BMWs NO MORE POOR QUALITY CONTROL HASTA LA VISTA BABY!
 

DONE WITH MY X5 TOO!!! JD POWER Rates BMW WORST!
Thankx for posting Craig B/Penguin:

I have a 3.0i and as much as I love a spirited driving dynamics and sitting high up, Im sick of BMW's poor quality control, and Ive racked up 159K miles on mine, so although the engine has been good thats about the only thing I haven't had to pony up for in maintenance, I've had
-window regulators go bad,
-almost every hose already has been replaced,
-CV Boots have cost a fortune almost every other year, it adds up quick,
-been through 3 or 4 batteries, constant battery drain,
Stereo was fried after not driving the car for a couple weeks and turning it on,
-the locking system vacuum locks had to be replaced on two doors,
-tranny makes funny clicking sound already, Im sure any day now it will go
-Alternator went bad fortunately was able to do it myself, dealer wanted $700 HA!! Bastards
-Power Steering Pump line, leaking already
-Control Arms, Ball Joints all worn out thats gonna be pricey if I dont do it myself
-Cup Holder broker, its $400+ just for the part not to mention 2 hours of labor to take apart the center console to replace it
-Valve cover gaskets cracked and leaking
-Cam Sensors went bad,
-O2 sensors goin bad

Other than all that, its been a dream!lol!! This is not a BASH BMW post, they've done that all on their own with their POOR POOR quality control, they spent so much time designing speed and handling performance, they then had to find the cheapest method possible to make the components without cutting into their margins too much, MB hasnt been much better but I think between LEXUS, MB, AUDI and BMW

BMW takes LAST PLACE for sure, JD POWER latest reviews also confirm BMW quality and durability are at the bottom of the barrel of the luxury brands and so did US NEWS.

I really feel for the new buyers here a few will have a perfect ride for the next few years, the rest will be plagued by problems and complaints and lots of bleeps in statements
I will continue to post my repairs to help those here that refuse to overpay for service
best advice find a good indy and become friends hell look out for you, I have one here in Vegas and he always throws little things in at no charge when I can't do certain repairs myself

Are you talking about the 2010 ratings by brand? Because BMW rated three stars (about average) in all categories (overall dependability, powertrain dependability, body/interior, and features/accessories).

Even Acura's overall dependability was only three stars. And Audi was three stars in three categories but only two stars in powertrain reliability. Infiniti, which often ranks very high on Consumer Reports, also rated three stars in 3 categories but 4 stars in powertrain reliability. Lexus was obviously tops in all categories.

z2G where did you get your information, the X5 on JD POWER is a MEASLY 2.5 STARS and I own a 2001 model which was the 2nd year it was made, I have followed since 2002 the changes the model has endured, its very disappointing, I hate to even mention that it might have alot to do with being built in the US, as sad as that sounds, either that or the engineers designing the all the cheap plastic parts got the degrees out of gumball machine. Even if by some miracle BMW had a 3 star reliability rating which it DOES NOT, thats mediocre at best for a $50K + vehicle, my only saving grace is that I have done most of the work my self, with the exception of any service related to ECU or Engine lights, but most BMW owners many of whom are women etc.. take the vehicle in for service, for even something as simple as Exhaust Cam position sensor they charge $300, RAPE !!!!
So really thats the problem I have, if they made higher quality parts, they would fail less and the high luxury prices could be more easily digested, you get what you pay for right, WRONG!!!! US NEWS had even worst ratings then JD POWER, please check your facts bmw has lost alot in my eyes, they still make beautiful cars, that DONT LAST!!!

Maybe you have a bad vehicle or an earlier year that has problems.

My 06 4.8is with 42k miles is actually one of the most reliable vehicles I've ever owned. I came from an ML430 and know what poor quality is, my list for that vehicle was probably 1.5 times as long as yours.

The only issue I've had is the sun roof leaked and the seal was replaced under warranty.

There are big differences from year to year in these vehicles in terms of reliability so I don't agree that all X 5's have poor quality. For a technically sophisticated vehicle, I'd rank this way up at the top of other vehicles - given Toyota/Lexus issues and Mercedes problems I experienced first hand I think the X5 is better than those from my perspective for sure, by a very long way.

FWIW, you list hoses as a BMW quality issue. After 159k miles don't ya think hoses should have been replaced anyway? That isn't a quality issue, that is a normal maintenance procedure. The delta between a more (pedestrian) mainstream vehicle with far less performance and driving enjoyment and the cost of properly maintaining a BMW (of any model) is worth it in my opinion. Although you have a long looking list of items you are incorrect to throw all BMWs or X5's under the bus IMO. You might want to try a Hyundai, they are cheap and do very well in the cost of ownership department, the tradeoff is obviously a big step down in performance. Good luck.

oh ok Rolls,
Im not trying to score any brownie points with my post, you have an 06 with 42k miles thats the problem, get back to me when your closer to 100K and well see if you feel the same way, and yes the hoses were replaced at 138K FYI, so dont even think for one second they could 159K miles before being changed, lol that would be miraculous, When you have to get your CV Boots done and at 42K they should just be starting to crack if not already lets how that warranty works out for you...
They point being for a high end luxury vehicle two major rating firms both have bmw's dropping in Quality control in a big way, not just on the X5 but models across the board, Any car is great the first few years, mine was to, never had to get the engine replaced or tranny rebuilt, but Im just giving you a heads up if you plan on keeping it for more than say 5yrs, you will feel the burn in our wallet, hey but if you can get a new one every few years then more power to you, you wont ever have to worry about reliability, thats why BMW leases so many vehicles, because people dont want to deal with maintenance bud, but please dont try and convince anyone they are the most reliable vehicles JD POWER 2.5 stars probably knows a thing or two and as an owner I can definitely second that 2.5 rating.
But the one area I do give it 5 stars is safety, you feel safe sourrounded by 6000lbs of steel and airbags in every corner

the 01 ML430 has been a great car for my mom...135k on board and besides a $500 transfer case which I replaced myself it has been a dream. But i still prefer my 'problematic' X5.

From experience with these cars I have to say the BMW 4.4 engine is great...but having to replace hoses and radiators and expansion tanks is something that in other cars is unheard of...not to mention the 'cold weather' worries that we get when we leave our cars outside and do some short distance driving. I can live with maintaining that...but things like dead pixels, window regulators, door latches etc little things that you would expect not to break in a BMW...

