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Blown Turbo in my 04
Not the best way to start the morning but I took the car into my local mechanics today having noticed a bit of exhaust smoke on the drivers side engine bay.
They took it out for a test drive and came back with smoke bellowing from exhaust due to a blown turbo. The engine oil is now off the bottom of the dipstick and I checked and topped it up to max less than a week ago! Has anyone got a rough guide as to costs in fixing this and if this could turn into a massive bill and job? Oh dear!! |
Why don't you look for a used turbo or a complete engine - used turbo would cost you couple of hundreds euro/pounds and the complete good M57 engine form a car with service book costs like 1000 Euro. Engine Installation would cost 500 Euro + lubricants.
By the way - if you own a 930 Turbo you shouldn't have any fears about fixing costs of X5 - they're just a baby toys, compared to the maintenance of an old 911 turbo. |
I like your logic Nick!
Well, I heard back from the local garage (not the Stealers) and the cost of a new Turbo, oil, filter etc comes in at £1300. I did plan on selling the car in a few months but this has had to go and happen now, typical!!! :( I decided to opt for brand new kit and gave them the go ahead only to have a call a bit later in the day informing me that the exhaust manifold (which is the reason it actually went in to have checked) has also found to have 3 small cracks in it. It isn't the cast iron one. After removal they carried out some braising on the cracked manifold but rang to tell me it wont go back on and appears to be 5mm out from the studs or holes etc. They proceeded to quote another £437 for a new manifold. I appreciate the manifold gets hot all day long but should it really not go back on ok? This is getting into serious cash now and I wonder if the turbo had just given up or whether the X5 breather filter was blocked up and needed changing. Of course maybe the EGR is choked up to. We may as well go and add another load of possibles. I wonder if the cat's are any good now too? All in all its been a bad day for me and the X. I think its time to fix the bloody thing and kick off my drive. Having said that I've loved driving it and its been pretty good in the 3 odd years I've owned it. Thanks for any input. |
mate if your turbo was dead the car would be a dog to drive and you would have a huge black cloud following you, if the seals are gone its not a big deal to rebuild, however if your manifold is cracked you would get smoke around your motor and you should be able to hear the exhaust leak.
sounds like your mechanic is not up to speed and you may want to get a second opinion. as for why they cant get the manifold back on now that they have brazed it , the manifold has distorted during welding the process, it should have been bolted to a template BEFORE welding |
Get a new mechanic!!!!! - You're paying for their experimentation
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Now with new turbo and manifold I personally would keep the X for longer - otherwise the new owner will just use for nothing what you have paid and spent time on. 3.0d is great for Europe.
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I've just had the call to tell me the manifold is not going back on and they have rolled the car out into the car park bay's.
@bigwave2255 The exhaust manifold I assumed had cracked as I had fumes on the drivers side of the engine. If I revved the engine plumes of smoke would come up. The turbo put out such a huge cloud of white smoke that when it was driven back past the garage we thought it was snowing! When it was back in the workshop you couldnt see through the smoke. Here's a youtube vid of just how mine looked when I saw it come in. BMW X5 Engine Problems - YouTube Yes, you are probably right in that the braizing may have caused distortion. I need to find a new manifold now thats for sure. I either go with the same silvery looking thing or go for the cast iron one. I dont plan on having the car much longer anyway so, the cheapest option might be best for me. Does anyone have any part numbers or recommendations for the manifold please? Car was registered in late december 2004, 3.0D Sport, M57N engine I believe. God help me. |
Hey Nick,
The fuel econonmy I am now having to do is making driving it non economical unfortunately. Thanks to my ex moving away with my boy , grrr! :( Chris |
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Sorry to hear about your problem. You havent told us the mileage on your X5??Also,where in the UK are you? YoU need a turbo specialist house that will take your turbo in exchange for a reconditioned one.Someone like BMW Turbocharger Sales - Exchange Turbo Charger - turboactive.com Or get one off Ebay with a 12 month garantee,like here Turbo Turbocharger Turbocompressori GARRETT BMW X5 E53 3,0D 160 KW 218 PS | eBay Bigwave ,is spot on with his advice,looks like the seals have gone on the turbo from the white smoke you mentioned but hope yours isnt like the one on the video your posted as that X5 was running on its own oil due to oil breather blocked maybe,and only stopped running when the engine blew up! The exhaust manifold cracking is a common problem ,in all 3.0Ds ,as its not iron and as Bigwave said,your "mechanic" should have bolted it ,before welding and it wouldnt have expanded with the heat, hence the reason why he cant get it back on... You could have saved some money ,if it was welded properly and it would have lasted a few months or so ,until you sold the car ,now you need to get a replacement!You can try to get one at a breakers yard but with a return guarantee if its cracked! The OE parts numbers are Manifold...11627 788422 Turbo......11657 791046 |
I purchased a brand new cast iron manifold from an Ebay seller and have given it to the garage for fitting. They are also changing the breather filter / housing on the top of the engine. I think the engine is ok and was told the cats may have survived but they are sealed so no way of actually clearing any excess oil. The turbo according to them was part exchanged to keep the cost down and would have cost another £400 if not with BMW.
