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X5 stalled/set codes while being inspected!
I drove to get my '01 E53 inspected (emissions, safety) for the last time (it'll be 25 years old next year, and not subject to the emissions requirements). It drove fine, all the parameters I monitor at all times were within specs (I use a tablet with Torque Pro running on it), and even the "emissions monitors" were reading "complete".
Then, when the inspector plugged his inspection computer into my OBD port, the engine started to stumble (never had done that before) and eventually died, with no response to me pressing the accelerator pedal. it set a MIL light, would crank OK, but no start. After we pushed it out into the parking lot, I checked underhood, and found nothing amiss, but since it seemed like it was not getting air/fuel/spark (it has to be one of them!), I tried using my backup MAF sensor (my first response, due to having MAF problems for the past 4 years). No change, so I re-installed the Siemens MAF, since it has been working great, prior to this. Torque Pro reported the MAF problem (because I had unplugged it), and for some reason the code reader function stalled-out at 79%, so I got out my Foxwell NT510 Elite, and went thru everything for an hour. There were 10 codes in many modules, including motor, immobilizer, Kombi, etc., none of which had been there before (except for a BD code in the Kombi, which comes and goes, but means nothing). I reset everything, and no code returned while cranking, but still no start. I looked at BMW-specific, OBD, and even History sections, and nothing showed up as an error, but the MIL never went off. I tried some bi-directional tests, and the SAP never tried to start, nor did the fuel system relay ever kick in. Individual injectors went active upon testing, but I never heard the fuel pump whine. Is there a specific activation for it?, I never saw one. i had it flat-bed towed home, $120 out-of-pocket (never could reach AAA), so now it sits where it got dumped in my driveway. Where do I go from here: fuel system relay?, check the fuel rail Schrader for pressure?, spray starter fluid into the intake while cranking? HELP |
my bet is just horrible odds of coincidence and fuel starvation.
Siphon jet? Main pump? Relay? If there's a vacuum port downstream of the MAF that's where to spray some start fluid but just key on/ key off and that will prime fuel and poke the shraeder valve with something pokey (i use a torx driver) with paper towel around to catch the spray. Check EWS for errors if it's not happy you'll get no fuel. Usually this only happens if the car doors long enough for the battery to go flat but rule it out. Call AAA; they should reimburse for tow, my insurance does. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
I don't believe in coincidences, though I'm always the victim of them happening
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I'm leaning toward fuel starvation, not air or spark, but surely the ignition didn't fail when the inspector plugged his computer in, and wouldn't the DME show (and retain) a code for that? At first, before even scanning for codes, I thought the inspector's "plug" may have temporarily shorted some pins in the OBD port, but since my Foxwell had no problem, that couldn't be the case? |
off-hand chance that an additive killed my fuel system?
Just thought about the above; I used a bottle of Cataclean two days ago, in lieu of my semi-yearly use of Liqui Moly 2007 Jectron Gasoline Fuel Injection Cleaner. I had been meaning to try Cataclean for some time, since a friend had used some and it helped with his car (2008 Chevy).
I didn't get a chance to drive my X5 the way the instructions said to do, so could there be a chance that the additive dissolved a component in my fuel system? It's possible that the fuel filter became clogged (with only 7 miles and 15-20 minutes run time), but shouldn't the fuel pump or relay would still try to work? The only other item I changed, a month or two ago, was a new fuel cap, but it has had no ill effects on the X5 after installation. Just scattershooting ideas, trying to reason why the sudden failure occurred. |
I've stalled out due to a faulty siphon pump. Check the cluster OBC tank level readings, the pump side (right IIRC) will be 0 and the left will show fuel, if the siphon pump fails.
I've also had a fuel pump die on me once. Truck wouldnt start leaving from home. Verified no fuel pressure in the rail by depressing schrader valve and verified fuel pump relay was working. Decided to try the pump first and it turned out to be it in my case. EDIT: Also, I remember the broken siphon pump only caused a stall condition for me if you got below a certain fuel level, around half tank. Above that the truck ran fine in my case. |
It sounded like you didn’t hear the pump priming. Suggests electric or mechanical fault.
You can confirm no fuel pressure at the rail. You can jumper the relay or at the pump to force the pump on in case it’s not getting power however the symptom suggested pump failed or siphon jet (you may not hear the pump if it's dry). If the tank is close to 1/4-1/3 tank it's very lightly siphon jet and you just need to add gas. If so don't clear codes it'll delay getting emissions –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
this may take awhile to diagnose and/or repair, darnit
I spent all afternoon cleaning-up my '09 Chevy HHR Panel, in order to go shopping for the wife (sick), and to get gas (last time she drove the HHR, she didn't put gas in it...as is her habit when she drives a back-up vehicle), and to drive to the tax assessor/registration office, to pay for and pick up the sticker for my '04 Chevy 2500HD (15 days after I got it inspected, so the grace period was long past to drive it).
I couldn't take her Lexus (I've only been allowed to drive it once...turn-about for fair play is that she isn't ever allowed to drive the X5, hahaha), nor the '98 GMC 1500 (her truck, but I'm allowed to drive it), which has a bed-full of landscape timbers and pavers. With my bad right shoulder and bad left wrist, it took me forever to wash the HHR, after it had been sitting for 4 months, under an oak tree. No time to even look at the X5 today. Quote:
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What was the fuel tank level when the engine died?
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Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk |
The mid cluster OBC is confusing for me too. I tried to use it on an E46 once and couldnt find what I was looking for lol.
The tank doesnt need to come down for fuel pump or float service, it's all accessible under the rear seat cushion. Lifting the rear seat cushion up when checking for fuel pump function might help make it easier to hear. Sorry to hear about your tinnitus, going through that as well. |
Sitting in the X5 right now, after topping up the battery. Engine cranks strong, no start.
I pushed in the Schrader valve, before charging, and there was no pressure at all, as I expected, since the engine had obviously run out of gas (now that I had time to think about it). Perfectly quiet inside, no sounds outside, so I should have been able to hear the pump relay click on. The fuel pump, of course would need the relay to trigger it, so next thing is to pull the glovebox, and replace the relay. Unless there's a master fuse somewhere. I have a Chinesium power probe substitute that I might be able to power up the pump itself, bypassing the relay. Never used it, so I'm afraid I might short out something. I'm going back inside, and ill examine wiring, fuses, and relays. Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk |
Check with a test light or multimeter to see if you are getting power to the fuel pump and go from there.
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humor me, I'm old
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The way I'm reading the "Fuel System Troubleshooting" diagram (Bentley), all I have to do is apply 12v to the white/blue wire going into the pump motor. I can supply 12v via my power probe clone. I'll use a wire-piercing probe so I don't even have to unplug the pump. The pump should respond, shouldn't it?
this way, I can eliminate power supply problems coming from F47 and the relay. According to my fuse & relays chart, there's also a F51 (tagged 009) supplying the system, too. Where the heck is it located, if i need to check it later? Attachment 85110 |
The best way is to start at the pump, just takes a few minutes to get to and much more likely the problem is under the seat than the relay or fuse.
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I've got the seat out, just formulating my next step.
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The 2 big wires are + and- for the pump, the 2 small ones are for the sender. Take the plug off (retainer slides back) and it might be obvious if you have a burnt connector.
Fuel pump is RH(passenger side) |
:thumbup:
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Burnt connector has shown up on xo recently.
Apply power to the pump directly. If you get pressure at the rail it should start. If no pressure at the rail/no pump noise it's likely the pump itself. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
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I was hoping that it was a fuse
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Attachment 85112 to apply power (12.6vdc) to the pump's positive terminal (where the white w/blue stripe wire attaches), and the ground wire/alligator clip to the pump's negative terminal (where the thicker brown wire attaches). I tried several times (while using my multimeter to confirm that voltage was being applied), with no result. No sound, no vibration, no nothing from the pump. Now, I'll be shopping for a replacement pump. By the way, it looks like this pump has been there for many years, judging by the accumulation of dirt and dead spiders on top of the pump, and under the seat. I'll never know if it was the original, even after I pull it and clean it. In my experience, I have had to replace in-tank fuel pumps only three times before: on my '86 S-10 in 1999 (at 200k miles), on the '98 GMC 1500 twice (mileage not recorded), and in 2000 and 2004? (I helped do it, when the truck belonged to a friend). The GMC is still on its' third pump, after 21 years and now at 186k miles, go figure. With the disparity in longevity of those first three pumps (13, 2, and 2 years) I have no idea of whats normal for these pumps. My '09 Chevy HHR Panel and my '04 Chevy 2500HD pickup are (knock-on-wood) still on their originals, at 185k and 141k miles, respectively, as a point of reference. So if the '01 E53 has made it to 212K miles on the OEM pump, that's pretty good! |
If you want to do something while you are waiting you can try rapping on the tank with a 2x4 or something while someone is cranking the engine, sometimes will get the pump going again! ;)
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I haven't figured out if 1) the pump is dead,2) the filter is clogged>keeping the pump from working (gasoline isn't compressible), or what. In your thread praising the Delphi pump (at first), I stated that I'm unsure about which pump to get.
I'll rap on the pump tomorrow, when I pull it out and test it in a bucket of gas. That'll be the final test for the pump, but regardless, I'll be getting a new one. I'm on the fence about getting a new filter (it'll be hell on my poor old body to crawl underneath to change it), so we'll see how things go after a new pump assembly is installed. The PO replaced the fuel pressure regulator about 3k miles agao, while he was preparing it to swap to me), but nobody knows the age of the filter, itself. |
The pump has a relief valve so the filter being clogged will not stop it from running. You would think if someone went through the work (it is a bit of a job) to change the regulator they would have changed the filter as well but you never know.