Except the cheap feel of all other cars' interiors next the the Big 3 German makers. Once you feel the fit and finish quality of MB, BMW, or Audi; everything else has a cheap plastic feel (reminds me of made in china).
Every car maker has issues, the more regulations the government puts on them, the heavier and more advanced the car needs to become. This makes them force stuff to production. If the government would just let the manufacturers duke it out, we would have better more reliable cars due to competition not regulation.

Sorry to pile on...
I purchased my 2003 3.0 on 30 December 2009 with 64400. As part of the deal, they replaced the thermostat and one vacuum hose. Thermostats, they go in EVERY car. I have since then changed the oil (how dare they demand oil changes!) changed brakes pads and rotors and both the cabin and engine air filters (again, they should last for ever in a $50k+ car:D). I also replaced the spark plugs just for good feeling. The most any plug will last in 100K, even then why would you want to wait that long for something so simple to change. I now have 75100 on it already and nothing :nanana:. I'm going to order oil and a filter after it stops raining just to give me something to do on the car :rofl:.
O, and I had to buy new tires :yawn:.
Before this BMW I thought I was a through and through Mercedes guy, I have grown to LOVE this BMW; for no other reason than I can do all this stuff myself. Good luck even touching an E class. Everything must be done at dealership (build quality and attention to detail is amazing though).

To the OP:
Sorry you have had such bad luck...fwiw, our '01 3.0, with 77,000 miles has
been a pleasure to drive, and own. I can count the repairs under warranty
on one hand. I can count the repairs, (non-maintenance), on less than one
hand after warranty expired. You have considerably more mileage, but there
are several very high mileage posters here, with better results.

The "ratings" of any survey version, seldom give BMW high marks, and especially
over time, as repairs on these are not cheap/easy for the general consumer.

Good advice on the Good Indie...I hope your car puts a smile on your face,
on occasion.
GL, mD

I guess i have to join the ndwagon on this..As a first time owner of an x5 i was expecting more mine is the 2005 x5 3.0i with 59,000 i had the car two yrs and i put only14,000 in those two yrs...Man oh Man what a disappointment..If it wasnt for exteneded warranty i would of burned it...first day i bought it was making funny noises under the car took it back fixed no problem..a month later hit one of new york cities major pot holes car shuts off fixed no problem...two months later going to close my sunroof guess what doesnt want to close havent fixed that yet its a been over 7 months..1 month after that new york cities great snow storm getting out of a little snow hill guess what engine making niose my extened warranty company kept the truck for two weeks with no luck of finding the problem...Change water pump,thermotat,belts,pulley,alternator..point f my story for a car thats rarely driven i got the x5 flu...I guess i was waiting for a post like this..OOh and forgot to mention window regulator going already....

You have a good point with the mileage difference between your ride and mine. I do plan on keeping this more than 5 years and I've purchased an extended warranty already to ensure my out of pocket expenses and grief factor are low. My expectations on reliability for a sophisticated performance vehicle is rational - I'm expecting things to break and therefore I will not be surprised. The extended warranty lowers the total cost of ownership and ensures I can get it fixed anywhere around the country, indy or at a BMW dealer. I'm not trying to convince you of anything except that to put all BMWs and X5s into the same lump (reliability/cost of ownership) is incorrect and misleading.

IMO by the way, letting hoses go 138k miles before they are replaced is penny wise and pound foolish. If you treat a vehicle like crap it can end up being a pile of junk. Again, highly sophisticated performance vehicles require diligent attention to maintenance and common sense when it comes to heading off expensive repairs in the future by getting ahead using widely accepted procedures. I'm not trying to bash you but think you might be more happy with a trade off for a vehicle that sacrifices performance for low cost of ownership.

Bottom line is performance costs $$. I don't care if you are in an X5, a street rod or a lighweight full suspension mountain bike.

Hey MD... Did you see me coming???

ANYHOO......

I AM one of those "high mileage posters" ..... I have about 106k on my X and it still going strong. Other than some of the pixels out on the display, ain't nuthin' wrong with it. My wife drives it to work on rainy days and to the beach (about 1100 miles round trip) about once a month, and I don't worry about it's reliability...

I DO worry about hearing her call me on the cell saying... "the constable said "nice X5" as he handed me my well deserved speeding ticket..."

Nothing personal against Japanese/Detroit/Dearborn chariots, I just think that they're a bit ho-hum..... my $.02...

OT...
n2red,
Hope the soakers gave you some time off from chasing fires.
We got back to our Mtn Joint the other night. We need to hook up,
when I catch my breath!
BR, mD

Sunny, the fact that you can read the list which is still missing a few other things such as Water pooling in the rear trunk area, instrument cluster lights failing, I fail to rationalize your thoughts, I know people reading it must look like Im the angry guy who got the lemon... That could'nt be further from the truth, yes I've had my car a long time and it has a measly 160K miles on it, those of you think thats alot of miles, smoking some really good stuff please pass some down to me, so I can enjoy the view with you, lol! For a point of reference we also own a 1994 Mitsubishi Diamante LS and a 2000 Toyota Avalon, both with more miles than my BMW X5, and neither has had remotely the amount of little problems that the beemer has had no switches going out, not cluster going bad, no stereo getting fried, far less batteries than the X5 with the same amount of electronics, other than routine filter changes and a wheel bearing both of those cars combined have still had less basic issues than the X5, and mine is not a lemon..
Thats my point, many X5s are having the same issues, regular wear and tear or not, you pay a huge premium for a QUALITY built vehicle and I did as well, I can't help but feel a bit vexed when I look at all the little things failing with ONLY 160K miles

AGAIN 160K is NOT alot of miles, its sad that many of you think wow your car has only had that many problems with 160K miles..

Actually it is raining here, it isn't sunny if you were responding to me. I think you were trying to be condescending by saying Sonny as in, hey you stupid kid, I'm the adult who knows best. If you are trying to convince people you aren't a bitter grumpy old guy, you are not doing a good job.

We should agree to disagree - Your Toyota Avalon and Mitsubishi are not performance vehicles and therefore don't have the same benefits/costs associated with ownership. They will and should give you miles and miles of $0 driving with IMO milk toast performance. Probably fine cars but have no performance characteristics. Never intended to be more than a living room loveseat with wheels - and that is absolutely ok. If your preference is for limited maintenance where you can run the same oil for tens of thousands of miles, never change filters, hoses etc and they will miraculously still run is paramount, a BMW is not for you, you will never be happy.