Also mentioned were pre-heaters which smelt a bit??!! The car has 94k on the clock by the way and had a full service including fuel filter etc and BMW about 18 months ago. When I get the final bill I'll post here again! It was due an oil service but I guess after this I can say its had an oil change and all sorts carried out. |
your kidding right??? the last service was 18 months ago!!!!!!!
no wonder your turbo failed, minimum excluding mileage done should be 12 months, and in my personal view that is still far to long, my car has done 160,000 km so similar mileage to you, i have it serviced EVERY 10,000 km thats every 6000 miles, engine oil and filter plus general check over. i had the trans, transfer case and both diff oils changed at 100,000 km and will have it done again at 200,000. if you want your diesel motor to last KEEP clean oil in it. BMW are totally joking with there stupid service indicator light system. and are only interested in the first owner on the vehicle, once its out of waranty there is no reason for them to want the vehicle to last, cuts down on sales. |
Really? Is 18 months really too long between service? My service indicator still has one red and one yellow light on (I think) and only recently I have the 'oil service' wording appear. I do understand what you are saying though about service lights! Until a year ago I covered around 2,500 miles per year but now cover around 7,500 per year. I realise that oil does get old and its qualities break down but never thought the time frame would be that critical to blow a turbo.
I'm still waiting to hear back from the garage! |
If you use a good brand 5w 30 fully synthetic engine oil ,then you should be looking at minimum 10,000 miles oil changes or 2 years ,which ever comes first!
You can of course ,change your oil when ever you like ,at 6000 miles ,like Bigwave does,but thats just throwing money down the drain!! Your blown turbo wasnt because of your "late" oil change,unless your previous oil change was with 15 w 40 oil and 30,000 miles or so !!! I must say that 90,000 miles is a bit early for them to blow ,unless something unusual happened!Get your mechanic to check the oil feed line to the turbo to make sure its not blocked and check the air filter pipe to the turbo to see if it has any "shavings" that could have been sucked up the turbo!This is something that happened to a member here,as there was some debris in this pipe ,which resulted in blowing more than one turbo.In either case ,since you have loads of smoke from your exhaust ,your turbine/compressor will be broken.Usually ,what happens is the turbine ends up stuck in the cat and the compressor will have shed aluminiumj shavings to your air filter pipe due to it spinning freely against the turbo inlet. Get your mechanic to check the exhaust for debris . When turbo blows,it will also push a lot of oil to your intercooler and your mechanic will need to clean it all out.This is very important so as to avoid the engine running on its own oil,just like that youtube video you posted. Good luck.Hope it all works nicely and you get your X5 back on the road ,as good as new:) |
mate the reason i change my oil at 10,000km (6,000miles) is fairly simple and you could say throwing money away, however a long time ago i was told that if you want a diesel motor to last then change the oil frequently, now i dont know if this is true or not, but if i way up the costs of the extra oil changes against a potential turbo or even replacement motor ( please remember i,m in australia, and we pay about three time what you do for parts etc) then i call it cheap insurance.
i know with my petrol engined boat that it gets an oil and filter change once a year no matter how few hours it does, generally speaking some where between 30 and 50 hours a year, so if you work that out at driving flat out in low gear up a hill at 50 mph thats 1500 mile only, so running your car for 15,000 to 20,000 km between oil changes to me seems like inviting trouble anyway thats my reasoning only, obviously others may have differing opinions and they are entitled to them, however i very much doubt that BMW cares what you do with it once the warranty has expired |
I got the car back now but the power delivery is completely different!!