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I asked my neighbor why he didn't replace both the filter and regulator at once, but he said it didn't seem to need both. of course, he's a Subaru, Kia, Jeep, and Dodge Ram fan, so what would he know. hahaha |
Usually and hopefully it is just that.
I've gone Pierburg and Bosch on MB's and other BMW's and they were always good. For the E53 you can change just the pump or the pump/float assy, it just gets a bit fiddly replacing the pump. Sometimes the old plastic breaks, sometimes the wiring insulation is all gone and you risk shorts. Also, one gotcha for me was centering the float on the divot at the fuel tank floor. Went through 3 broken left side floats before a tech with experience showed me the problem. Suggest doing that job with as close to empty a fuel tank as possible. |
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The fuel filter is huge on the e53. It's usually good for life or 3-400,000 miles. The o-ring on the FPR is what will fail first. When that happens the symptom is hard starts.
If you have the seat up for access to the pump top you can use the percussive maintenance yourself. A rubber mallet white in the seated position. I forgot if you're 3.0 or 4.4. The 3.0 will prime the pump at key on. Most 4.4 will wait until start to turn on the pump due to the auto crank feature. As mentioned if the filler was plugged the fpr will just open at 50 psi and send everything back to the left tank. MTBF on a fuel pump using E10 gas is 5000 hours. On both mine and wife's original pump that was crazy close: within 3-4%. Look at your average mph and multiply by 5000. Eg 27*5000=135000. If your odometer is over that number your pump is overdue for replacement. If your siphon jet is still original definitely time to check it's o-ring. I would take a jump pack or M12 battery and hotwire the pump to see if it runs with power directly applied. Rap on it at the same time. If it spins, start the car just to get it some exercise and check codes. I had issues with the pump being a different size when i replaced just the pump and had to modify the frame. When changing the whole assembly with discount model, the float wasn't at the same height and it changed the tank fill values. It's imperative the foot gets into the notch in the bottom of the tank as mentioned. The gasket on the pump assembly usually falls off during removal. It must go on the pump not the tank during assembly. I wet it with a dab of gas with a gloved finger to ease install. It's one of the easier jobs. 3/10 difficulty hardest part is battling the seat that wants to fall on you. I opted to detach the middle seatbelt by the third time i did this job. Fold the float up to remove vs. attempt to tip the pump sideways. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
I forgot to mention that I also used my multimeter to test the motor windings, It showed OL-open loop, which I believe means there is a break in the circuit, and the motor is faulty and will not work. So, time to order one.
Again, my X5 is a 3.0i, and there was no "prime" either at the inspection station, nor now, under test. I guess I won't have to use stating fluid, sprayed into the intake boot, to see if it'll fire up, or even try to (my usual test for ignition spark when I don't want to take out plugs or use a spark checker tool...which I can't seem to locate, of course). Following 80stech's advice, I won't be testing the pump outside the tank...I have a reputation as both accident prone, and a bit of a fire hazard (BBQ starting incidents). From what you guys are saying, you've bought replacement pump motors and had trouble with installing them into the old housing, or had to modify them for fit??? So, I will get a Hella pump assembly, to drop straight in, and because it is half the price of the Delphi, and a third (or less than the BMW OEM assembly's price). Beggars can't be choosers! |
indecision
Before I order a pump assembly, I was looking over the possible choices, and saw that I overlooked a pump assemble by Meyle, on ECS Tuning, for $182 vs the Hella assembly for $138 on RockAuto. Would the Meyle be better for $44 more, any opinions?
The Hella has a 12-mo guarantee, but I can't find the warranty on the ECS site, for the Meyle assembly. |
ESC lifetime exchange i think
–awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
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Brushed motor. Will read a few Ω if functional. Definitely motor bad. How many miles Odom? What's your average mph (from dash).
(I collect this data for the next guy) –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
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Not too surprising. I needed one fast and bought an Amazon special for $120. Lasted 11 mo. but the Warranty replacement lasted years until we sold the car. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
"pay once, cry once" vs. "pay, and pay again, crying all the time" parts buying
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pump ordered, prparing to remove bad one
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I vacuumed and cleaned the area, so nothing will contaminate the fuel. Took a photo of the extremely aged-looking top of the pump, and it has a reversed BMW logo and part number barely visible...might be oreiginal to the X5? I've got a '98 GMC with a 21 y.o. pump installed (I did it myself, so I'm sure of the age), so 24 years on a BMW pump might be achievable.
Attachment 85113 Then, I ordered the Hella pump assembly from RockAuto. It should be here in five days, so I can have all my tools and parts gathered and ready for the job. I can't find my brass punch to loosen the sealing ring, my hose-gripper pliers, nor my kit of small clamps (both worm gear and spring clip types). It looks like my garage Poltergeist has returned, or am I just getting forgetful? |
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I just saw 80'Stech's Delphi thread and while I didnt have the mismatching pump size problems when I got a pierburg, working on an old sender there was the feeling something would just crack or break off. I've not experienced burnt sockets but the insulation breaking off on the bump harnesses I've seen (both MB and BMW's) seem like they could be a cause of that kind of a problem too. EDIT: I see you got the Hella. I'd suggest a fan for ventilation to add to the preps. Working in gas fumes suck ugh. |
I prefer to muscle the ring off rather than hit it with a punch/screwdriver.
One message I used was taking some flat bar stock 1/8 by half inch and bend it into a U shape upside down. hook that onto two of the little bumps on the ring and put any long bar like a breaker bar between the two ends and turn. I made a custom tool out of the bar from an old Quicke clamp that I just put a big wrench on and turn it off. that said every YouTuber just uses a screwdriver and a mallet. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
Your mysterious fuel trims might have an explanation. The pump my have been dropping pressure while hot and running. Let us know how you like the Hella pump. Mine is due for one too. 170k miles is really pushing it.
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Reset the fuel gauge with test 21.
–awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
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Not familiar with this and it's effects, what does it do? Hope it improves gas mileage lol! |
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https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...c-foxwell.html Here's a list of what the 21 settings are all about: THE LIST: ========= Instructions to access the hidden OBC functions: 1. Hold Trip Reset while turning ignition key to on position 2. OBC should show "Test" 3. Use Trip Reset to select function 19.0 that unlocks all the features 3. Wait for display to show "Off" 4. Depress Trip Reset for 1/4 second and release it 5. With no delay press Trip Reset several times to select one of the following function s ========================================== BMW E46 On-Board Computer (OBC) Hidden Codes nr example description 1 Car Engine and cluster data 1.0 46nnn Chassis nr/VIN serial number (last 5 digits) 1.1 4nnn K-number 1.2 690236 Cluster Part # 1.3 045210 Coding (04)/diagnosis (52)/bus index (10) 1.4 1200 Week (12)/year of manufacture (2000) 1.5 09_160 Hardware (09) and software # (16.0) of cluster 1.6 Not used 1.7 04__44 CAN-version (04) KI-revision index (44) 2 (test) Cluster System Test - Activates the gauge drivers, indicators and LEDs to confirm function 3 SI Data 3.0 1098 Used fuel in liters since last SI (Service Inspection) 3.1 0231 Periodic inspection days; elapsed days (since last SI) 4 Momentary Consumption 4.0 0145+ Instant fuel consumption - 0145=14.5 liters/100km 4.1 0018 Instant fuel consumption - 0018=1.8 l/Hour 5 Distance Gone Consumption 5.0 082 Average mileage; 082=8.2 liters/100km 5.1 0536 Calc. km to refuel (momentary distance to go) 6 Fuel Level sensor inputs in liters 6.0 109330+ Fuel level averaged; Left half sensor input=10.9 liters; Right sensor input=33.0 liters 6.1 0439+ Total tank level averaged; vlgs 6.0: 10.9+33.0=43.9 liters 6.2 0442+ Indicated value (44.2) and tank phase 7 Temperature and Speed 7.0 021+ Coolant/Engine temperature (2.1C) 7.1 130 Ambient/Outside temperature - chg met 5 pts. 125/130/135 7.2 + Engine speed / Current RPMs 1/min 7.3 + Vehicle speed / Current Speed in km/hour 8 Input value in HEX form 8.0 1d0+ System voltage ADC-Value Hex code 8.1 26C33C+ ADC Values HG left/HG right 8.2 0000 ADC Value brake degradation sensor (000=o.k.) 8.3 18C ADC Value outside temperature 9 Battery 9.0 140 Battery Voltage - 140 = UB 14.0v 9.1 242013+? 9.2 074_78+? 9.3 0011+? 10 Not used 11 Not used 12 Not used 13 GonG Gong Test 14 Not used 15 Status cluster I/O-ports (bit codes) 0=low; 1=high 1st-belt contact, seat belt fastened=0; 2) ignition lock contact, key inserted=0; 3) door contact, door open=0; 4) clock button pressed=0; 5) SI reset=0, for reset=0; 6) EGS transmission failure=0 Status Digital Outputs (bits) 0=inactive, 1=active 1) Gong output; 2) Brake warning lamp; 3) Low fuel warning lamp; 4) EGA lamp; 5) seat belt lamp; 6) manipulation dot 16 Not used 17 Not used 18 Not used 19 Lock Status; unlocks functions in range 3-18 19.0 L-On/L-Off Unlock: press button when "L-Off" 20 Not used 21 Software Reset; reset OBC settings 00 End of test Maybe that was the first sign of an old pump & sender about to go out. I have the low cluster, and the Previous owner lost the MID, somehow. Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk |
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Mostly it helps recalibrate the fuel gauge that uses a buffer and can get really out of whack when the pump had had problems and replaced. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
Thank you guys, for the clarification and additional info!