Apples and oranges to a BMW. I think you are missing the point, performance vehicles are not the same, maybe you never really had one before and wouldn't know the difference or can't really appreciate it. The benefits are not worth the extra $ to lots of folks or everyone would be driving performance vehicles. Lots of people get confused by thinking all vehicles are the same.

Again, your list looks long. However, not all BMWs are trash like you say and obviously from those who are also commenting, not all X's are trash either. I would also bet that if you took better care of your vehicle you might not have as many issues as you do. Your hose example is an indication along with expectations that they should be like a Toyota or Mitsubishi combined with 160k not being a lot of miles. It is a lot of miles for performance if it isn't maintained well and things will break at a higher rate than a more mainstream vehicle.

It’s going to be increasingly difficult for you to trash BMWs and the X here and find support. Most people on this forum love their vehicles and don’t like to read gross generalizations that are error filled. Maybe you should go to the Toyota forum and make some generalizations about how great ALL Toyotas are and see how much support you get.

X5rolls I copied my post from bimmerfest another member named Sunny, was not referring to you, lol!!! Anyways, Im not grumpy and Im not old, Im 30yrs old and bought it in my early 20s, I like nice cars, and by the way the AVALON and MITSUBSHI both have more Horsepower than my 3.0i so your entire Logic with HIGH PERFORMANCE has just been nullified, other than maybe some handling differences which have nothing to do with electronics and again you make presumptions without reading through things thoroughly, I said the hoses were replaced at 138K, I didnt say I never replaced them before that, that was the last time they were replaced before they went bad at 160K, and I take good care of my X5 thats the only reason its still running Oil Changes,Alternator,POwer Steering hose,Window Regulator I replaced all of those myself, the other two cars have never had a power steering hose leak or the window regulator fail, not sure how my windows are HIGH PERFORMANCE LOL, you need to think through a bit more what you are saying because most of the problems with the car have nothing to do with the handling or engine which you refer to constantly as HIGH PERFORMANCE, its called...
RELIABILITY and DURABILITY!!!

Why did you post this here? My post to you appeared in another forum on a completely different web site. Why did you duplicate your response from there here?

Sunny because I posted the same article on both forums in case some people dont read both quite simply, but I didnt see your post on here after I typed, but its quite comical I already have x5 rolls mad thinking I called him Sunny, lol!

I thought maybe I had bought a lemon when I got my X5. I took it to an Indy in the area for the suspension inactive message and he told me to buy another car. He flat out said the X5 is the biggest piece of crap out there for a performance SUV. He said if I wanted something Euro, get a Mercedes and if US or Japanese is an option, there are many more good SUVs. It's pretty bad when the guy you are paying to fix your car tells you you shouldn't bother fixing it and just get rid of it.

I haven't had a chance to look at any of the newer X5s, but from what I hear, they haven't fixed anything. Just taking the doors off to get to the regulators (both rear needed to be replaced), I felt like this was a poorly built car. 4 of the clips broke off the panel since they're held on with crappy glue, the panel was poorly made and not secured very well. I would have expected at least one more screw. The only saving grace is that it's a pretty easy car to work on. I also find it counter intuitive that they have fluids running right along several computers (sunroof drains, ABS under steering fluid, etc.). I also find it sad that they don't offer very many fixed parts. The window regulators could be fixed by just making the metal tabs a tiny bit bigger so all the stress isn't on the plastic, yet they don't. In my opinion, they want things to fail to help the service industry.

I regret buying the car, but now that I have it, I will make my own engineering design changes whenever something fails. Eventually I will have an indestructible X5. I've been reading these forums and taking preventative measures for anything I can.

I do like the X5, but I would like it a lot more if it had a hint of reliability. The power/handling and the climate control are great. Everything else is mediocre at best, though. I was really surprised at how uncomfortable the seats are on long trips. My MOMO racing seats are more comfortable. I'd like to see if the comfort upgrade seats are any better.

I don't care if you posted this to two web sites. The fact you posted a response to my post from elsewhere here where others cannot see what I originally wrote (as well as my response to you) is stupid. The people reading here have no context for your responses. And, as x5rolls responses shows, can be confusing.

Ok we can drag this on forever so in light of that fact, and the fact that I still have my 2001 X5 up and running albeit with quite a few defective parts, Ill end it with this latest article from BMW regarding the new 2011 X5 Apparently, it has 4000 NEW PARTS, LOL! I find that beyond hilarious I guess the 4000 old parts werent very good or up to par, so hopefully they fixed quite a few things....

BMW Manufacturing Launches New X5


New Model includes 4,000 new parts

Spartanburg, S.C. – March 23, 2010... More dynamic, efficient, and luxurious than ever, the new BMW X5 continues to strengthen its leading position within the four-wheel drive, premium vehicle segment. The new BMW X5 has a fresh new look and features new engines, drive trains, and thousands of new parts. The associates at BMW Manufacturing have been planning the launch of this new model for over 18 months, which involves nearly 4,000 new parts.

Since launching the original BMW X5 in 1999, this new model X5, the fourth generation, features a completely revised range of engines, standard eight-speed automatic transmission and innovative driver assistance systems that ensure the driving pleasure of the new X5 offers even greater fascination. The production launch of this new model occurred as a digital changeover within Plant Spartanburg, meaning that production associates learned new vehicle processes alongside existing processes and parts were seamlessly transferred into the new model X5. This changeover took place over a single weekend, with no ramp-down of the 2010 model on March 19 and no ramp-up of the 2011 model on March 22.

"The new model X5 features exterior design changes including new front and rear bumpers, new front fenders, new headlights and new tail lights. This adaptation significantly enhances the presence of the new X5, making it look fresher and more elegant," said Bobby Hitt, Department Manager for Corporate Affairs, BMW Manufacturing Co. "In spite of significantly improved performance, thanks to BMW EfficientDynamics, fuel consumption and emission levels are lower by up to 10%."

Download the entire newsletter


Posted by BMW of North America
Tags:
Categories: Design & Innovation,Events & Programs,X5 SAV

So, other than all that, how do you like the car? ;)

I was confused on "Sunny"/Sonny, too...:rolleyes:

Thanks for the clarification on Sunny - kinda funny actually. Glad I watched my tone responding.