I'm not heavy on the accelerator at all but when I drove away from the garage I noticed that whereas the power used to be pretty constant it isn't now. Prior to the blown turbo I would hear the turbo spin up and if I put my foot down on the pedal the boost was available and away I went. Now though, if I accelerate to around 2000rpm in order to get past this rpm I need to definitely apply the foot to the pedal. By this I mean around 3/4 of the way to the floor just for the rpm to increase. The turbo will spin up and then suddenly I feel the boost and the rpm will increase by 1000 plus and I shoot off! Until I get to feel the boost I can only describe this as being like going up a hill in a 1.0L engined car. It's like I'm shouting 'come on, come'on' and feeling like I need to change to a better gear. My point is that although the turbo does kick in it certainly feels like I have to press the accelerator down much further than before and if I drive along steadily around 2000rpm and just step on the accelerator slightly I'm making no difference at all. It all really happens when I've stuffed the accelerator down by 3/4's. (I'm sure it didn't feel like this at 2000rpm before it went in!). I at least felt a more power through the revs than now. Any ideas? I'm going to take it back to the garage and see what they think. Maybe this is how it should be and mine was over boosting or something in the past. Fuel consumption is pretty much as before with less rear end smoke :) |
they probably disconnected the battery and maybe it has to relearn your driving style,
can you take it out to a quite area and given it a good hard run, maybe that will sort it out |
You may well be right and I will endeavour to find a quite stretch of road. The turbo kicking in made me smile though. Of course that feeling is nothing compared to my old Porsche Turbo which just made me feel like a rocket pilot and always put a big grin on my face :)
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Truth is ,here at a Bmw dealer ,we replace the engine oil 15,000-20,000 kms within the standard warranty period and even extended 5 year period and unheard of a turbo/engine failure !Now if Bmw thought the turbo was going to blow under the warranty period ,wouldnt they instruct dealers to change the oil at shorter intervals?We use the recommended 5w 30 for al turbo Diesel Bmws and just the cost of the 6.5 / 7.0 lltrs oil alone ,to the customer is over $200.00 usd !Its good for business but we would never get customers in to do 6000 miles oil change! No harm though,in making more frequent oil changes ,just not necessary ! |
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Has he fitted the same spec turbo as what you had before?I have seen some X5s fitted with a 2056,2256 ,when they sould have a 2260,for example ,as the turbos are all interchangeable! Since you have lack of boost,it maybe something simple like boost escaping from a badly tightened hose clip or vacuum pipe ! Did he clean the catalytic or checked to see if any turbo parts are stuck there blocking it? Did he fit a new turbo.repaired your old one or a reconditioned one?If it was repaired or reconditioned ,maybe the VGT vanes are not adjusted properly and this is essential for good initial boost build up.. Good luck and keep us posted :) |
I don't know the answers to those questions. I would assume a like for like replacement on the turbo but as you have said it could be one of many. I checked the vacuum pipe today which goes to the black cylindrical box bolted to the inner wing and the pipe had a good suction. Don't get me wrong, when I hit the right place on the accelerator the car shifts along no problem but I have never had to push down so much to accelerate, it is to me at least very noticeable. I'll give it a few more days and see how things go. I understand that the cats are a sealed unit so couldn't exactly be cleaned through. I was told today by the garage that the car was quite smokey on friday and it wasn't acceptable to give back to me in that condition. After 120 miles drive on the motorway yesterday with plenty of foot down experiments with the turbo I can honestly say that it's hugely less smokey that it ever has been in the 3 years I've owned it.
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That black box is the vacuum reservoir and has 2 pipes.Not unknown for this to crack and loose vaccuum !Connect the 2 pipes together to bypass the reservoir just to test.If no different ,connect pipes to reservoir again. The cat is a sealed unit but what I meant was if the mechanic checked if there any turbo parts blocking it ,as usually when the turbo breaks,the turbine falls down the downpipe and stops in the cat. Hang on ,you said that the garage said the car was quite smokey on friday and it wasn't acceptable to give back to me in that condition.Well,they must have remapped it back and reduced the fuel and hence your lack of performance and smoke.Could also be they put a smaller turbo,like a 2056 off a pre-facelift 3.0D and then the injectors were over fuelling the car,so they had to drecrease the fuel amount debited!In anyway,this is very unprofessional and they should at least have let you see the car when finished the turbo replacement ,for you to see if the smoke was as before.On no account should they have messed about with ECU,without asking you first as this has nothing to do with the work you left the car with them for! |
Ok, here is a bit more on this.
