as we could without the airbags touching the inner fender wells.

In the end, the best we could get with the X5 lowered 1.5 in and the silver project arms installed. We got a rear negative camber of -2.1 and the toe set to toe out .16.

This actually ended up being within factory specifications, so I guess that's a good thing that I can actually be lowered 1.5 in and be adjusted camber and toe wise to factory spec the airbags have about an eighth of an inch clearance between themselves and the rear inner fender well.

Still don't have a great feeling about that and I have not seen anybody document this. Maybe people don't even look at the airbag clearance when they get their alignment adjusted. I don't know, but it's definitely a weird situation.

I was curious if anybody else had ever seen anything like this before and maybe it just one of those things where because of the way the silver project arms adjust camber and tow. They pull the control arms out from the top compared to the factory camber adjustments which adjusts from the bottom and when you adjust from the top with the new arms it brings the airbag much closer to The inner fender wells


I have pictures to document it.

Curious what people's thoughts are on this.


The first picture shows the airbag touching and that's with the camber set to -1 and toe set to zero

The second picture shows what the airbag looks like and about a quarter of an inch clearance from the inner fender well now with rear camber now set to -2.1 and 0.16 toe.

And the third picture is what my current alignment specs are.

Since the airbags are brand new, I'm not really as concerned about them Ballooning and touching the inner fender well but over time when these things stretch with age I could definitely see it becoming a problem and I may have to remove the airbags and take a grinding wheel and grind away some of the undercoating that is protruding out and then spray it with rust inhibitor just to gain maybe a 16th of an inch clearance more.

Also, the factory camber bolts on the bottom of the control arm are set at max positive camber so there is no more adjustment on that. Adjusting it back to negative would only further the problem.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3f78b5b685.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...64d10db071.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e61661097a.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

I imagine that there could be differences in OD of different manufacturers air bags?? Is it possible that the bags are offset and not installed properly?

i thought that but remembered that the Bags get installed one way. left side only fits on left side and same for the right side. each bag on the bottom is keyed to fit into the control ar for the spring clip and on top it has a guide pin that is clocked specifically for its side each bag has a different PN for left and right side as well which i confirmed.

these are ARNOTT Sport bags from FCP euro if that makes a difference

i know people on here have said you need Comfort bags for 4.8s with sport suspension VO but then someone else posted an email they received from an engineer at Arnott that stated the bags were identical in size and sport vs comfort had nothing to do with size width/height and the only different was in spring rate for comfort vs sport.

makes me wonder how many people with air suspension that installed adjustable camber and toe arms even looked at how close their bags were to the inner fender well. im sure people dont even look at that and most people probably just used the adjustable arms so that they could lower their X5 and then be able to align the rear to stock OE specs of -2.1 and in my case i tried to go beyond that and it was just not going to work.

Are the bags touching the inner fender when the vehicle is on the ground or the air? I don't have the adjustable cumber kit, but I didn't pay attention to the bags fender proximity when I replaced the rear ones. I'd be worried if they were that close. I'll check this weekend. Thanks for bringing to light that little detail.

Both of pictures showing the bag clearance to inner fender well are taken with x5 on the ground with suspension loaded.

Before on -1 camber 0 toe, air bag was touching
After with -2.1 Camber and .16 toe, air bag has about 1/8 clearance from fender well and no longer touching but it's close.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

I bought a Silver Project Camber kit comprising camber and toe arms. They were only on a fortnight and one of the camber arms collapsed. I am now looking for a replacement to get rid of negative camber. Any suggestions other than Thayer Motorsports gladly received. Cheers.

Did you also renew the rose bushes on the rear suspension?

Hello, yes everything was replaced on the rear apart from the sub frame bushes as they were not at all worn.

Do you have any pics of the broken arm? Have you contacted the manufacturer?

Yes, I have some photo's. The bent arm one was sent to me today by the mechanic who has my car and yes I shall email the manufacturer but I do not think I will be successful as they could question many things and deny responsibility.Attachment 82529

Attachment 82530

Attachment 82531

Attachment 82532

That looks really bad ; hopefully the manufacturer will help out otherwise who would buy any of their products again.
I’ve seen these HardRace arms , don’t know if they’re any good.

This seems like a hell of a lot of cost, effort and risk for not much result. Why not raise it up half an inch and probably get close to the stock alignment range with the durable stock parts?