Again, agree do disagree, now on another point. Your Mitsubishi and Toyota are not performance vehicles regardless of the HP difference to the X5 3.0. Putting a race car engine into an Avalon won't make it a high performance vehicle either. The brakes, transmission, suspension, steering, tires, wheels, driving position and a bunch of other things including a host of electronics are involved here. Moreover, it's the packaging of all these technical & mechanical components/systems that gives a vehicle a performance label. Sorry to tell you but your Toyota and Mitsubishi (albeit nice cars in your view) are among the farthest from performance you can get in late model cars.

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play? :rofl:

Motordavid,
other than that I love it, :-)

Sorry bro, but I have to put my $0.02 in. First and foremost: Learn how to use the period. It is a fantastic punctuation tool.:rolleyes: Seriously, I took one look at your "sentence" above and you lost me about half-way through. You may have some valid points, but they get lost when you ramble on and on without clear and concise statements.

Second, JD Power is NOT an objective resource in terms of ratings. Since they accept advertising, as well as allow their ratings to be used in auto advertising, one needs to view their rating with the proverbial "grain of salt". I'm not saying they lie about everything, but they would have a hard time biting the hand that feeds them. The most objective resource out there, if you were looking to quote one, would be Consumer Reports. They do not "whore out" their publication to advertising. Their revenue comes from subscribers only. And while BMW (on the whole) has not gotten stellar ratings from CR, they have never been in the cellar the way that many Range Rover, Suzuki, and Mercedes models have.

Lastly, most educated folks on here did not purchase their BMWs for "reliability". I wholeheartedly agree that Honda and Toyota are the perennial reliability champions, although Toyota's recent issues with the acceleration and braking may have knocked them down a notch. We'll see how that plays out. I am still a fan of Toyota: they are excellent in terms of knowing what their consumers want and adapting their product lines to specific markets. YOu cannot go wrong with Toyota if your main goal is to go from point A to point B in a calm, relaxed manner. (Again, I am putting aside the current issues with the electronic bugs that seem to be causing a 0.00001% chance accelerating out of control).

Can BMW do a better job in terms of reliability and durability of their components? Yes. Should they pay more attention to detail in terms of quality control? Yes. However, what BMW lacks compared to say Toyota... it makes up for in other areas: handling, steering, braking, curb appeal, and an un-paralleled feeling of being connected to the road. BMWs handle like a gem and they look beautiful doing it. THESE are the reasons folks buy BMW. No other automobiles in this class steer and prance about as tightly and controllably as a BMW. Except perhaps Porsche, but one could argue that Porsche is in a higher class. Anyway: THESE are the reasons folks come back to BMW even after experiencing some maintenance headaches with their previous Bimmers. They are sporty, they are beautiful, and every Bimmer driver knows it.

I disagree that all BMW's are not reliable vehicles.

We've had two 3 series. The first we kept for 7 years and 100k miles. I can count on 1 hand the things that broke beyond normal maintenance on it and those weren't big. 2 window regulators (warranty), water pump (warranty) and then the final stage resister. Otherwise it was just maintenance. The new owners have put about 35,000 miles on it since and it's been nothing but regular oil changes and 1 set of brakes for them.

The 2006 325i we've had has had normal maintenance, a peeling door handle and a cooling leak. Otherwise, 3 1/2 years and 40k later it's still solid and a blast to drive. We were just discussing yesterday how to long keep it and if we needed extended warranty of which we won't buy for it. We plan at least another 3 years if not longer.

Granted I only owned the 2001 X5 for 2 years but it was great; final stage resister, 1 window regulator, brakes and 1 CV boot. The new owners have had 1 thing go wrong on it, sensor of some kind, but not earth shattering. Granted it only has 60,xxx on it now but still good for a nearly 10 year old car.

The 2004 V8 - not as stellar - but I knew going in that there were certain issues after doing my research from this site and bought an extended warranty to deal with that. I've had some major $ repairs (mostly the transmission cost) and had that happened with no warranty I would have driven it off a cliff or sold it. But overall I love this car and I will stay in the BMW family when it's time to replace.

The bottom line here is that choice is a wonderful thing.

The J.D. Power figures you are looking at are about as irrelevant as can be in your situation. You are quoting initial quality ratings, which cover the first 90 days of ownership. This period ended for your car about 3,195 days ago. :rofl:

You should be more interested in their overall dependability data, which at least goes three years into ownership. It lists the 2001 X5 as 3.5 stars.

Even that is dated for a 9 year old car. Not sure why you are looking at J.D. Power data for such an old car anyway.

As written in my post, it was the 2010 JD Power and Associates RELIABILITY REPORT BY BRAND. So, it takes the entire lineup as a whole. And, BMW didn't rate that bad....average. That is what is expected with BMW's.

As far as the 2001 or 2002 X5, those were the FIRST two years of production. If you get any car (doesn't even matter with the manufacturer) that's in the new year of production, you're going to encounter problems. That INCLUDES Hondas and Toyotas. To note though, Consumer Reports rated the 2001 and 2002 X5 below average. Sorry, but that's typical of BMW's....average to below average reliability. Throw in the fact that it's a new production year, it would certainly be below average.

I totally agree. Once we got our X5, it just wasn't the same when I was driving other cars.

Well.....I was climbing my jurassic soap box for this one and then I read Stan's post.......now I am stepping down because he very eloquently summed it up.

I am right on the same page as him!

Rich:thumbup:

+1

i have to agree with the positive replies,ive had my 2006 4.4 for 1 year.i live in northern alberta,and it was -50 this winter for 2 weeks and the x ran flawless.no frozen door locks,no blown valve cover gaskets,nothing.like any other brand some guys happen to get the one built on friday before a long weekend.there are thousands of x5 out there that run great,but remember this a forum that will make you think they all have big problems,thats what its for.

For BMW fanboys the stuff that breaks down is the price to pay for the awesome ride, and the awesome handling through the curvy roads (as if they take their cars to the track every day)...

But for the realists, BMW quality sucks big time.
Not in a million years I will recommend any BMW to anyone, or purchase another one. I miss the BMW of the 80s, the rock solid 1988 325 that racked up 280K miles, and was running like a champ without constant fix-ups...

Good old days.