I took the car out this morning and tried the 'adaptive throttle reset' procedure. To be honest I'm not 100% sure if this works or not and have seen about 3 different techniques to do this but I used this. Turn key to position 2, press accelerator pedal fully to floor and hold for 25 / 30 secs, then release pedal and start car and drive off. It does seem better through the rev counter but hey, that could be just me. I tried manual and auto through the gearbox and am much happier (placebo or not, lol). I noticed that when I got my car back the washer reservoir had been drained and refilled with plain water to the brim. My front windscreen washers didnt work so I fiddled about and got them going. I still dont have my headlanp washers working now and they definately did before taking it in as I use them a lot. This is being looked into now!!! Then 20 minutes ago I thought I'd recheck the vacuum resrvoir like you said Powers1. I removed the left hand pipe from it yesterday (nearest the drivers side wing) and it had a good suction. I wondered where the 'other' pipe is as you said above and connect the two pipes together....I dont have the 'other pipe which fits to the other end of the reservoir. Now, I've checked RealOEM parts diagram and one end goes to the turbo pressure converter and the other end goes into some more piping which hides under the engine cover. Will this have any effect on my turbo perfomrnace? I'm sure it must have some effect being a vacuum. Part No: 9 is missing! RealOEM.com * BMW E53 X5 3.0d VACUM CONTROL-ENGINE-TURBO CHARGER I'm searching as to what this actually does. Edit: I have looked under the bonnet again and have found that the pipe (no 9) in the diagram actually is there and it goes to the left hand side of the reservoir. I stuffed my hand down towards the turbo and felt around and have found the other pipe which comes off of pressure converter just dangling around. Which pipe goes to which side of the reservoir? Whatever next? |
Seems that with the pipe off you get hesitation and power loss. read this on a different forum. This explains all my problems with lack of power, more pedal pressing and then finally boost kicks in. I'm off to the garage to see what they have to say.
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........and finally after taking the car back to the garage and getting them to stick the pipe back on to the vacuum reservoir all is FIXED. Now I have lots of power through the gears like it used to. Think the turbo spinning up is a bit louder too, could hardly hear it before even with the window down.
Thanks for all the reply's guys, much appreciated. |
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Either pipe can be connected on either side of the vaccum reservoir but you will find that one is shorter than the other.;) Had to be vaccum loss as I said or at worst ,they fitted a different turbo. Now,the question is ,what did they do to stop the car from smoking so much? I bet you they left that pipe off,on purpose? Anyway,glad you got it sorted mate :rofl::thumbup: |
I don't know how much smoke was coming out of the exhaust to be honest but there isn't any now. I'm just assuming it was simply the last bit of oil in the cats and pipe work etc. it's just nice to get back in the X :)
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That smoke you are talking about is "white" smoke ,which as you said is due to the oil that found its way to exhaust system when turbo broke and has now almost cleared. Hope all else is fine with car and the garage didnt forget "anything" else:) |
Depending upon where you might be in the UK you could always look up BWChiptune to get Jason to have a look at the mapping etc. There's an active UK Forum too now (helped out by XOutpost. :thumbup:) at Xdrivers dot co dot uk that will be able to help out with UK Spec cars if you get stuck too.
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Thanks for the info. I was planning on selling the thing at the end of this month and this happened. Only thing I need to sort out now is the headlight washers. These don't work now after this little job (neither did the windscreen washer jets either but they are now). I have checked fuse 28 which I believe to be correct and that's fine. Can't hear the pump going though so that's a bad sign. Did try sticking a meter on the pump plug and with lights on and pressing the S button on the stalk got no voltage! It was dark though when I did this. Will continue investigation when I get a chance.
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Hi im glad you got it sorted,
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Another Turbo bites the dust.
So this has now happened to me, exhaust gases under the drivers side of the car, and the power is all over the place and I have rough idle. Turbo is shot and the Manifold has a crack so... Its time to pull it all out. I am a fairly decent DIY mechanic, so I am going to strip the car down and get the old manifold and turbo out. I have new Manifold (from X8R) one of those cast iron ones, with all new gaskets, reconditioned Garrett Turbo, from TurboTechnics with the fitting kit, etc...