To be honest those silverproject parts don't look quite convincing to begin with. :cool:

https://silverproject.eu/wp-content/...k2-600x450.jpg

Holy shit. :wow:

If the only concern is the camber it might be better to cut the original rear arm and weld/sandwich a piece in to lengthen it, doesn't make the adjustment friendlier though. I "think" the stock front arm should work as is but I might be wrong.

If the rear arm is longer then naturally the original length front arm would cause toe in.

The front arm is the adjustable one right ??

Yes, but the adjustment is still quite limited.

I remember last time the shop couldn't align the rear end.
So I'm considering getting adjustable control arms.
Not sure if there's a better brand?
https://silverproject.eu/rear-contro...or-bmw-e53-x5/

On my E39, Godspeed control arms were awesome in getting a perfect alignment. Unfortunately Godspeed doesn't make any for E53

I also have those arms on the back. Did plate over everything cause of the strength concerns but they have a lot of adjustability and are fine for the price.
The bulk of the force goes into the knuckle and lower arm so they don’t really have to handle all that much stress.

Side note. I beat the piss out of my e53 sow If they hold up on mine then I’d be impressed to see anyone else break them XD

Thanks for the info!
I was considering hard race, but they're twice as expensive lol
https://hardraceshop.com/search?type...last&q=Bmw+e53

No worries! Hard race also seems fine. Thinner bolt for adjustment but with the way the load is distributed on those it doesn’t matter that much.
What I absolutely loved during the instal was that it’s really easy to slide the bolts in since they are separate from the spherical bearings.
Do have to swap out the centre pin on the bushing but they are provided in the set.

Have fun! Oh and use plenty of penetrating oil…. XD

Also a perfect time to check and replace the rear brake lines. They enjoy rusting inside that beautifully engineered plastic gutter.

Ordered the silverproject ones.
I want to overhaul full suspension, so struts, all suspension components, subframe bushings etc.
Will add the brake lines, which I was looking for something aftermarket, possible an upgrade
Maybe something like this
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...ke-lines-rear/

Order a good puller kit! Those bushings absolutely suck to get out. I tried burning and hammering first but it was terrible….
I also bit the bullet and ordered everything from powerflex that I could(except subframe bushes cause I needed to move the axle back a little)

Those brake lines seem pretty neat! I ordered mine from hell performance basically the same but 15 cm’s longer. I also replaced all the hard lines which is a pain in the rear as well but some corrosion isn’t so sexy on brake lines.

Powerflex bushings are really expensive, the only benefit is the easier installation...
I'm going with rubber oem, will see if I'll be able to press them in lol.
I also want to replace the bushings for swing arms
https://i.ibb.co/VBkG6VR/Screenshot-...n-Shopping.jpg

FEBEST makes them, but it's a total junk of a company from what I heard, so luckily powerflex has them

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...ex-pfr5-710blk

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...ex-pfr5-711blk

It might be just easier to drop the whole rear subframe lol, but i think you need to drop the rear differential and disconnect the brake cables that complicates matters

Definitely drop the subframe! Makes life so much simpler. Especially when you have coil springs in the back.
Ease of installation and increased range of motion. But if you don’t need the motion increase then oem bushings work great if installed and tightened at the right angles. I’ve ruined some before unfortunately…..
I literally did all of them with powerflex can check at that semi off-road build thread of mine.

Thanks for posting that :) I'm no engineer but those look like they would be about 1/3 as strong as the stock arms. I haven't had much trouble with the using the original arms and camber but it sure would be nice to have the threaded adjustment ;) My idea would be to extend the originals which looks like it would be easy to do by cutting and welding but then there still wouldn't be the threaded adjuster.

Whoops sorry, I posted that from an email link which took me to the first page.

Then just purchase them and show as all that you’re correct with your claim/statement. Would be easiest for all of us (y)

Got the control arms, they seem pretty solid to me

https://i.ibb.co/t3VDJvb/20230713-201222.jpg

Cool! Enjoy the install :D

Those look to the same as the failed ones one the first page of this thread.

Maybe you can weld in a reinforcement where the webbing has been stretched and opening up already showing signs of failure.

I'm not good with adding stuff to pictures but maybe someone could put a red arrow to the point on the right hand side where the link is going to fail like it did for the OP.

Finally put everything together and now having issues with alignment.
Can't seem to get everything right...

1st alignment was okay, seemed to drive fine but lasted for 100km, then came out of alignment.
Vehicle could not drive faster than 60kmph on snow, was really bad, sliding left and right.