When BMW decided to make more of their cars, and sell it to the over leveraged US consumer who can mostly afford a BMW by subsidized lease payments or paying with loans that stretch to 5 years, while acting like a millionaire just because they are driving a BMW, BMW as a company stopped caring about quality, and started caring about selling the most amount of cars for the highest profit.

I do not blame BMW for taking such a route, because they as a company lost their core, and there was the credit credit give me more credit, put me in bigger debt customer that thought of driving a BMW as making them "someone" with a "social status" and BMW made the most profit out of it...

In any case...
Only my personal opinion.

I lol'd

A member of our board is saying that BMW X5 is a performance vehicle...
:rofl:


Great marketing department by BMW...
X5 a performance vehicle?

What performance? Driving a person from point A to point B? That can be done by millions of other cars/SUVs out there.

zumbalak..I dont know anyone that drives a BMW and "acts like a millionaire just because they are driving a BMW".. really? Millionaire huh? Pretty sure BMW is at or near the bottom of most millionaires lists of cars to possess and own...

does this mean i can tell all my friends and family that i'm a millionare?compared to other SUV's, the X5 is a performance vehicle. if BMW is such a joke in your eyes, why are u on this site and why do/did you own one?

Compared to which other SUVs X5 is a performance vehicle again?

LOL

Any other SUV will do exactly the same that an X5 can do, while you are in the legal limit of things. All SUV's transport persons or people from point A to point B. X5 does the same thing as well. And honestly X5 is a crappy vehicle off road compared to many other SUV's so its so called performance measure is a moot.

BMW became a joke in my eyes with my X5 experience. Before then it was not. I gave you an example of the all time favorite BMW for me, a 1988 325 with extremely high mileage, where an X5 will dream of reaching without having to spend as much as the car's worth to fixes. Not an X5 but any current BMW will have extremely hard time reaching 200K miles without major money spent for repairs.

And for your fanboyism (just looks like that, as fanboys can not take any criticism of the BMW), I own an X5 thus I am here. In any case even if I did not own one, it would have been none of your business :)

PS: google "30K millionaire"
Acting like one and being one are two different things.
There is a term for that; "poser" :)

Just my humble opinion
But if a person can not pay cash for the car he/she is purchasing comfortably (meaning that writing the check for the car will not cause any issue with his finances) he/she can not actually afford the car...

Again
My opinion.

my business or not, it appears that you fall into the same category as just about all of us do....fanboys. whatever the term, we all seem to like some era of BMW's and have stayed true to the marque. yes, there are plenty more relaible vehicles out there, however many have missed what BMW is able to build into thiers. the feel and drivability are what keeps me coming back. i assume this will be your last newer BMW purchase and that's fine for you. as stated above, i never went into BMW ownership for their reliabilty or status, it was about the experience. good luck in your new car endeavors.

You can't compare a car made in the 80's versus now--most cars now have more technology. And since an X5 is the same as all SUVs like you say---try making an emergency maneuver in a Tahoe at 50 mph in the rain vs. an X5. It's not about transporting--it's the safety and engineering.

zumbalak..where you from man? Let me drop some knowledge on you. 1st BMW is an SAV not an SUV..So duh, yeah offroading isnt its strong suit. 2nd, Since every other SUV can do what an X5 can, why not just go with one of those? Seems to me that you're not too big on X5's, call me crazy..3rd is an X5M not a performance vehicle? what is it then? .....

:iagree:..

First of all if you are driving at 50mph in heavy rain you are not a good driver, and have no clue about driving. At such speeds where the weather can cause accidents, as a driver you should be slowing down and not put yourself or others in your car on the road in danger.

Second of all, in regular rainy days (where it is safe to do 50mph), while doing 50mph you can make an emergency maneuver in a Tahoe just the same way you can in an X5. Both cars will perform as intended without any difference. You will not lose control in both cars.

Cars don't make a person a good driver. Being a good driver has to be learned.

2004 Chevrolet Tahoe Test Drive Review


Drop it like its hot :bustingup

What knowledge are you going to drop me with what kind of experience? That was funny.
Anyways, SAV or SUV it does not matter, SAV is a term that BMW came up with through their marketing department, and fanboys like you have bought it very well...

Offroading is not strong suit. So X5 is not that performance vehicle that some people talk about religiously huh? What does the X5 perform so high compared to other that makes it so special if it can not even do basic offroading.

I own an X5 and I am not crazy on this car. It is not reliable, it is poorly built, and it is a shame BMW became such poor built machines compared to their earlier years.

X5M is a vehicle that you don't own. That is number one. When you own that vehicle and you drive it on the streets it still will not be a performance vehicle at all. That was number two. Once you purchase X5M and take it to the track and drive it as a performance vehicle then we can talk about the whole subject of performance vehicles. That was number three. And number four do not think of taking the X5M to off-roading because you will most likely need a better performing vehicle to pull you off the ditch. And for number five, lastly, X5M is not an E53 model.

:rolleyes: Are you serious buddy? They'll both perform as intended without any difference huh? Tahoe and x5 huh? zumbalak..you now officially have self proclaimed to us that you know absolutely nothing about cars...this case is closed folks..

huh? are you serious? since when do chevys and BMW's have the same stability dynamics?

I'm always amazed when folks complain with such passion
about the vehicle they own. If I felt this way, honestly I would
sell it and buy something I enjoy.

:bustingup

Hey primetime

First of all I am a bit older than being in the "buddy" talk.
Second of all until you bring the scientific proof that a Tahoe will not perform as intended in an emergency maneuver just like X5 would intend to, you have no proof that they will be different.

And knowing nothing about cars?
I have been driving cars as many years as your age or more (looking at your photo), that should be enough to know whats and what nots.

In any case, i have no intention to continue online argument with you. Because I know where it will go to.
Place called NOWHERE.
:bustingup


And the irony of it all with some hint of hypocrisy

This is a post by "primetime"

http://www.xoutpost.com/436995-post1.html

Hey Primetime

How is the X5 performance vehicle treating you? :bustingup

where is YOUR scientific proof that they will respond the SAME in a given situation?

Go rent a Tahoe
And do the same maneuver you do with the X5 at the same specific situation.

Then you will see the proof.

Out of curiosity, do you honestly believe that a Tahoe will handle as well as an X5 in an emergency maneuver?