Just looking at the warranty on the turbo they say I need to do a oil swap out as well at the same time as fitting a new turbo. Seems a bit of an over kill my oil is 3 months old. Could i just get away with priming the Turbo with some fresh engine oil? Anyway, Will do it and the manifold and the turbo and report back. Not making an arse of it and making sure I am methodical means... its the best part of a days work for me. Any advice is greatly welcome. Found this guy on the tinterwebs, seems like the right way to go about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdMIRg7u8U4&t=463s |
Hey, hope you get this fixed. I sold the car not long after getting it all fixed.
Chris |
Hey, hope you get this fixed. I sold the car not long after getting it all fixed.
Chris |
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When I replaced my manifold (with an X8R), I wondered about doing the turbo too but since it's fine (other than whistling when cold) and I didn't actually remove the turbo from the car, I left it well alone. I guess when it's "my turn" a straight turbo swap isn't too hard. I was thinking I'd just do a CHRA swap, assuming I don't leave my turbo so long as to fail and damage the main housing. The reconditioned options out here are few and far between. Could always get one in the from the UK I 'spose... |
Its not bad thinking as long as the housing is all ok, the main seals on both sides of my turbo where covered in burnt oil and on startup there was a fair amount of blue smoke that came out as it fired out the oil sitting in the turbo.
Its a pain to fit the turbo, you have to prime it first with engine oil when you fit the new one and I had to get the old one out from the bottom of car and requires a lot of jiggling to get it out. Installation is the same, through the bottom of the car, with a new primed turbo and the oil feed poured all over me so I was really unimpressed with that. I also got the X8R manifold, when it turned up my wife took the delivery as I was at work and she was like 'What the hell is it that weighs that much!' hahaha... Cast Iron Manifold my dear... ;) You can get X8R shipped all the way down there? I have some photos of me doing it, but truth is I was fighting getting it done in time, outside, its not that cold at the moment in the UK, around 9c but daylight is only 8am to 4pm-ish so it was kinda a rush. One thing you need is time to do a turbo, otherwise if you make a mess of it it can be a bit of an issue. I am going to hold on to my E53 for a couple more years then get a decent F15 as I was never that keen on the e70 so its well worth the time and cost for me to keep the old truck running. |
Thanks for the insights!
Yes, X8R (via eBay) ship to NZ - the manifold plus shipping/taxes etc. was a mere NZ$200 - a real bargin! I sometimes cut the little finger off a latex glove to use as a sealing cap when working on oil filled lines etc. that want to leak all over me... Easy to remove once in position. |
http://baacreative.com/BMW/IMG-2433.JPG
http://baacreative.com/BMW/IMG-2429.JPG Okay, so I did the job with a new intercooler to turbo pipe, new garratt turbo and a new cast iron Manifold. Took two days and I am happy to say its back to full power and running really well and doesnt let any blue smoke out on startup any more. Its not a job for the faint hearted and some times you are going to need an extra pair of hands. The bolts on the manifold and to reattach the turbo by holding it, bolting it and holding a gasket in place is really a challenge! |
Nice work, Lamby!
That new turbo is a thing of beauty... :thumbup: After changing out my manifold via the side (images here - https://xoutpost.com/1142332-post39.html) I found re-attaching the turbo not too bad a task. A small dab of grease is very useful to hold gaskets in place when they won't stay put! ;) |
Cheers Wpoll, not the worst job I have ever done in my life in a car, I did once snap a engine stud in an old Saab 900 AND THAT was a total pain, still I learnt how to drill out and use a bolt extractor. Just took forever! :D That Turbo is putting the rest of the engine bay to shame!