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improved version of OBC list added above
I substituted a better copy of the OBC LIST into my previous post #41, for easier reading.
Though it was intended for E46 models, it works on the E53, at least in my low-cluster model. |
I can't get the x/&zz!! locking ring to screw on!
I received the Hella pump today, a day earlier than I expected. couldn't wait topull out the OEM, and install the new pump. That was 2 hours or more ago. I still haven't got the locking ring back on.
I even got the wife to come help me, because of my bad left wrist & thumb, and my entire right arm is getting worse by the day (I know, excuses, excuses), and we finally gave up. Dhe went back to her new living room make-over project, and I'm in my office looking at videos to see what I'm missing, or doing wrong. I'm making sure that the tab on the upper edge of the pump assembly is going into the slot of the serrated ring, but whenever I'm trying to hold down the pump (it's strongly trying to pop-up), and simultaneously trying to get the locking ring to catch threads, it cocks sideways and I lose my grip. What am I doing wrong? I've never ever had a problem installing an in-tank pump before, but it's happened now.:banghead: |
X5 stalled/set codes while being inspected!
It sounds like you don’t have the foot in the notch at the bottom
Also, are you putting the ceiling ring on the pump assembly before installing? –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
exactly
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I watched a YouTube video by TRQ "How to Replace Fuel Pump Assembly 2000-2006 BMW X5" https://youtu.be/asqvlLFTAng, which was the first I saw placing the rubber seal on the rim of the tank. I had installed it before taking it outside for installation. Who knew that it would make such a difference? The X started right up, no delay, and the fuel gauge needle went straight up to full (not past full as it usually does on a full tank). However, my tank isn't full, so I'm gonna need to reset something. The sender arm went straight in, with no interference, so I don't think there's a problem with it. |
Good to see you got it running!
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Nice! I was about to post the same video. Drive it like you stole it! :bmw:
Report back the new fuel trims! The video guy didn't install the new pump! |
Yes, the ring goes on the tank NOT the pump. Take it out one more time to check the sender and your work and look for open or short (I think open is full but you can verify that by unplugging the connector) I've never had to reset or recalibrate anything.
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as long as it runs, now, I'm good for awhile
On another day. It took me another 2 hours to gather and put away tools (and at least 30 minutes to put the seat back in...cut the crap out of my hand doing so). At this point, I don't care what the dashboard fuel gauge says, I'll just fill it up and drive maybe 150 miles, then fill again. I'll get to it later this fall.
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The order of the seal is confusing because it almost always comes out with the assembly.
The level is averaged but if you don't reset it'll work itself out within a tank or two. How it affected me is that with a full tank it showed 3/4. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
Update, after first test drive with new fuel pump
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Following the installation of the new Hella fuel pump on the 21st in this thread https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...inspected.html, I only drove it down my driveway just far enough to turn it around, and left it at that. I rested a few days (of course I did, after every repair job I do, now) and finally, after some rainy days, decided to make a test drive today, on the 27th.
I had two items on the agenda: fill the tank, so I would know where the level was (I don't trust the gauge, since it reads full, and the tank wasn't), and to get the emission monitors to "complete" by driving a "drive cycle". The fill-up was 9.6 gallons, so I know that the gauge is wrong, and my "drive cycle" completed all but three monitors (I only drove 10 miles, in a loop around my semi-rural house, due to backed-up rush-hour traffic). I'll drive another cycle until all, or all but one, monitors are complete, before I try again to get it inspected (its' final emissions certification, hooray!). Attachment 85123 Problems? the X5 almost stalled twice (once backing out of my driveway, second time leaving the gas station onto a secondary highway)...it never previously did that. Plus, now, the accelerator is extremely responsive, with no hesitation (which it had before), so much so, that I thought it was in Sport Mode (making downshifts) or someone installed Nitrous on the M54, it was so much. And, there was another difference.... I've been chasing lean fuel trims for 4 years now, unsuccessfully, but they've been brought mostly under control sfter X5chemist donated a "proven to work" Siemens MAF to me (thanks again!). I monitor them constantly on my dashboard-mounted Android tablet running Torque Pro. The STFTs bounce from about +4 to -10, to adjust the LTFTs that stay in a +3 to +8 range (plusses indicating a lean condition). To my astonishment, I'm getting rich condition numbers, now. While the LTFTs have started to waffle between -4 and +4, the STFTs are all over the place, and have gone as far as -28.5 at times, under acceleration. WTF Even at idle, inthe driveway upon returning home, it still looks odd (rich) to me Attachment 85122 |
Sounds like you might have HAD a weak fuel pump for a while and/or maybe a restricted fuel filter. Maybe reset adaptations and don't focus as much on the fuel trims.
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is new pump weak, or is it stronger?
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I've experienced wild swings in performance on a couple of vehicles before, after changing component(s): 1.) a CPU + high-powered fuel pump +injectors + race tune, and even on 2.) on a pickup truck, following a simple battery replacement (it had to re-learn everything, for some reason...my '04 Chevy 2500HD). At least that's what I'm hoping it is, otherwise I'm going to have to use the parts cannon (fuel filter, regulator, lines, etc.). |
Reset the adaptations to get a clean start from where the mixture should be and go from there. A new fuel filter would probably be a good idea anyway.
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The FPR will keep pressure constant. If you had too much psi it's the fault of the FPR which comes with the filter and if it's Original it's overdue
–awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
As far as the gauge, maybe check the connector and then take the pump out again and have a look, maybe something obvious with wiring or a bent sender contact. As I think I said before the picture of the Hella pump at RockAuto showed one of the contacts oxidized already so it would be a good idea to have a look at that and use some contact grease if you haven't already.
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I'll start with resetting the adaptations, then I'll dig out my fuel pressure tester and see what that shows. One of the last things my neighbor did before we swapped our vehicles, was to install a new Bosch FPR on the existing filter. He was cutting corners at that point in his refurbishment program, and when I aked why didn't he ask me for additional funds, or even help, he didn't have a good reason. Now, it's my problem.
If I can't get the gauge to read correctly, I will pull the pump and fiddle with the sender. I didn't grease any contacts (I was in a hurry), nor did I take time to test the sender with my multimeter. I hate doing an install twice, but I may have to, now. If the fuel pressure looks good, the fuel trims settle down, and I grow accustomed to the sudden increase in acceleratory power, I can live with a bad sender (five of my last eight? project cars had bad fuel gauges, speedometers, or tachometers...or combinations of the three). I do my own workarounds. |
LTFTs -4 and +4 = 0 Basically perfect! Short term will bounce around based on idle, running, and WOT conditions. If short term stay between -/+10, it's good. You might have a little carbon build up. Drive it like you stole it! Blow out carbon out the exhaust! Driving it like a BMW M4 eventually stopped it from smoking. I6 like RPMs! I better start planning on a fuel pump replacement soon. Maybe after it passes inspection this year.
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I'm hoping to get the emissions monitors set and get the X tested before Sat Nov. 1, but there's a 7 day grace period afterwards, so I have some time to get the odd behavior sorted out.
I'm only concerned about the two times it semi-stalled and the STFTs swinging between +/- 28.5 under hard acceleration. Also, it once had a delayed shift (hung in gear) going uphill under hard acceleration. Never had any problem with the transmission before. I'm hoping that resetting the adaptations will work miracles. Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk |
Under heavy acceleration uphill it's pretty normal to stay in the current gear up to redline depending how heavy your right foot.
If your dash gauge doesn't match fuel level, use test 21 –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
from lean to rich, with wacko fuel trims, stalling, and surging
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I reset adaptations, as advised, then took it out on a 22 mile drive cycle (but mostly stuck in a stop-and-go freeway back-up situation). No progress towards a successful inspection, but seemingly headed in the other direction. It drove fine for a mile, until I reached the hilly curved section near my home, whereupon it took off like a scalded dog, and set two faults and the SES light. i drove it another mile to a parking lot, where I read the codes P0172 and P0175, both RICH codes, on my Torque Pro app (doesn't give BMW-specific codes). I cleared the codes, and SES light, and carried on wit my drive. Again, the X5 showed increased power & firmer shifts (probably partly due to reset adaptations), and the LTFTs steadily went from -4.69 on both banks, to -8.59 on both banks (where it stayed for the remaining 20 miles, and still is there at idle, in my driveway). The STFTs were a little better, I think, than last time, never reaching past -12.5 (as opposed to -28.5, previously) and often were going positive, as far as 8.5, once in awhile). Progress ? I could live with rich fuel trims, as long as the SES light stays off, just long enough to pass this year's inspection...its' last (I had the oppossite problem with lead fuel trims for the last four years), but there were two glitches in driveablity, as I returned home. At the same spot that it had accelerated too much, and then hung in gear returning home the other day (uphill left 90-degree curve), it seemed about to stall or go into limp mode for about 10 seconds following the curve, but it regained power just in time to do the same thing, on a flat 90-degree curve (right) that followed. Full power came back quicker, as I approached two full turns and my driveway in a left-left-right pattern over 600 yards. I sure DON"T want stalling nor limp mode around my area, because of the narrow country roads with no turn-offs, and limited visibility (and tailgaters driving way over the posted speed limits). Another thing, my O2 sensor monitor won't complete now, but it has always completed within 15 minutes or 15 miles of driving, previously. I'm hoping for some progress tomorrow (if I decide to chance driving a posslbly stalling X5). OR should I just buy a fuel filter with regulator...it's the one item that could control over-fueling where there was under-fueling, before. Here are today's Torque Pro displays vs yesterday's: Attachment 85124 yesterday, emission monitors nearing completion Attachment 85125 today, o2 monitor not completing Attachment 85126 yesterday, 1st sign of rich conditions Attachment 85127 today, rich LTFTs stuck at -8.59, worse? |
Have you measured fuel psi yet? If it's over 50 FPR is shot and will cause rich mix and negative trims.