P.S. I went and checked the Consumer Reports test results:

X5 Emergency handling rating: Above Average. (53.0 mph)
Tahoe Emergency handling rating: Below Average. (46.5 mph)

Braking distance from 60 mph:

X5: 130 ft (dry) 142 ft (wet)
Tahoe: 144 ft (dry) 168 ft (wet)

Etc.

So, you are now changing my words to "heavy" rain. Why don't you just say I said a tornado, too ? Drivers in a normal rain, 50 mph, on a highway--happens all the time, everyday, in America. And when a car swirves in your lane the Tahoe will probably flip--wet or dry. So, a 7,000 lb Tahoe, that's taller and does not have 50/50 weight distribution like the X5 has the same handling characteristics as an X5--do you really believe that ?

Zumbalak..your age huh? ok "buddy" good find on my old post..Little do you know, that after going back and forth and discussing with other members on this site, i decided to pony up and keep the X. where's the hypocrisy? I complained about repairs..I never bad mouthed the company or the X5 model as whole..Now it runs in tip top shape..So again, you still know nothing about cars old man...I'm sorry but if you want me to dig up the proof between the difference of an X5 and tahoe in the rain and their performance you'll be in a world of hurt...Sorry boss, but you're an idiot..and i'm pretty sure most people on this site agree with that statement..You did it to yourself "buddy"...plain and simple..and yeah anytime you wanna josh up the proof on your claims (which will be impossible since a Tahoe doesn't perform nearly as well in the rain) let us know..we'll be watching..

i'm not a scientist and don't feel like rolling a 6000lb hunk of leaking, underpowered steel on it's roof. i'm done. i'll look for you on the rav4 forums champ. good day/

Yes.

It will.

A car does not make a driver a good driver.

It is up to the driver to know what to do and how to do in an emergency maneuver.

If you are putting yourself in such an emergency situation, you are not driving right.

The only exception to that rule is braking and mass.
Chevy Tahoe being a much heavier vehicle than the X5 (about 800lb heavier) will take longer time to come to a stop or slow down the car (about 10ft longer in 60-0 mph braking), the Tahoe owner should know this and drive his car accordingly.

Bahahaha!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl: Someone tell zumbalak to put the Motor Trend from 2004 down.....

Not according to the Consumer Reports tests on a test course with electronic measurement of the performance parameters.


How did you do your comparison?

Show me one Tahoe that flipped in a situation of your example.

It is not swirves btw it is swerves. You need to double check your grammar :)

If you are talking about extreme situations it is not the problem due to car, it is going to be a problem due to the driver. A car does not put a driver in extreme situations rather a driver puts himself in such situations.

PS: I drive in the rain all the time it rains, and never had a situation where a car swerve in my lane, and I had to do an emergency move. Many miles, many years of driving.

BTW "primetime"
A college kid who can not even write in English grammar, but has the "know-it-all" attitude and getting tipsy. I think you should go back to your facebook page and update your status to "can not write in proper English, even though I am a college kid", then when you learn how to speak and write the English language, i will continue the discussion. Until then "peace out", roflma

;)

yes how did you do this zumabalak? We're all so very curious...Since you're the venerable experienced man of the group..enlighten us all. please..We're all dying to know why we bought an X5 instead of the steadfast rock solid Tahoe?!! Lol...:rofl:

Correcting other peoples spelling, while screwing up his own...classic..this gets better and better...:popcorn:

You have lost your mind haha. This is good stuff. So, now you are backtracking your statement. I'm heading home now---I will make sure to practice how to do an emergency manuever.

I don't have a dog in this fight but by acknowledging an exception
to that rule ie braking mass, and weight you have contradicted yourself.

Saying that the Tahoe owner should know this and drive his car
accordingly also acknowledges that there are differences in both
vehicles, one being more responsive than the other.

Hummm.


Back to the subject, how did you do your comparison of the Tahoe vs. X5 in an emergency maneuver? What were your results, as compared to the Consumer Reports quantitative results?

I am seriously interested as to why your results differ from Consumer Reports' results.

Bhahaha!!! I'll be sure to do that buddy..meanwhile since your frantically editing your posts and re-editing again, how about you check your own English first you idiot..

When does this guy learn? Next he's going to tell us that X5's are actually faster while driving in reverse....:rofl:

Penguin..the guy is delusional and possibly mentally handicapped.. Clearly at this point you know his "results" to which we are all so curious about, don't exist or are heavily fabricated..

My dad has a Tahoe, I have an X5... so I have much experience with both as I do all the work on both.

I'll bet you can't guess which one has better accelloration, braking, overall stability at speeds, ability to corner at speeds, more responsive steering feel/ratio, tows heavy trailers better, better driver and passenger comfort, self leveling suspension, HID lighting to see clearly at night without blinding oncoming traffic, dynamic stability control that looks at more angles/forces than the other, ABS controlled 4x4 which allocates power to wheels with most grip in low traction situations vs path of least resistance, etc. etc. etc.

And for safety, which has the best designed crumple zones? Which has the most airbags? Which has seat belt pre-tensioners? Which has airbag system to disconnect battery power in event of accident to prevent electrical fires? Safest with child seats in the back? Which is considered one of the safest vehicles on the road to put your family in?

I can honestly say the Tahoe needed more in repairs within the first year of ownership than the X5, both bought in similar age and mileage.

So to recap, the ONLY thing the tahoe has over the X5 in my family's stable is interior cargo room. And every test done on either vehicle by any reputable car testing type of magazine and/or tv show has put the X5 in a higher class of vehicle than the tahoe and proves it with all the test statistics.

^^ thank you Weasel...And there you have it...Not that any of us ever questioned it..Except for........enough said.

LOL . . . I read this entire thread and it went from how many stars JD Power gave for BMW quality to flipping qualities of the Tahoe vs X5. This thing was seriously hi-jacked.

To the OP, I can see where the X5 might have recieved a lower rating for quality having owned one for the past few years.

To the "fanboys" (not trying to offend, just repeating what I read), I can see your points of view too on why you favor the BMW name.

To zumbalak, like I was told by some forum members . . . life's too short to be unhappy. Do what I am doing . . . see below.


I'm in the middle of dealing away my X for another Lexus strictly for the reason that I don't have the time to devote to the constant repairing of my X (full time job). I've been looking for about 2 months but couldn't find any dealer that would give me anything more than peanuts for my X. I finally found a sucker though and hope to be in my new RX350 by eow. I'm smiling again :D:D:D:D:D and making plans for the weekend that don't involve working on the X for the first time since my X purchase. Life is good again!!!!!