Also that is a great post on how to do this job you did and great idea with the dab of grease I didnt want to get anything near the ports and like you I stuffed shop cloth in all the holes of the turbo, was test driving it and totally panicked that I didnt take them out.... but I had of course. |
Not that you can see the turbo. :bustingup
Here's mine when I first saw it (a few years back, when I was changing my thermostat). The oil was from the inlet - the engine breather was pretty blocked and there was lots of crankcase blow-by... :rolleyes: https://i.ibb.co/F3Psrpp/20160604-105922.jpg https://i.ibb.co/5GRNRVD/20161226-101845.jpg Lamby, does your turbo compressor inlet pipe have that the small swirl vanes at the turbo end? Between part #3 and #4 (fits into the back of #4)? http://www.euro4x4parts.com/photos/s...5_e53_mdaz.jpg Here's a shot of my actual inlet... https://i.ibb.co/gJP5RZ9/20160604-105905.jpg You can see the small plastic (fragile!!) swirl device in the centre. Curious to know if yours has (had) one too... :dunno: BTW, I hate using the term "swirl" in an E53 post - it starts all manner of useless conversations! ;) |
Hi Wpoll,
Nope, I didnt have that small fan/swirl vane in the pipe, I dont have the swirl flaps either on the other side, as I have the M57tu engine and this didnt come with those or a DPF on my Year/Month of UK spec X5 d sport. Which is 04/04 according to the plate on the engine bay. Really strangely I did have the 'Toilet Roll' oil breather! So that was one of the first things I switched out. I think the vortex is a much better design but worries me slightly about filtering the oil, as it is less friction but... where does the rubbish in the breather go? So I am pretty fastidious when it comes to an oil change, every 8,000 to 10,000 mile and I only use Castrol Edge Titanium 0w30 - I know this might send the internet into melt down... :D but this is just my experience, I used Castrol since I was 21 and I blew a Peugeot 205 GTi running running Mobil Super. Anyway.. it's another story. Quote:
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DPF seems to be rare (at least, from the factory). A few folk have fitted the retro DPF kit from BMW, in order to pass local emission laws etc. (Germany?). The engine breather with the loo roll filter was factory fitted to all M57TU engines until around mid-2005, when BMW changed the production line to the vortex design. This is the same time as they released a TSB/TIB indicating the need to service (i.e. replace) the (loo roll) breather about every 60,000km. Seems they wanted to reduce service intervals (costs) and turbo failures under warranty. The loo roll is a better filter, no question. The vortex unit requires less servicing, no question. Long term, I think the vortex design will lead to more inlet fouling but only time will tell. Ideally, I'd use the loo roll unit but change it regularly. It costs NZ$170 here though.. ouch. Both design are designed to trap oil vapour precipitate and allow it to run back down into the engine. Where did you get your refurbished GT2260V from? :popcorn: |
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Happened at the worst moment where I was sitting between carriageways on the Princess Highway with traffic heading straight for me at 100 kmh... Had to just floor the accelerator to get across with clouds of smoke behind me...:( I should have put a new turbo in when I changed the manifold to cast iron a couple of years ago; as oil got everywhere... I just put in a second hand turbo as a temporary fix; I had the vortex breather in, and now have just changed the oil and breather to the roll filter type to try it out, I’ll see what it’s like in a month. |
Yikes, deepblonde. :yikes:
Any indicators or warnings signs before it went south on you? :dunno: |
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I had just been through Kentucky drive through, motor was thoroughly warmed up, mild day; It happened with as I was pulling away gently from rest as I waited for traffic between the lanes ; There was a pop and my turbo was completely destroyed; shafts, I should have taken photos but it was just an oily broken mess... I guess it was pretty old, I should have just changed it beforehand, as I got oil throughout all the pipes, intercooler, intake; I’ll take off intake manifold again soon to clean it properly, when I’ve got more time, also oil got onto my alternator causing overcharging, but I cleaned it with brake cleaner and it seems to have fixed it, but I bought a spare just in case it explodes... :explode: |
Ouch, the fact that the turbo gave way when the engine was relatively low on load and stress does tend me to think the CHRA could have been wobbling and oil was letting by on the seals, once this seal let go, the turbo would have hit the casing and smashed itself to bits.
Wpoll, I got my Turbo on a exchange basis from Turbo Technics, https://www.turbotechnics.com/ these guys are really reputable. There are other Turbo shops around that are cheaper and probably do the same sort of job, after all, they have the same equipment to balance and use the same parts, etc... just if I am going to spend 2 days doing a tear down and turbo install, I am going to do it with a turbo from guys with the best reputation although there demands on the warranty installation are a little steep! I will just confirm they have all been correctly processed and I will drop my oil in 5,000 for new oil and filter just to be sure. |
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