The MAF can send incorrect value to cause a similar problem also but I thought i saw you tried a couple different ones. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
more work to be done before I spring for a new FPR+filter
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Years ago, on 5-11-2022, when I measured pressure, it was Attachment 85128 barely at minimum, IIRC. But, i didn't have misfires, hard starts, or long crank times, and only had the mysterious lean fuel trims (that everyone assured me was a vacuum leak...never found one). Now, with a new fuel pump, and suddenly running super-rich, it doesn't look like a vacuum leak anymore. What sort of fuel pressure would cause those fuel trims I'm now getting? and the surges of power, and/or the stumble/stall/limp mode following those 90 degree curves? After using cheap $20 MAFs to combat erroneous fuel trim numbers (trying anything to do a workaround, since I never found the root cause of the lean trims), X5chemist showed pity for me and offered a proven-good, OEM Siemens-VDO MAF for me to use, at least until i could find the true cause of my lean fuel trims. the Siemens-VDO MAF was giving me fuel trims that were much more normal, and I was quite happy with those numbers, and had thought that perhaps it wasn't a MAF problem, or even a vacuum problem, but maybe an injector problem (but why in both banks, with injectors only <5k miles old?), and I was using more and stronger fuel system and cat cleaning additives to try and fix the flow; I should've reasoned that the fuel system further upstream was the culprit. |
The only way the fuel pressure regulator can provide more fuel is if the diaphragm is shot and then you will fuel going up the vent line to the intake boot, easy enough to check. The other only way would be that somehow the vent line is plugged and pressure is building up in the regulator, or you have that vent hooked to pressure somehow. If I had to throw out a guess I would say MAF. How do you have <5k on the injectors ??
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I'll check the intake boot tomorrow for fuel (coming up the vacuum line?), and use a pump to suck air or fuel up the line going from the F-connector to the FPR. We'll see what comes out.
The Bremi injectors were installed new by my neighbor during the 3.5 year period when he was refurbishing the X to swap for my Chevelle. I figure he might've put up to 3k miles on it, and I've just now passed 2k miles (in the 4.5 years I've owned the X) |
Wrong or bad injectors would explain some things.
It might be pretty obvious when you pull that vent line off and gas comes out. To get an idea of how the regulator works put a vacuum pump (or a bit of pressure) on the line to the regulator while you are monitoring the fuel pressure and see how it changes. |
3 questions, for the experienced guys
1) Was the new fuel pump pressure so much greater than the old pump, that it might've blown the diaphragm in the FPR (allowing/forcing excess fuel forward), or is it just a coincidental thing to installing a new pump?
Though I don't believe in GOOD coincidences, my life history is full of BAD ones, usually coming in threes. For instance:
2) After looking at multiple videos about changing a fuel filter/FPR on an E53, is there a way to squeeze under the shield/modify it, so that a crippled old man can do it while laying on plywood in his driveway? i would've already done the job three years ago, but it looked to be a bear, and I waited (perhaps too long). Not only is my fuel system paying the price of the delay, so is my body. 3) I understand how excess fuel could cause surging and rich fuel trims, but where does stumbling/stalling/going into a partial limp mode figure in? and only after a sharp turn or a sharp curve? I can't figure that one out. |
Ever fix your siphon jet and was fuel near 2/4-3/8 tank?
–awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
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On my first test drive following the repair, I put in 9.6 gallons, so the fuel level must've been at 5/8 tank. |
Check the vent line and fuel pressure before you jump to conclusions. If it really is higher than it should be there is a chance that the return line or maybe a syphon jet line got pinched or restricted somehow when you installed the new pump. You'll have the pump out in 5 or 10 min. the second time and then also have a look at while the fuel gauge isn't working. What is with your syphon jet ??
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Actually lower voltage means higher current and is harder on the fuel pump so when the inspector plugged in his scan tool after the car sat idling for a while it might have been the last straw for a pump that was on it's last legs anyway so 'maybe' not so much coincidence. ;)
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When i did wife's fuel filter i didn't remove the under body panel i only removed enough screws/rivets to lower one side. (made it much easier to reattach: it was auto aligned and one side was being held up like a hinged door).
If there's a problem with fuel supply, it can be related to the three hoses that come into the right tank from left. Until the tank is lower than 27L or so that doesn't come into play though since the left tank floods to right at about 27L. If you didn't add fuel since the cornering hiccup, i would open the tank and make sure the level is not at the flood stage and check the siphon side. If it's never been addressed there's a very good chance it's failed. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
I'm "lost in the ozone", so to speak
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I'm not sure if I'm understanding this fuel system (I've got your AWR-fix: e53 Fuel pump / siphon pump details thread, RealOEM, and NewTis up on other Window tabs right now, trying to wrap my head around this weird fuel system). If I added 9.6 gallons (36.34 liters) on the immediate fill-up, does this mean that the left side tank/siphon pump went dry, and is failing now? What should the "flood stage" level be, now that I've only driven 33 miles on a filled tank? i'm trying to formulate a plan of action to diagnose and fix my fuel delivery system, before I tear everything apart, and maybe make things worse. Is it possible that resetting adaptations screwed up driveability, somehow? This could take me awhile...after all, i had been trying for four years to find the reason for lean fuel trims, before the fuel pump failure, and never did. I'd sure like to get back to the old days, with points ignition/mechanical fuel pump/carburetors. I understood all those.... Perhaps I should ask this way... someone once asked for something to be explained to him, like he was a 5 year-old, so I'm just a 5 y.o., too, (plus 70), and in my 5th year of BMW ownership, so I'm slow on the grasping of the split tank operation scheme. I've got other, newer vehicles that still use the conventional in-tank pump set-up, so I'm hoping that if/when I get my X5 back to operating condition, I won't have to go back to school to replace a failed pump, next time. |
You said you added 9.6g but was that all that fit to fill it full? (That was my understanding).
If so you will be way past Flood stage and siphon jet doesn't come into play. I never measured how much fuel just circulates vs. goes to the engine but at idle I'm confident a lot more fuel goes back to the left tank vs. consumed by the engine. The tank has two lobes, the left is much larger and has no electric pump, the right is much smaller and it's where the electric pump is located. The two lobes are connected at the top with a hump in the middle that when enough fuel is consumed they become separated. This happens at ≈ 27L total fuel according to the gauge. At this point there will be about 5L of fuel in the right lobe, 3.6 which does not register on the gauge and 1.4L that does. (the 1.4 can be different on each car and should be learned by getting fuel lower than 1/4 tank and using test six to read the value). When the tank has less than 27L, the fuel supply uses the excess gas returning from the fuel pressure regulator to generate a vacuum at two separate siphon jets at the front and back of the left tank lobe. (2 of the three hoses that go from left to right: the third being to a pressure relief valve in case there's a blockage in the siphon system or any other failure that would put too much pressure on the system) When working properly the siphons will pull fuel from the left to right continuously but it only matters when less than 27L. At that point and less, the siphon jets will keep the right lobe overflowing the center hump and the right side will stay filled to 5L until the left side is bone dry. When the siphon jet fails, it will fall to put enough fuel to the right and the right side will go empty since the pump pushes fuel from right to left but the siphon stops pushing the fuel back to the right. When people "in the know" realize their car is stumbling but happens to be near 1/4 tank, they will take a hard left turn to slosh some fuel over to the right and make haste to a gas station. If you happened to be near 1/4 tank, hard turns can easily cause engine performance oddities as fuel gets shot out of the tank by the pump and tossed back in by a hard left turn. If the fuel level is ≥ 27L the siphon is removed from the equation. Any questions? –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
Thanks Andrew, i might be catching a glimmer of understanding (maybe)- I filled the tank until the pump handle clicked off. The right tank looked to be about 1/2 full when I replaced the fuel pump, so adding 9.6g seems right (I was semi-sure that the tank would be over 1/2 tank, since I NEVER left my vehicles get to 1/4 tank...my wife didn't, but after three times running out of gas, she listened to me...oil pressure gauge inattentiveness cost her a Fiero, though).
"When people "in the know" realize their car is stumbling but happens to be near 1/4 tank, they will take a hard left turn to slosh some fuel over to the right and make haste to a gas station. If you happened to be near 1/4 tank, hard turns can easily cause engine performance oddities as fuel gets shot out of the tank by the pump and tossed back in by a hard left turn. If the fuel level is ≥ 27L the siphon is removed from the equation." The stumbling incidents happened on both (quickly successive) hard left and right curves, so shouldn't the fuel level have already been higher in the right tank following the left turn, but on the next right curve, surely the level wouldn't have fallen too low in just that short distance? I'm sure that I haven't let the fuel level go down under 1/4 tank in only 33 miles since fill-up (figuring as little as 5 miles per gallon, riduculously low, I couldn't have used more than 6.6g, so the tank should've remained at 73% or more full), so the siphon pump shouldn't be of concern, now? I ordered another adapter for my fuel pressure gauge kit (the one I was missing has a bad O-ring, which is too small for me to replace), and a new tank seal gasket (in case I damage one) because I guess I'll have to pull both right and left side tank pump & sender assemblies before I find what's happening, but I'm waiting to see what pressure is at the rail, before I order a filter+FPR. Looking at FCP, RockAuto, and Amazon (probably not the place to get one, from unknown middlemen), i see Bosch, Hengst, Mann, Mahle, and BMW filter assemblies. Listed in price from low to high. Bosch about $50, BMW about $250, but I'm always fiscally-constrained, so BMW is out of the picture. Recommendations? |
If the tank is over 3/8 full it will not be siphon related. I would get a measure of fuel pressure at the rail and make sure it's rock stable. It should not change other than maybe 1/2 to maybe 1 psi drop when you punch the throttle.