I know where you are coming from zumbalak but you won`t get much empathy from the fanboys .
weird thing is , quality took a slide on most high end cars whilst the crappy cars improved ( there is a word to describe this phenomenon but I can`t remember ).
The posers and 30k millionares are referred to as cocks , they all drive Audis now but will change their colours whenever someone tells them some car is the dogs bollocks , same as they need to have the latest designer wear to pose in .

all that stuff you said about handling , I know what you mean , makes no difference how good or bad a car is if you know how to drive like The Stig or have any degree of skill .
It is depressing to discover the X5 you bought is a piece of shit but most people joining this forum soon realise how to sort the problems and continue to enjoy the car they bought for it`s comfort and safety features .
continue to rant if it makes you feel better .
I`m sure BMW read some of this stuff and I like to see them getting deserved criticism .

ftgambit,

did you come on this forum just to bash the BMW X5, youre in the wrong place dude.

try the audi forum.

and btw, my mom and i both have an X5, great car, yes i agree there are some maintenance issues, but the performance outweights the little problems

my family also used to have a Mercedes ML320, that thing was a piece of CRAP!. so by saying BMW is worse than mercedes, you are way off

:yikes: and repoman sums it all up

found some sucker to take the X5 off his hands .:wow:

Eloquently put amacman . . . I always enjoyed reading your posts.:kissass:

Edit: I was meaning to quote your earlier post but for some reason the quote disappeared.

This one.

I nearly bought a Lexus RX300 because it`s reasonably comfortable and has loads of wee storage areas . I always try to look at older versions for corrosion , oil leaks , wear and tear before buying a newish one , decided to buy a Amazon , soon got rid of it and bought the X5 just because of the way it drives .

Well said amacman.


I wish BMW cared, but doubt they do. I do hope in the future they will be putting more quality controls to their vehicle manufacturing process and make cars that are reliable just like their glory years of 1980s and very early 1990s. I am actually looking to sell the POS and move to something else, there are great deals on many cars right now, need to find a person who will be paying the right price for the POS.

Track days already started and I am spending most of my weekends enjoying the life on the track, while driving an actual performance vehicle.

(Unlike the dumbass the idiot of the Kansas village who can not even pronounce simple English words, while attending college. Sucks for the future of this country, we are having college graduates who are douchebags and total idiots). Yes "primetime" I am calling you names, because your dumbass was the first one to attack me personally.)
'primetime' go and drink your milk, study your classes, and do not try to attack the other party that you are trying to argue with, by using insults. That shows a lack of intellect and lack of knowledge. Also go and study some English grammar, sucks to be a college student who can not speak English. :bustingup

I love the way the X drives too and that is probably why I bought mine too but it has been so difficult for me to keep the hood closed. Good advise on the Lexus. I've been doing some serious homework to make sure I get a super reliable vehicle this time and the RX350 appears to be it. Wish me good luck!

Why does your pussy hurt so much?! Quit your bitching already. We get it, you can't afford nor are you savvy enough for a BMW. Get out of here and go get your Obama Traverse and be happy:popcorn:

I agree that BMW reliability and quality control is well below where it should be; however, I still do not understand your contention that the X5 handles no better than a Tahoe.

good luck with the Lexus
I would have sold my X5 to some sucker if I had not found this forum where one can get help with almost any issue from the great people .
your X has 55k miles only , and you have had problems , that is a worry .
I bought a 4.4i sport , 44k miles , needing pixels , 2 door actuators ,speed sensor , valley pan , entire crankcase venting and entire vacuum systems , one valve cover gasket , rear subframe bushes ,all doors leaking water , all tyres split sidewalls .
This was an Approved Used Car from a BMW dealer , does not bode well if this is the type of shit approved by BMW .
I let my guard down on that one because I thought I could trust a BMW AUC , how wrong I was .

All Lexus-es are beautifully made and impeccably engineered to achieve unmatched levels of dullness:nanana:. Really man, an RX? That's the beetle of SUVs. What I mean by that is... they are for women and ...

:popcorn: you might never understand what he means .
in my teenage years I happened to mention to some friend of a friend that my Honda 250cc single cylinder bike could beat a Honda 400/4 cylinder on the twisty roads , the friend of a friend asked if I would like a cup of tea whilst I waited for a friend of his to arrive on his 400/4 to challenge my statement .
I agreed and 15 minutes later this (cock ) who would later become a multiple British and European sports bike champion showed up , looking me over in a condescending manner .
so the start / finish point was agreed and it was agreed that no suicidal riding would take place but that rule was soon forgotten by the (cock ) when he realised he was never going to beat me and despite him passing me in a suicidal fashion repeatedly after I had safely passed him , I still won .:thumbup:

::rofl: LMAO

I couldn't agree with you more. :thumbup:

This thread is complete garbage. It started out with someone trying to compare J.D. Power initial quality rankings with their 9 year old vehicle and then zumbalak went all Simple Jack on us...

Really....

Please find me another SUV/SAV that performs even near my X5M doing exactly what it was designed to do.

I'll trade my M and buy it...

But let me save you some time.... it's not going to happen because it doesn't exist.

Thanks Weasel for a voice of sanity amongst the rantings of madmen. Please, someone, anyone, close the gates of the asylum before they all get out...

Ya, this thread is wrecked and needs to die. :(

This thread was wrecked by the first post.

Oh I don't know about slamming the thread.
Sometime the amusing entertainment is worth it!!!:thumbup:

I fully agree! I love the trainwreck threads on here... just can't look away! Usually I have to go to the politics forum to get this kind of entertainment.

I was thinking the same thing last night. It was so entertaining to read these, my dinner plate was cold by the time I got through all 8 pages :D
O and first thing this morning I had to check out the new drama.

Anyone for a beer...But we have to admit we love to read this...At the end of the day we all have the BMW emblem..Wether its worth 100k or 10k...thats what we bought thats what we got...

Fair enough. You going new or pre-owned? Have you looked at the RAV4 V6 version? Toyota reliability PLUS your 0-to-60 will beat both its RX350 cousin and the E53 4.4-liter V8! (6.4 seconds). Consumer Reports rated it very highly. Unless you are obsessed on having the Lexus "L" badge (it's still a Toyota in my book), I would just pimp out a RAV4 V6 and enjoy the fast ride.

