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Titz new to you M5, Wally!
And, here's a toast to your faithful X pulling a half a mil! :thumbup:
GL, mD

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL (Post 818267)

I've heard the S85 driven aggressively, and it sounds incredible. I also think the engine is a technical marvel.

I don't think it is fair to say that it is a detuned P83 or P84 though.

They are both V10 engines, naturally aspirated. They were both built by BMW. That seems to be where the similarities end. BMW used the phrase "inspired by our F1 racing program" when referring to the S85. There are a lot of differences. 8000 rpm vs 19,000 rpm. 4000 rpm idle for the racing engine. 5000 individual parts in the P84. Different engine management systems. Different valve actuation. Different crankshafts.

BMW was asked for examples of how what they learned in racing in F1 filtered down to production models. I think that some things did filter down. Two examples that they used were the faster processors required for the racing engine management system (that processor went into the new Nav system) and the sand casting method used for the racing engine blocks (that process was used for the oil sumps on the M series models, and the manifold on the diesel V8 engines).

Whatever the limited connection between the P84 and S85, though, the S85 is an incredible engine in its own right.

Thanks JCL,

If De-tuned is 507hp then I would hate to see what happens when it's tuned. For the most part I have only been using the relaxed about town mode with 400hp and that's just nuts. Its has so much power on tap that you really can't open it up unless you are out in the country. Otherwise you are in excess of 100mph. But it can be a very calm and comfortable town car. Have you seen the psi they are running in the vanos system. I think it is in excess of 1600psi....it's some crazy number.

Its a marvel of engineering to say the least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by motordavid (Post 818323)

Titz new to you M5, Wally!
And, here's a toast to your faithful X pulling a half a mil! :thumbup:
GL, mD

Thanks David, 500,000 is where I have my eyes set on for the X. And I don't see why we can't do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallyx5 (Post 818326)

My point was that it isn't detuned, the F1 engine is completely different. They both have 10 cylinders, that is the only similarity. I think BMW wanted a V10 in the M5 for marketing reasons, so they could suggest a parallel to the V10 used in F1. They don't even use the same fuel. And the F1 engine is a 3.0 litre. But they were both built by BMW.

It is like saying that the M3 uses a V8, just like F1 engines from 2006 (which again, were completely different than production engines)

It doesn't take away at all from the fact that the S85 is an amazing engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinan e39 (Post 818313)

J,

Very fair point. I think a better way for me to put it is that the V-10 was originally built for the F1 scene and found it's way into a production car. I just wish they would have boosted the motor like G-Power.

The V-10 cylinder arrangement was used in F1, and found its way into production vehicles, fully agree. But it was also used in Dodge pickup trucks three years earlier, as the first modern V10. So the parent of the S85 looks more like a pickup truck than a Formula car, much as it pains me to say it.

Hey now, that V10 in the dodge pickup came straight from the Viper... so it was at least a sports car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weasel (Post 818353)

Hey now, that V10 in the dodge pickup came straight from the Viper... so it was at least a sports car.

Other way around. The Dodge V8 dating back decades (318, 340, 360, etc) had two more cylinders added and became an iron block truck V10.

It was then recast in aluminum for the Viper. But the Viper got a pickup truck engine, the RAM didn't get a sports car engine.

What is the cost of the tranny rebuild??

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallyx5 (Post 818250)

Thanks Rich, the X will be getting the trany installed on Monday or Tuesday and then she will be coming home. I miss her, it's funny but I really like my X5. The rebuild shop said all of my clutches were gone and the valve body needed to be rebuilt. But they Dyno tested it today and she is good to go. I will give her a good thrashing when she get back.

I'm at just under 254,000 miles and my transmission seems to run perfectly. However a tranny going may have me "putting it to sleep"....... What is the cost if you don't mind sharing to have it rebuilt??

Good luck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL (Post 818355)

I thought the viper came out with the V10 (1992) two years before the trucks got the V10 (1994)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weasel (Post 818400)

I thought the viper came out with the V10 (1992) two years before the trucks got the V10 (1994)?

That sounds right. It was still developed for the pickup truck, and was built and tested with an iron block. When they put it in the Viper it was too heavy, so they went to an aluminum block. They didn't bother changing other truck features, like the two valves per cylinder. I recall all the discussion at the time it was introduced, how it came from the truck block.

Not as bad as Triumph, which built a sports car out of a tractor engine, or Lamborghini, a tractor company that built a sports car to spite Ferrari.