New ≠ fixed you could always have a bad new part but over pressure at the pump will just mean more fuel back to the left tank. A constant rich situation usually means MAF sending a bad signal or possibly bad O₂ reporting incorrectly but you will usually see mismatch of banks in that case. When FPR goes bad as [mention]80stech [/mention] mentioned it's very unlikely to over pressure but if the symptoms match you need to confirm/rule out that possibility. There's a vent hose from the FPR which looks like typical FPR that is used to compensate for vacuum at the intake but I've come to understand it's just a vent in case of diaphragm failure that will suck fuel/vapor to the intake. That condition should lead to rich running : both from gas getting into the vent but also if it takes more pressure too open the valve because the diaphragm is letting fuel through. So back to basics: you need to measure the fuel pressure. It should be 50 ±1 but rock stable. When wife's FPR had a failed o-ring the pressure bounced with each injector pulse. The symptom she had was occasional very hard starts. The worst case was the last drive to the shop to fix: took about 50 seconds of total cranking. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
Here's what I'm thinking: installing a brand new fuel pump, changing nothing else, might've over-powered the aged (possibly bad) fuel filter and new-ish Bosch FPR (since I didn't buy it, nor install it, it could possibly be bad or even a counterfeit part?), and the increased prssure from the new pump caused the instantaneous change from lean fuel trims to rich fuel trims. If so, and the fuel pressure readings show more than 50+1 psi (or much more, or even way under...though I think that's hardly likely), then I'll assume that I need another filter +FPR (leaning towards Hengst or Mann).
Do I even need to open up the left tank at this point? The proven-good Siemens MAF hasn't out-of-the-blue gone bad simultaneously, and the O2 sensors, working fine in every test I've made (and working fine in the current series of photos I've taken of my dashboard display, in post #72 of this thread), haven't suddenly gone bad. Coincidence (even my luck with bad incidents coming in threes) doesn't quite occur like that, when only one component was changed. I learned a lesson while racing & modifying my race car, that I should never change more than one thing at a time (from bad experiences doing the opposite). |
You need to know fuel pressure before doing anything else
–awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
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The pre facelift has the regulator separate but I think usually comes together as a unit. I thought they might be interchangeable but looking at some pics the preface filter looks like it is smaller!
When I say "separate" I mean that it fits onto the filter. You'll have changed both with your 06. |
We had 2001s they had the big filler with the FPR attached at the end (but they did come apart) i still have the FPR from wife's when i replaced. I was thinking of cutting it in half to determine exactly how it works and how it might be possible to malfunction In a way that would send extra gas. Theoretically something could go wrong with the spring/diaphragm that makes it take more pressure to open. Could restriction on the output to the left tank cause this?
–awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
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If the pressure is out of spec (which is 50 psi + 3, I think), then I'll replace both as an assembly (Hengst or Mann). Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk |
new fuel prssure readings taken (same as with the old pump, 3 years ago)
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Just came in after testing fuel pump pressure. Rained yesterday, and my rotator cuff injury made using my right arm impossible, until late in the day, so this is all I was able to do. Even so, I had to get the wife to press the accelerator (her first time behind the wheel of the X5).
Attachment 85130 today Attachment 85131 here's results from 5-11-22 Absolutely identical, so where does the change from a smooth running, no misfires or stalls (but with lean fuel trims) engine three years ago (and as late as 2 weeks ago, before the fuel pump failed)), to the smooth running, no misfires (but with stumbles and semi-stalls, and rich fuel trims) engine come from? Only the fuel pump was changed, but the fuel pressure test today shows that it is providing the SAME pressure as the old one did, before it died. Nothing else was touched (mechanically), and only the adaptations were reset. But, though I had reset adaptations on my X twice before, there were no drivability problems, afterwards. Should I pull out the new fuel pump, inspect the triple hoses (which I never touched) and see if one or more isn't sbmerged in gasoline? That's the only possibility I see, that may be causing problems. But, I'm in over my head in this situation. Only difference is |
The fuel pressure looks fine, your gauge is probably reading a few PSI low. If you wanted to do a good test for fuel delivery you need to test under load with gauge taped to the windshield but that's not going help explain why it's running rich now. Did you pull the regulator hose off the boot and check that ?? Why did the PO change the injectors?
It might be a good idea to play around with adding vacuum or pressure to the reg hose like I was saying and watch the fuel trims just to make sure about if rich is rich or rich is compensating for lean. |
I forgot to pull the vacuum hose off of the F-connector, will do that next. No idea why the PO installed new injectors; he may have done it because he was trying to refurb it to the best he could, and he might've thought it was the right thing to do...or he found a set of Bremi's on sale, for cheap. Anyway, they've been running OK for me, including times I tested smooth running values.
I've thought of attaching my hand-held vacuum pump to the F-connector via a 3-way Tee and extra hose, thinking that it might chase the lean problem I had been having. It'd do the same to test for changing the new rich condition. I'll order a set of Tee connectors (every time I get a set, i'll use only one, and lose the remainder, always. |
The handheld vacuum pump is perfect for that, especially if it has a gauge. Poor or cheap injectors can drive you nuts with inconsistent mixtures.
You don't need a tee connector, actually it won't work with a Tee, just pull the hose off, plug the boot side and put the vacuum pump on the hose. You shouldn't need a new fuel pump seal either. |
X5 stalled/set codes while being inspected!
Fuel pressure constant suggest FPR and fuel filler ok.
If vacuum pump on FPR vent would do anything so should running at idle. Realtime O₂ values? (Trims are directly related but it's helpful to see). If you still have the other MAF it does feel like MAF. Have you done the tap test? Also: was the needle solid? I recall fighting trims for a long time i put in cheap O₂ so i could get them fast and it seemed to work at first but then i had trim problems. I ended up getting new Siemen MAF and Bosch O₂ and finally fixed. (just months before deer killed the poor car!) Ps: i would still do the vac/psi test on the vent hose. Maybe wrong type of FPR that changes with vacuum. Honestly i don't know how the injectors work properly without the vacuum feedback. Back to O₂: compare bank one and two; are they very similar as they should be? –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
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The constant fuel pressure readings would indicate to me that there shouldn't be a supply problem, so why is there a momentary stumble/stall exiting hard turns, and lean fuel trims suddenly becoming rich fuel trims? Makes no logical sense to me. Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk |
How slow are you going when it stumbles?
My very first repair on e53 was from a bad CPS. Symptom: stumble when turning into a parking space. That said i don't think that would affect fuel mix. Do you have a scanner that can watch/graph realtime? O₂ sensor graph will be pretty helpful. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
the stumbles happen at different speeds and directions of travel
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And, there is the incident on the first test drive where the transmissin hung in gear going uphill on the first curve mentioned in "3 & 4", above, but without any stumbles on those curves & turns, during that first test drive. And, WTF is a rich condition being reported if there is a fuel cut-off happening (obviously there is one, onhard curves and turns). It got worse after I reset adaptations. I don't remember how I used to record/graph my O2 sensors using Torque Pro, but I did at least once previously, and I've no idea how to do it on my Foxwell. But, watching the realtime display on my dashboard tablet, I can see the O2 sensors working fine. I ordered Tee-fittings from Amazon so I can use a hand-held vacuum pump (I have two: one in a brake bleeder kit, another in a cooling system test kit) to vary the vacuum to the FPR, to see if the fuel pressure to the engine varies. And, i'll have to wait for the wife (out of town) to drive behind me, in case of stalling away from home (so I can tow it home, just in case the system fails entirely, way out in the sticks). This might take awhile to diagnose, so I'll be missing the inspection deadline, by a lot. At what point does the "sudden change in performance and going from lean to rich" lead back to the simple, single act of replacing the fuel pump, and touching nothing else? I'm tempted to let the X5 sit, until I save enough to afford an INDY to repair it (flat-tow expense to the other side of the county, who knows what parts they'll throw at it, and exorbitant technician's fees once there). Sorry for that, but this problem just makes no sense to me. Did the inspection station plugging into my OBD port damage my DME??, and why would even that cause 90 degree turn stumbles?? Oh, I already mentioned that I added a bottle of Cataclean to my fuel two days prior to going for inspection. Possible link to my problem? i'm trying to cover all possibilities, though I doubt that Cataclean could screw up the fuel system ON TURNS, especially since I've been using fuel injector cleaners in increasing amounts, for 4.5 years (any tank or fuel line deposits surely have broken loose long before now). But, if there were deposits knocked loose by the Cataclean, and were sucked up by the siphon pump (partially clogging it) and/or fuel pump (clogging it enough to burn it out, after 20 years of service), how would I clean the system to go back to a normal state? |
You don't need a Tee to put the vacuum pump on.