I couldn't imagine going from an X5 to an RX, probably the same feeling fighter jet pilots get when they have to drive Hummers around base.

:iagree: I can't even imagine shopping the two together. If you drive a Lexus and a BMW back-to-back and you can't tell a difference as far as dynamics are concerned, you probably don't need to buy the Bimmer anyway.

all depends on how often you drive in such a way as to appreciate the X5 dynamics .
I have to say though , it is comforting to know the dynamic agility is there if you need to make evasive manoeuvres .

my neighbour flew F4 phantoms . now drives a 757 and thinks it is great fun .

Let me rephrase that then. If you can't tell the difference by just driving normally on any road then you don't need the Bimmer.

Lexus = rolling couch.

so the porsche cayenne is no good then

I think what repoman is saying is he would prefer to sit in his couch instead of fixing his X5 every week .

Yeah, probably and there isn't anything wrong with that. It would be boring if everyone liked/wanted the same things. Just pointing out that their is a significant difference between the two. Even in everyday conditions.

So is that inference or a flat out straw man :confused:

Hey guys I appreciate all the posts from my original rant about poor quality, I need some help, my air suspension is all the way up I posted a new thread if anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it, Im beyond disapointed but right now buying a newer better car isnt in the cards so I have to try and fix as much as I can on my own, just did the rear window regulator saved about $400 thanks to the posts here, Im soo mad at BMW I truly wish I had the ability to take my 2001 3.0i baby and throw her right into headquarters CEOs office and make that SOB fix every damn defect the car has with regard to cheap parts that break all the time, in the meantime I cant drive my car like so anyone please HELP!!!

You can still drive it it'll just be a little bumpy

:wow: You just spend days dogging BMW and fighting with everyone on this website, then ask for advice from the very same people :rolleyes:. Just man up and get rid of it!

it`s covered 159000 miles so I reckon it`s not so bad for maintenance .

:rofl:

1stE53,
WTF is your point clown, first of all I spend days dogging BMW quality not the people on this thread, people got into it with me, because I made negative comments about BMW overall, so thats their problem, I posted facts of failed components so anyone researching buying a used BMW and there are many, would know ahead of time what lies ahead, and the what does manning up have to do with my car running, if you read ALL of my posts you would see that I clearly stated that the only reason I used to come in these forums was to get DIY info to fix all THE LOUSY CRAP That kept braking in my car, and like many owners, theres alot of things that breakdown period!!!
So do me a favor if you know how to fix the Self Leveling Suspension (AIR RIDE) etc... and have the steps to replace the sensors then post the damn INFO, and contribute something useful to this thread, if you dont, dont wast our time any longer
Thank you have a nice day, and if I dont see ya have a good afternoon and a goodnight!

Good luck.

Here we go again.
Toooo funny..........:bustingup:bustingup:bustingup
Keep it coming, Keep it coming!!!!!!!

Look at the rear ride level sensors to make sure they're fully intact and linked to the control arms. If they are intact it may need the compressor/valving unit... but it would be worth it to pay the hour diagnosis fee at the dealer before spending money on parts.

Sure it's good, for a second choice…

IMHO the X has it beat in comfort, power and handling.

Nice story. Perhaps you shouldn't have given up on your motorcycle riding. If this "cock" when on to become "a multiple British and European sports bike champion" you could have become Scotland's answer to Valentino Rossi. I think you have missed your calling...

well I never really felt the need to impress people with my ability.
some of the geezer crowd did try to encourage me to take up racing but I never did enjoy parting company with the bike and sliding along the tarmac on my butt .
happens frequently to the best of them .
that cock has some serious problems with his attitude though and so do some of the other champion riders .
the cock had to resort to passing me by taking the wrong side of the road on blind corners on humps , he was airborne a few times .
I preferred to ride along at my own pace even if that was at the limit sometimes .:cool:

Why so modest? You were obviously a champion in the making...

I agree . . . a woman's car and that is who will be driving it . . . my wife! She took my Lexus GS400 from me and has been making me drive the X after the second time it left her stranded on the side of the road with our child. Now I'm getting my Lexus back and she is getting her own. Now my Lexus GS400 . . . hardly a girl's car. With over 150K miles, it is still the best car I own.

Nowhere near as obsessed as some other brand car owners are about their vehicles. I really don't care if it is a RAV4 or an RX350. My wife likes the luxury and I like reliability so the obvious compromise would be a Lexus. This is a no lose deal for me. I get my Lexus GS back and get my weekends back (no more weekends spent under the hood of the X). Taking delivery tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Oh happy days!

BINGO!:thumbup:

Once again amacman, your brilliance shines through!

I wouldn't even buy a Lexota if I were 95 years old...unless I needed a couch in my garage for some reason.

Or an excuse to floor it into something

I understand your point of view and I think it's great that you love your Bimmer. Having owned products from both makers before, the decision to go back to "Lexota" was very easy for me. I'm not saying our Bimmers are a bad vehicle, in fact they handle better than a Lexota and look better to me too. I'm just not into the weekly repairs that I've had to make while owning it. If it had a hint of reliability I would be the biggest BMW fanboy of all. I've learned here from the forum and from my own ownership experience that reliability is not a really a priority at BMW but only "driving experience." Reliability is very important to me and is the main reason I'm switching back. I just need that feeling that when I send my wife and child out on the Houston streets that the vehicle will not fail. My X has stranded them twice . . . not cool.

I'm taking delivery tomorrow and trading the X. I didn't even drive the X today for fear that something might break and would have to be towed to the dealership. Better safe than sorry right?

Wow FSETH, just noticed you really have a lot of posts . . . that's awesome!

Yup. Everyone has their own particular weighting to the factors that are important to them, and no one's particular weighting is "better" than anyone else's, e.g., I have no doubt a Ferrari would outperform a BMW in the handling department, but even if I had money to burn, I myself wouldn't want it as a daily driver over a BMW.

That just means I spend too much time on this site...

In all seriousness, good luck with the new car. I hope you got the newest model with the fewest miles possible because you are going from something that you have done a lot of work on to a completely unknown vehicle unless you also get detailed records. Some cars go through growing pains and you may have fixed most of the issues you were going to have on the X.

I feel pretty good about my wife driving our X5 daily, but I do cringe a little when people start playing with the window buttons. :D