Today 2nd alignment was finished. Seemed perfect at first, steering wheel perfectly even, driving straight.
Within half an hour of driving, heard some noise, and the steering wheel now has to be turned slightly to the left for the vehicle to drive straight.
I'm not sure if the alignment is ok or not. If I'm driving around 100kmph, the vehicle is drifting left and right randomly, but not as bad as before. I compared the same terrain and speed with other vehicles, and X5 is the only one with this issue.

Called the shop back and spoke to them. Apparently the tech who aligned the vehicle mentioned that the camber/toe kit on the rear was of inferior quality. Not saying anything definitive, but he said it's possible that the kit is responsible for alignment issues.

I now wish I got the hardrace kit instead lol. Tried saving money with silver project, and maybe it's gonna cost me a lot more than had I gone with hardrace. Too early to say for sure

I've heard of those arms bending before as I was going to put them on mine.From memory aren't they quite cheap? There were some cast aluminum adjustable arms from somewhere but can't remember.

Typically the only workshops that are competent enough to correctly work with twist heim-joint style control arms aren't normal all-in-one service alignment shops where techs don't need training and just look at a computer screen after making one adjustment. You will have to take it to a racing car workshop that can set alignments. Your interaction and their excuses sounds extremely suspect. Start by attaching in this thread your before and after alignment printout sheet.

I bought the training course on alignments from hpacademy.com and did the alignment myself in the garage with a box string configuration and a camber gauge. I only had adjustable camber arms and not toe arms but was able to reduce camber from -3 to 1.25 degree to save the inside tire from quick wear and tear on my E66.

If the back is getting loose almost always from too little toe.

Use string to adjust to a bit of toe in. I used to use a 1/16 spacer under the string on the front of tire which got me 0.15° toe in.

The thing is out if you set your toe to zero the suspension will flex and give you negative toe at times likely exaggerated from your lowered stance. That will make the car crazy unstable especially if you push it in the curves.

The front is much easier the back, where both adjustments affect both camber and toe but it's not terrible to get where you want if the parts have enough range.

If the ball joint or the rear control arm outer joint is worn you can't dial in alignment the wheels will steer over a degree when braking (it's what kills the inner edge of tires not the camber; I've driven 20,000 miles on 2° camber no inner edge wear). When my control arm ball died the tire didn't last a month down to the steel.

If you pull the front of the wheel in about 1/16" vs. the back both sides of course it will probably cure your problem. Camber should be about 1-1.5°


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Purchased this kit for front camber.

https://i.ibb.co/1mWnXZf/Screenshot-...5754-Gmail.jpg

Will take the vehicle on a 1000km trip and observe further.
I'd rather have this job done by professionals they taking a course on alignment and doing it myself haha.
My rear toe is at 0.19 and 0.21 right now.
Andrew do you think toe show be more than that?
As for suspension, everything is new and oem (lemforder)

Those toe values should be good for normal and sporty driving. If the back end gets loose it suggests loose joints changing values under load

I'm gonna get under the vehicle and check the markings. I know they mark with alignment points so will check that.

This is pure hell, after 2nd alignment, drove the vehicle for a couple of times.
Drove just fine on dry roads.
Now we had a tiny bit of snow, and it's crazy
I can feel the vehicle shifting left and right underneath me, and I have to constantly correct the steering wheel slightly not to drive off the road.
https://i.ibb.co/QKV4hnF/20240204-164521.jpg
I have a feeling that the alignment came off again, and I'm not sure if it's due to these silver project arms or due to tech's error, or something else.
I'm thinking if I'm going for a third alignment, maybe I should just pre emptively replace these arms with something better to rule it out...

Remove the spring pressure (easier if air spring) and check all the ball joints for play it's the usual cause of your conundrum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

One thing I found out on my vehicle is that one of the nuts was stripped, that screws to the rear trailing arm bushing. Part 33326767546

So replaced that part, will see how things go.
Brought it in for another alignment at a different shop.

They told me 2 things.

1st. Front wishbone bushings are weak, part 31126769717
I was really surprised by it. I had pressed in new bushings just a couple of years ago, and didn't even put 20km on the car yet.

Now I'm wondering if I should go with new oem bushings, poly bushings or splurge and buy monoball bushings, I.e. these
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/BMW...l-arm-bushings

2. Rear bearing is loose.
This is probably my fault. I replaced all suspension components, and when I was pressing in one bearing, by accident I separated it, the way I pressed the hub.
So I "fixed" it, by maybe the damage was done.
I didn't block it at the back, and when I was pressing the hub into the bearing, the bearing split in half.

So if I address these two issues, hopefully I can get it aligned. Not sure what's the bigger problem, front wishbone bushings or the rear bearing.