If it's all on turns then there might be something going on in the tank causing starving and not even related to the rich problem. It just takes a few minutes to take the pump out and have a look at what's going on and get a look at the fuel sender problem while you're there. Having trouble installing the pump increases the chance something went wrong. To take the pump out lift the seat bottom and tilt it ahead, stand it upright in the foot well and there is tons of room, no need to take off seat belts, cut a square of the sound proof material away over the pump if you haven't already, take the cover off, pry off the hose with a bit of care, the nipple has a metal tube but it's still plastic ;) use a small prybar and hammer to tap the retaining ring working a bit at a time on opposite sides. Really shouldn't take long at all. |
sort of a "plan of action" to follow
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Perhaps the base of the pump is out of the deepwell , causing fuel shortages on cornering, or somehow I crushed the intake, or damaged the siphon pump assembly. But none of those thoughts explain a rich condition. I'm going to try graphing the O2 sensors during a drive under load (avoiding the hard turns), before I dive into the fuel pump itself, again. |
Don't use a tee, put the vacuum pump on the regulator line and see what that does, that will rule some things out, but more so give you some insight on how things work with fuel injection vs carburetor. Let us know what you find and I will explain it to you.
If you haven't already check the air filter, it's very easy to forget the basics when you have so much and probably multiple problems going on ;) |
back to the beginning
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I looked up the Google AI answer to the simple question: If a car stumbles or stalls when cornering, after installing a new in-tank fuel pump, what could be the cause?
answer: "Incorrect Installation/Kinked Lines: The act of turning or cornering shifts the fuel in the tank, which can cause issues if the new pump assembly (especially the internal "bucket" or reservoir lines) is not sitting correctly, a fuel line is kinked, or a "sock" filter isn't properly submerged. Action: Recheck the installation in the fuel tank, ensuring all internal lines and the pump assembly are correctly seated and not kinked, and that the fuel pickup is not hitting the tank sides or picking up air on curves." I already had surmised that it was the most likely cause, so the only thing I did on my X today (after moving my wife's Halloween stuff to the shed, and bring in her extensive Xmas decorations (including Santas of every sort and description). Took all day. She's skipping Thanksgiving decor, since it just doesn't yet feel like Fall. Well, anyway, I skipped the vacuum test of the FPR, and checked air box and MAF, instead. Both OK, then un-installed the fuel pump. Once out, I checked the sender for proper operation using a multimeter, and it is OK, too (I'll need to use OBC test 21 to reset the gauge, if I ever put it back on the road. I took a picture looking inside the tank after I removed the pump, and saw the three hoses that I might've been crushing when i did the first installation. I took my time, and made sure I felt the pump drop into the deep well. Attachment 85133 we'll see tomorrow if it made a difference. |
more of the same
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I tested the X on my 10 mile course around the house, then followed that by taking vieos of my dashboard display.
The X never stalled out, but stumbled four times, this time only on right turns and curves. I intentionally over-accelerated and whipped around them, just for maximum effect. The STFTs at some points were as high as -28.5, again, while the LTFTs were between -7.03 and -8.59 (they were both at -8.59 when I started the drive). I took two videos of the display when i first returned to the driveway, and after awhile, I reset the MAF, and took two more. i don't understand the patterns shown by the O2 sensors, but when i graphed (and lost the graph) them on the drive, they looked better. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t1H0O_RWlMctlTFndLeEVYnGmQEWBmOI/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PvfjK_tS9LvAsc0x-y-7ggptoDl432Y3/view?usp=drive_link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WqaZFVs7dAIWNGdcyhTJwZgjeoFwNEY0/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3F...ew?usp=sharing The first video had throttle% on the left, but the other three had RPMS in that space. i hope they'll open for y'all. finally, I took a pic of the emission monitors, and there are still three incomplete (before I reset the MAF). If only one had remained, then I'd take it in for inspection and to heck witth the stumbles. The wife is going out of town tomorrow, so I won't be test driving until she gets back, so i have time to sit, think, and curse my fate. Attachment 85134 |
Tomorrow I'm going to install one of the cheap old $20 MAF sensors, just in case the Siemens MAF went bad, when the inspector plugged his machine into the OBD port. Not likely, but I'm grasping at straws. I see no reason that the new fuel pump makes my X run rich, now.
I'm also looking at the stumble/stall situation as a separate problem. Since fuel pressure is a steady 50 psi when the body is stable and only happens when on curves and corners, then I have to rig up my fuel pressure tester to the windshield so I can read it while maneuvering. My kit doesn't have the 3ft long extension I need, so I'm shopping for one. Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk |
"grasping at straws" but it "feels like" a new ≠ fixed situation and there's a problem with the pump or wiring that is affected by the g-force of the turning. The gauge with the long hose to read while driving will help determine this situation.
Have you done the tap on MAF test? Sometimes a wire or trace gets loose and they will be affected by vibration. Tapping with a screwdriver handle will cause a stumble when they go bad. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
Anyone know where to buy a 3-ft fuel pressure tester hose extension?
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If/when I find an extension hose for my pressure tester, and see that the pressure is dropping on turns, how does that reconcile with running rich all the time, now? Does anyone know where to buy a 3-ft fuel pressure tester hose extension? If, for some reason the new pump is varying flow, dropping the pressure way below 50psi, causing the stumble, any idea how I damaged the pump when first installing it? I found no apparent damage when I pulled the pump out to check the sender (with a multimeter), and loked it over for anything amiss, then carefully re-installed the pump in the deep well, with minimal effort, this time. Should I get a cheap replacement just to see? I just ordered a "free to me" pump, and will try it if necessary (or keep it as an emergency spare, or at least for components). Obviously, I missed the inspection deadline 10-31-2025 (and 7-day grace period), so I'm now aiming for a solution that works well enough just to drive it to the "safety inspection" (sans emissions!) next October. I had a problem with my '09 HHR Panel, back in Dec. '15, when it was due for inspection, and it took me until Nov.'16 to get it inspectable, again. That's one of the reasons why I keep spare vehicles around (plus, different niche usages assigned to each one) |
added problem, won't crank at all now; crap
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First, I did the tap test, with no change, and then reset the faults stored, MAF voltage fault + P0172 and P0175 (rich codes, on my Torque app), then checked my rigged-up my pieced-together fuel pressure tester extension hose for leaks, and went in the house to get my wallet. Upon returning, I turned the key, and no crank! I checked for new codes, and found no faults. Battery is sitting at 12.7v, so that shouldn't be a problem, but I'm going to hook-up my 20amp stable power supply/battery maintainer and let it charge for awhile, before I try anything else. I didn't rest codes with engine running, but did the tap test and fuel pressure leak test with it running, at 14v. Did my EWS lose its' place again, like it did a year ago when I changed batteries? WTF is going on with my X5? |
You have a MAF voltage fault and you have the MAF voltage rigged on a switch right?? Do the lights dim when you are trying to crank? Is the battery in good shape? I think the EWS can cause no-crank or no start depending on what conditions are met but I don't remember exactly how that works. It would have been good to get a bigger and maybe better gauge along with some fuel line hose to splice your adapter to so you could get a more accurate idea of your fuel pressure and easier to read while driving. With a longer hose it would be good to have the proper bleed valve at the gauge but you can probably get away without that.
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EWS no sync i think you get crank. Seems more like ignition switch. You can key on and jumper the starter to crank.
–awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
questions & answers
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X5 stalled/set codes while being inspected!
You have to email foxwell with the right phrase to get them to move your modules.
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mailto:[email protected]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...84eea20896.jpg Example of realtime graph on the 710 –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
If I had the NT710, I could use it as a dashboard monitor...??
I sent a similar question to Foxwell just yesterday, but never received a reply. Last time I sent a message, it was a week or two before I got a response. I sent this:
5.If I Buy A New NT710, Can I Transfer My Paid Software Of NT510 Elite To The New NT710? I already have BMW, GM, and Toyota/Lexus software loaded on it. Can I buy a NT710 without brand-specific software pre-loaded, so I can move the threeprograms I have onto it? And, is there a way to move the software back to the NT510, if the NT710 has a problem? I bought my NT510 Elite from Amazon in 2020, from the Foxwell.us site. Other Foxwells are sold on a second Foxwell site, but, in an earlier thread we bost posted on, both sites have the same phone number. So, perhaps one site will do the software swap, and maybe the other site will not. You never know. It'll be awhile, since my monthly car repair budget has been exceeded, and my CFO will raise holy heck if I buy another scan tool just to work on the broken car. |
Just do one final update on 510 before they swap. You can't update it anymore but it has no internet access to phone home and disable.
Use the email for contact. Monitor spam folder. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
endlessly chasing my tail
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I tried to start it before I hooked up the charger, and still no crank.
The charger said the battery was at 90%, but I put it on Power Supply at 14v, 20amps, before hooking up my Foxwell. Foxwell said it had 10 codes: 4 DME, 4 KOMBI, and 2 EWS: Attachment 85145 all went away after clear codes/restart Attachment 85147 two remain (BD and D7, which is normal) after clear codes/restart Attachment 85146 "01" comes back, after failures to crank, alternating with good starts It seems that my key sometimes needs to be flipped over, and tried again, to crank. I also remember that from several other times, over 4.5 years, but witout codes being set. I keep my ONLY key on an inductive charger on my desk, so I'm sure it isn't the key battery (though it is 4.5 years old now, after I replaced it very soon after I got the X5). Meanwhile, about fuel pressure testing: The tester gauge was left on the windshield for 22 hours before I tried starting the X today. It read 36psi. Attachment 85148 I bled the pressure, then started the engine, and it took about a minute for the needle to rise to 44psi, never reaching 50. I pushed the bleeder button again, got very little fuel from the bypass hose, and looked at the gauge again (after jumping back into the seat). It read ZERO. So, I tried again, with the same results, ZERO psi. Then, I removed the gauge and extension hose from the gauge, and went through another round of key flip/clear codes/finally restarting, before I attached the fuel gauge to the fuel rail, sans extension. Still no pressure. WTF? Today's conclusions: I'm jinxed, hexed, cursed, damned, whatever, after trading my Chevelle (that brought a Poltergeist into my garage, as witnessed by four others). I believed, at first that the Poltergeist left with the Chevelle, but maybe not. I thought we had a truce, at least, but.... More seriously (I hope):
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The EWS has nothing to do with the key battery. So now the engine starts ?? Your fuel gauge problem is almost guaranteed to be be that you have a poor connection at the rail.