I’ve had the Turner monball thrust arms in for a few thousand miles, and one long road trip by now. Really like them. A tighter ride for sure, but I also did a full front strut refresh with Bilstein b4s, so could be the combination of parts.

My thrust arms wore out within about 20k too. Disappointing, but I can’t recall if I went with cheap parts or OE that time. Hopefully the monoball pieces will last longer.

Done deal, ordering monoballs!
Done with this nonsense of suspension components lasting 20km on mostly great roads!

You should try the roads here in East Jesus, I would love to get 20k out of mine![emoji1787]

Sent from Embassy network using Tapatalk

Wow you need to buy an off road vehicle then!
What are you doing driving SAV in those conditions

Well it's too hot to walk, so....[emoji1787]
I have had a fairly good route tondruve lately, until the rain caused a road section to raise about 2" and @120 pretty well screwed the suspension. [emoji35]

Sent from Embassy network using Tapatalk

+1 for monoball. Had em on M2. Currently on E38, my E53, my daughter's E82 and we have a set waiting for wife's E53. Really love the feel.

Do you have both tension struts and wishbone monoball pieces? I only have the tension struts and am very happy. My wishbone/control arms are still ok, but am wondering if the wishbones make a positive difference too.

The whole kit and kaboodle on all of 'em. I can't speak to the difference of one without the other tho. Sorry ab that.

So I ordered a replacement bearing and took the rear wheel off yesterday. As I jacked the vehicle and pulled on the wheel in different directions, it was moving so much!
I was scared of the wheel bearing coming off and me losing my wheel, that's why I decided to tackle the job.

When I took the wheel off, I grabbed the rotor and tried moving it to see what was moving.

To my great surprise, the 4 nuts on the 2 control arms were super loose! 2 of them, including where the eccentric washer goes, where spinning by hand! Omg no wonder my alignment was crap! I went to that stupid shop twice, and they did not tighten the control arms??? There's no way a properly torqued control arm nut will come loose, I've never had this happen.

And the second garage I went to, jeez they told me the wheel bearing is bad! I wonder how they tested it? Don't really trust them much, since they didn't catch that all the control arm nuts were freaking loose! I wonder what the other side is like.

Well I booked another shop for tomorrow to get the vehicle aligned finally.
I decided to install the monoballs into thr thrust arms, for peace of mind.

I took out the thrust arm (glad I purchased ball joint remover, made the job so easy!), and the 2 year old lemforder bushings were completely fine! There was no excessive play, no rips in the rubber, no oil leaks, everything was fine.

I'm so disappointed in these shops and how sloppy their work is, I wish I had an alignment machine...

Now will go and replace the other side with monoball bushing and will be ready to get the vehicle aligned, hopefully for good!

Once you have alignment once you can align yourself.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5AT6...J1ejYwazU4Zm0w

Old school for the win!

Sent from Embassy network using Tapatalk

If adjuster bolts are rusty then any kind of torque measurement is pretty useless and the alignment likely will not hold. Quick Trick makes a nice set up for DIY alignments, just a bit pricey if you are not in the states but still pays for itself pretty quick.

What do you mean by that?
There's no way 4 nuts on 2 control arms (didn't even check the other side) just came this loose. Including the sides where the nuts were brand new, because silverproject control arms were brand new and came with nuts...

Are you referring to this specific kit? Doesn't seem overly expensive

https://www.eastwood.com/quicktrick-...ls-416405.html

WTF. Almost died today, X5 just started sliding all over the road. Slowed down and was driving 10 kmph to get to a gas station, and head a noise.
Found this. Alignment job was about a year ago, how the heck is this possible...
https://i.ibb.co/k2n9w9Y/20241023-100802.jpg https://i.ibb.co/RT0LYF3/20241023-094623.jpg https://i.ibb.co/2kz4dSC/20241023-095138.jpg

My mechanic showed me the problem. The control arm bolt was broken in 2 in the middle. Initially I thought that maybe the nut came undone, because I could only see the bolt from one side.
There's no question that it's a problem with the steel quality used on that bolt. Supposedly the bolt was 12.9 grade. That's a gimmick I'm sure, must be grade 5 or smth.
I've never seen a control arm bolt brake in 2 pieces.
And neither has my mechanic.
I emailed the company with photos and my experience.
They didn't ask to have the bolt shipped to them for examination, they didn't offer a refund, they didn't even offer to send a replacement bolt. What a joke of a company! I would never ever buy from them again!
Control arm bolt didn't hold up for even a year, less than 10k km on purely paved roads. Beware...