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there is an RF ID connection to the key that separate circuit. if the key sometimes works, I’m betting there’s a bad Solder joint on that circuit. It does not use the battery. It uses radio waves only. do you have a second key to use?
–awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
I have 2 remote-only fobs, and the laser-cut bladed shell as backups, but have only the one original key with a chip.
When I cut it open to replace the battery, 4.5 years ago, there was a wire trace that came loose, and I soldered it back on. |
If it's your only RFID key you should do something about that. Valey key from the dealer may be the only cost effective option.
–awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
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I started to make plans to bypass the EWS, if/when my single key becomes unrepairable (probably when I next cut it open). Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk |
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So, to get that key, all i have to do is send my Vin, photo of my title, and they will cut the blade to fit the ignition?
It is only for door and ignition, and I'll continue to use my generic fobs for remote door lock/unlock, like I do now. Right ?? Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk |
X5 stalled/set codes while being inspected!
Pic of title and driver licence. VIN on title of course.
Key will operate car on arrival. No remote noting to pair. When i was in your shoes i bought the new key and then i took old key apart and successfully repaired the solder traces. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
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Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk |
I think i got a follow up email when i ordered mine. I have everybody know if that’s the case or not with you.
–awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
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"To order a key, you will need to visit your nearest BMW dealership and request it in person. This process requires verification of ownership and identification for security purposes." So it looks like the reason they didn't require added proof of ownership is that maybe BMW won't let them make keys online anymore. So, I guess I'll either have to ante up several hundred dollars for a key from a dealership, or do the EWS delete. I replied to them, asking for an explanation, but probably won't get one. Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk |
Surely the dealer can supply the valet key also...?
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I am in DFW and I have a programmer for the keys. You can borrow the thing and do it. It does require you to remove the EWS from the vehicle.
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project on hold for awhile
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Then, multiple Dr's appointments in the first part of December (above and beyond the ones covered by insurance: special eye care, glasses, and possibly shoulder surgery...if I'm lucky, my right shoulder is getting so bad now...), so I need to conserve my cash. And, despite a family agreement years ago, my wife will go hog wild (again) for Christmas spending on her sister's family...we're childless), so no money to spare for keys (if the dealer won't do the valet key). and then there's property taxes Jan1.... It might be February before I can resume work on th X5, if all goes wrong. Quote:
We'll see. |
There's a locksmith that can do this on site for you. I have used his services to cut the keys.
Nice guy, he's in Richardson: https://maps.app.goo.gl/EdwCP8gd51cmcNbk9 |
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If a non-battery-powered valet key will turn on the ignition, then it's the RFID chip inside that's doing the trick. It's passive, being read by the ring antenna on the steering column, so my problem with intermittent starting (cranking) is not a key problem, but lies elsewhere. Perhaps the chip is loose inside the diamond key shell, and sometimes is too far away from the antenna to be detected, or the antenna is starting to fail, or is it the switch itself? There's always a chance that the EWS module is giving up, too. Just overthinking again. Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk |
Remote or valet key both use passive RFID for EWS. That's why un paird or dead bat key will still start the car.
If a trace breaks on the RFID circuit you can have an intermittent situation where the ckt makes contact when twisting the key just right. I just helped replace a key cylinder/switch on a Ford and it came with two new chipped keys and one not chipped. Good thing the non chipped came with. To add the new keys to the DME there's a fairly simple method but it required two coded keys which no longer turn the lock! Solution: use the new non chip key and one at a time old chipped keys held against. Too bad bmw doesn't do similar. The bummer for Ford victims is you will figure out you need two working keys when you lose one and buy a replacement! –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
I've been expecting, & dreading, a key failure for years
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Attachment 85153 EWS key components I did have a trace come loose when I replaced the battery in my key, 4.5 years ago, and the X wouldn't start until I soldered the trace into place. It seem s that I need to cut open my key and re-solder the trace, again, but I'll certainly need a spare "valet" key before I chance it. Attachment 85155 |
Like i mentioned earlier. Def get that vaket key first or work out meeting up with the guy with the programmer.
Once you have a second working key then open up your first key and reflow everything. Three RFID circuit has at least a couple components that are SMD soldered and have solder joints. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a417ab8328.jpg You don't need to drill holes like i did but those circles about 2mm from the corner are exactly where to poke pins through to measure the voltage. The key (pun intended) to figure out if buttons are operating is to watch voltage as you press the buttons. It will drop then recover when you let go. It's a fairly non invasive test. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a0f9c2585c.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9d9f54ba14.jpg If you have a bench power supply you can supply an appropriate amount of current like 20ma https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1979bfb10f.jpg Here's the guts. Notice my oops hole top right where i got the ckt board. I had to repair a trace on the back side. The two pins on the top are 16g steel i used to make alignment pins. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0003d1218a.jpg I suspect this is the RFID ckt. I somehow managed to not take a photo of the back of the board but i think there's an antenna in the pcb trace for the remotes. I think the fine winding coil is for charging and maybe also the RFID antenna. (i don't remember if i ever confirmed it). I reflowed all the solder joints and both my non working keys worked again. Lost one a year later and another year later second stopped working that's when i bought a factory key and fixed my original key again. I only kept original as a spare until the car was "totaled". I only used the beautiful new key and it was so new when the car died i kept the key as a keepsake of my first BMW. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
maybe next week, can I move forward in my repair struggles
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I made a mess cutting open my OEM key 4.5 years ago, and glued it together, only to find out that it wouldn't crank the X5. So, I cut it open a second time, foungd and soldered a wire trace I must've damaged, glued it together again, and it worked. Now, I must repeat the process, but I have a dremel clone (Wen) to use, since my old Dremel quit while working on this key, instead of a dullish utility knife. Attachment 85156 key has seen better days Attachment 85157 I bought this for the upcoming key solder job |
valet key ordered
I called a dealer and they said OK. Went there and paid $90 for the key, which should be there at the dealer next week. I'll have to pick it up, since they advised against shipping it (I agree, refer to my rants in previous threads concerning shipping deliveries to my home).
I'm assuming that the key will have the blade cut, and require no programming...it won't be used to open anything via remote. |
it will work on delivery. It doesn’t have a remote so there’s nothing to pair.
–awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
not looking forward to my return trip into Ft.Worth, to get the key
The visit to the BMW dealer (30 miles, each way) took 2 hours. I had my wife drive me there, because she is familiar with central Ft.Worth and Tarrant County, while I used to be familiar with Dallas and Dallas County.
I repeat, used to be, since I grew up there, and lived in Dallas County for 39 of my 75 years...the other 36 were spent living in SE Tarrant County, and Plano in Collin County, though I drove in & commuted to and through Dallas County (120+ miles a day for the last 22 years before retirement), ever since I was 15, up to age 65.5, when I retired. I made myself a promise not to venture back into that congested area, with the ridiculous traffic, if I could avoid it, and the same is to be said about Ft.Worth traffic, now, as well, though it isn't nearly as bad. I already swore off Austin and San Antonio, traveling down the I-35 mobile parking lot (I spent a lot of time in both, during the 60s-80s), and gave up on Houston in the 70s. Too many cars, too many people. I remember old Texas of the 50s-mid 70s (before the Rust Belt people invaded), when driving was fun, not a chore. But now, driving is a pain. The only bright spot of my trip today to the BMW dealer, was to see all the BMW's lined up (too bad I can't get one). |
a similar thought germinating in my feeble mind
I took my HHR Panel to the November inspection (late, but within the grace period), and the same inspection guy (that I've used for years)asked how was my BMW. I told him that he killed it, hahaha, and please don't kill my HHR.
I told him that I don't (publicly/officially) believe in coincidences, but he triggered (exposed) a series of three things (it's always three bads) wrong that I need to fix before he sees my X5 again. On the same note, when at the tax & registration office, I asked the clerk what the new procedure was to get a temporary registration tag or waiver, so I could drive the X when I resume the repairs. I had to get two 10-day temporary tags so I could test drive my HHR Panel, in 2016, after it had taken me 10 months to find & repair the problems (wasn't trying very hard, since I parked it during my last few weeks before retirement). The clerk said that if it took me until next October to repair the X5, then I could just skip the process, since the X5 would no longer require inspection. Funny, but I had sorta thought of the same thing...time spent saving my money up to buy NEW OEM parts (instead of getting cheap ones, Vine parts, or ones donated to me by friends on the forum), that would surely work as designed, and that even I wouldn't mess up. The countdown begins, at 304 days to go.... |
In another thread, concerning OBD ports, it was suggested that some problems were caused by a partial failure of the ignition switch. Perhaps my X might have the same problem (amongst the growing list of things gone wrong lately).
Since I have had the X, I've had occasional problems with my Foxwell not being able to read all modules when scanning, the key having to be flipped and reinserted before it would crank, and the EWS losing track of my only key...all of which may point to an intermittent problem with the ignition switch. Since mid-October, when my X died (fuel pump), and I have had the additional problems (as listed in the preceding paragraph), I have ordered a valet key, which should be able to crank the X and not get "lost" by the EWS, assuming that it is recognized by the EWS (does the new valet key need to be programmed into memory?? I have not read anything concerning that). The valet key has arrived at the dealership, but I'm really ill and haven't been able to get there, yet, to pickup the key, so maybe it's time to rethink my future steps to fix my X. 1) does the valet key need programming into memory? can my Foxwell NT510 do that? 2) if the valet key has the same intermittent problem as the OEM diamond key, then is the ring antenna suspect, or could it be the ignition switch failing? 3) once the above 2 have been solved, and the valet key works, then I'm cutting the diamond key open, and will resolder the board, replace the battery, and transfer the guts to a key shell I already have (blade is pre-cut), and hopefully it will work like new 4) if new and refurbished keys are working, antenna ring and/or ignition switch have been replaced (or not), and the X cranks every time, again, then 5) pull the new $160 Hella fuel pump, insert the cheaper (but free to me) $70 fuel pump, and see if the X can take sharp corners and curves without fuel starvation. Like I stated in my previous post, this process may take awhile, and perhaps take months, so unfortunately, my X5 has become a true "project car". If my present cold? doesn't kill me, I might be working on it again next week. Wish me luck. Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk |
Someone posted a really good summary of how the EWS works with cranking/starting maybe see if you can find that. I think it's different for the V-8s and might be different for facelift/pre as well so that's something to check into. You should really have went with a full key but I guess you will find out if you need an ignition switch this way as well. If the ignition switch has never been replaced then it won't be wasted money to replace it regardless.
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screwed
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There's no programming needed unless your "wonky" key Salado won't start and EWS out of sync.
They make a non start "wallet key" to get in if you locked key in the car. The valet key has the RFID chip and will start the car out of the box. The diamond remote key would also start the car but would need pairing before remote works. –awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
I've always depended on the kindness of strangers;moreso now that I'm in my dotage
I don't know if i'm forgetting info I probably already read, or not, but I'm perplexed concerning the key situation, after 4.5 years of reading about it..and dreading this exact moment (Senior?).
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I was in the same boat. Get the key then safe to fix diamond
–awr– Using Tapatalk VIP on iPhone |
:thumbup:
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for my 1100th post
In celebration of my 1100th post here, I'd like to thank all who have helped guide me thru our mutual journey into E53-land, and state my hope that perhaps my sharing of my trials, tribulations, and many missteps may have helped others, and kept many from making similar mistakes. I'll say anything I believe might be useful, try anything (automotive) that might work, and report the results of such ventures, so you can see what not to do.
Right now, my X is down, and I've been ill (so's the wife), and the repairs scheduled are on a back-burner, therefore I'm reading and commenting on several forums, just to keep my hand in. |
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Valet key works!
At last, I have a spare ignition/doorlock key. And it works!
Despite both my wife and I feeling very ill, we had to get our food and pet food (50% ratio), and other stuff, so we ventured out for 3 hours yesterday, and retrieved the Valet key I had ordered before Thanksgiving. I just tested the key, and it worked fine, but it doesn't want to slide easily into or out of the door or ignition lock cylinders. I'll probably need to get some emery cloth to make the cut channel smoother, and round-off sharp edges. Now, I can attempt to fix my OEM key, or at least install a new battery, and move the board and chip into the new shell I've had waiting for quite awhile. |
Monthly update, reporting no progress, plus more expenses
from my post on 12/10/25, outlining my planned steps to get my X5 on the road again (undriven since late October...
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First, I got the Valet key, and all I need to fix the OEM key, so steps 1-4 above are almost done. All I need to do is cut open the key and fix whatever I find there. Second, I'm preparing to completely clean my fuel system, by siphoning all gas from the tank, and replacing the possibly-clogged filter & FPR with a new assembly, and maybe reverse-clean the injectors, etc, with an in-home kit. I've got a siphon, and will strain the old gas before re-use (I may have broken my cardinal rule of car repair/improvement...don't make more than one alteration at a time...when I used Cataclean the day before the fuel pump died). Since then, I suspect, the extra-strong solvents may have loosened gunk and debris in the fuel tank (where I've been using Jectron regularly, already), and the now-freed gunk plugged my OEM fuel pump, causing its' death. And after I replaced the pump, the same gunk started to plug up the filter/FPR,and further downline, maybe the injectors, too, since my X has gone from smooth steady running (though always slightly lean), to a truck then has suddenly started stumbling on hard corners and turns, and now has set rich codes, for the first time. Coincidence? I doubt it. I've got a cheap, new fuel pump to use after I siphon and replace the fuel, and a new filter/FPR to use, after I've eliminated the "contaminated" (if it is) fuel. I even bought a cheap electric ratchet to use under the X, since my good arm isn't good anymore. And a mat to lay on, out in the driveway workspace (plywood over sand and gravel). But, back to my health: I got my first new glasses in 11-14 years, so maybe I can see the circuit board on the OEM key, and yesterday went to an Orthopedic surgeon for diagnosis and X-rays of my bad shoulder, followed by an MRI later in the afternoon (arthitic damage to my rotator cuff & collar bone, and the MRI was to better see the torn cuff muscle and the obviously torn/pulled bicep tendon, or whatever he spotted). I see surgery upcoming, which will definitely put a dent in my repairs schedule, and in my healthcare budget. My new goal is to be able to resume the work in March, even if I have to get my wife under the X. P.S. I had to drive my HHR Panel to the MRI center, and I was the last patient seen, so I drove home in the dark, for the first time in pure dark conditions in many years (I've been retired for 10, so I see no reason to drive at night). It was astonishing how little the HHR's standard Halogen bulbs lit up, compared to all the blinding oncoming lights I faced. And, like an idiot, I kept my eyes open in the very bright confines of the MRI tunnel, so my 75 y.o. eyes had trouble adjusting after 30 minutes in the tube. So, as another project to come, I'm going to upgrade the weak Halogen bulbs (Hi/Lo combos) to brighter Halogens, though I'd like LEDs, but the advertisements say they're for off-road (who'll know the difference). If I can use the LEDs on my '09 HHR, then maybe the X5 (and my old '98 and '04 pickups, could benefit from them, too). Anyone with an early E53 (or other early vehicle) convert to LEDs, and what does the law say (especially in Texas)? I'm not going to drive at night again, before I upgrade lights on at least one of my cars/trucks (the wife's '14 Lexus has better lighting, but I'm not allowed to drive it). |
You really should do a fuel proper fuel pressure test before you go replacing a bunch of fuel system parts and fuel. Did you ever check the line from the pressure regulator going into the intake boot F connector ?
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got side-tracked more than once
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I was first hooking up my fuel pressure gauge, using a long hose from the Schrader to the gauge, and then taping it to the windshield, so I could observe the fuel pressure when going around corners, but the gauge failed and/or the Schrader/fuel rail got plugged-up, hence zero fuel pressure and no fuel out the release valve. I bought a new gauge, and decided to amend my repair plan. Haven't tried anything but the Valet key, since. If the vacuum hose to the F-connector has a leak, or is semi-plugged, would that cause a rich fuel trim? I plan to replace the vacuum hose when I replace the filter/FPR. |
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I'm sure I'm mis-thinking this, and I miss the old days when I could install, plumb, and wire a new tank, braided fuel lines, fuel pump, filter, pressure regulator, pressure gauge, carburetor, and fine tune it all in one afternoon. That was a long time ago, in a Galaxy far away.... |
almost ready to begin again
refresher post, from another thread: https://xoutpost.com/1248213-post75.html
As I stated in the last line of the post from the other thread, above, I am feeling semi-OK, and finally went out to the X today, to see how I left it. The ice is gone from the yard/driveway, so I had no excuse (to self), not to at least pop the hood, start it (if able), and check it out. I didn't check the fuel pressure, nor vacuum at the F-connector, but it strated up instantly, and I ran it for about 30 minutes, letting the O2 sensors heat up, and the engine running at operating temperature for half that time (after sitting unused for months). The fuel trims stayed normal (for a change), with the LTFTs at zero, and the STFTs around +/- 1-3. Not at all what I last saw. The MAF at 700rpm read 3.6gm/s to 4.2gm/s, also better than normal. O2 sensors were fine, withthe front sensors on point immediately, while it took 1-20minutes before the rear sensors toact right. Overall, I was pleased. Since there was no hesitation whenever I pressed the accelerator, I'm assuming that the cause for zero pressure at the Schrader valve, last time I was testing, must be due to a restriction in the 5-ft extension hose, and/or the old fuel pressure tester gauge I was using. My follow-up visit with my orthopedic doctor is next Tuesday, so if he doesn't plan any surgery, i'll start my planned course of checking everytime related to fuel, from
Of course, I will have to get a special permit to drive it even for inspction (overdue since Oct.), but at least I have a short 1/2 mile neighborhood loop I can drive for minimalist testing (no traffic in mid-day). At least it will be a start. Maybe I'll just wailt until next Oct, after my X5 gets to be 25 y.o., and get to skip emissions testing altogether. |
another month gone by, with no progress
I've got all the tools and parts I need, to fix my X's fuel problem, but no desire (due to health) to resume the work. The shoulder has intermittent pain (Dr. said there was a 50% chance it would get better in the next few months (as long as I don't aggravate the injury), or I could get surgery (which would be a lot of $$$ out-of-pocket, and I really don't want to do it), so I was waiting for a few days where it felt consistently better, to resume the work.
Then, last Friday, I had a severe attack of Vertigo, and I can barely function, much less crawl under a vehicle. The last time my vertigo was this bad, it lasted a week, so maybe it'll pass soon. |
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