Baum Tools are sending me a replacement locating pin at cost. They are cool to deal with!

I got the sub-chassis/steering rack cleaned up last night. I'll "detail" it tonight and take a few pics. It looks much nicer now. I didn't realize the rack was a grey/brown color since everything was black oil color before. lol

I was thinking more of the 6" woofers in the front doors.

Ah yes, the front doors. Yes, I do plan to widen the holes a little to accept a standard size driver.

So on the transmission, I spoke to "Certified Transmission" who seem to have a good rep from what I can tell. So they would do the following:

• Replace all "soft parts" (clutches, seals, etc)
• Inspect all hard parts and re-machine any worn parts
• Apply any OEM updates
• Re-manufacture torque converter
• Balance converter and dyno test transmission/converter

Comes with 3 year/75k warranty.

They don't stock the 5HP-24 for the 4.6is (only the 4.4), so I would have to send them mine to rebuilt vs. paying a core and getting one they already did. I would probably prefer that anyway.

So that is the good news. The bad news is the price is $3299, which is 1/3 what I paid for the entire truck before I started replacing stuff. Not sure if that is really worth it for the piece of mind of getting a warranty vs. attempting the rebuild myself.

Looking at the California Transmission Supply Company website, it looks like I would need the following:

Overhaul Kit 5HP24 $154.38
Steel Kit 5HP34 $195.86
Fiber Clutch Kit 5HP24 $175.22

So a total of about $525 vs. $3299 and I supply the labor and no freight cost either.

I haven't rebuilt an automatic transmission before, but have done just about everything else. So how hard are these to tear down and put back together?

Any special tools that I need?

I believe there's a book available specifically on how to rebuilt these transmissions. I'll see if I can find a link. So if I get this book and any needed tools, and take my time and stay organized, do you think I'd be able to pull it off?

Auto transmissions are tricky. Many mechanics that don't specialize won't work on them for good reason. I'd let a pro do it and sleep tight knowing it is their azz on the line.

My 2 cents.

You can rebuild an automatic following a good manual. Slow and steady. You need to be very methodical, and have a place to lay everything out. Everything has to be very clean. There are occasionally special tools required for some seals, clips, etc but nothing extreme.

You won't necessarily be able to update software, you won't be able to test it until you reinstall it, and you will have to send the torque converter out for rebuild. But if you like working on nicely engineered parts, and have the time, consider doing it. I enjoyed it. But I never made close to the flat rate times.

Found this thread on the 5HP24 which has a lot of great info:

ZF 5HP24 teardown

You also used to be a tech?

Independent garage. Worked there until after engineering school. Many years ago. The shop owner was an old school mechanic who would tackle any job, foreign or domestic, so we had a wide variety of work.

JCL, you mentioned sending out the converter to be rebuilt. So they are rebuildable? I seem to recall reading somewhere that they couldn't be rebuilt, maybe it was the guy from California Transmissions when I spoke to him a while back. I'll check with the guy I spoke to today about the price of doing the whole thing what the cost would be for just the converter.

I think I'm going to take on the challenge. I'll prep a nice clean work area before I get started.

So here's the sub-frame and steering rack after getting all cleaned up.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_21_01.JPG

Here's a close up of the motor mount. Looks in real good shape to be and is very solid to the touch.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_21_02.JPG

I popped one of them out, and they appear to have been made in 2006. No idea when they were actually installed.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_21_03.JPG

Here's one of the bushings. Looks like I can still see a little of the paper label that was on it when installed. So I would think recently replaced? I do see a bit of a crack in the rubber, but perhaps that's pretty normal?

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_21_04.JPG

Converters can technically be rebuilt, but if no supplier is willing to do so you can get a reman. I don't know specifically about your converter. A reman is generally a rebuild with a different pricing model.

Bushings. You see the BMW symbol on the rubber, so it's genuine part. They do put date codes on this, which would also confirm if they have been replaced in the past.

I had issues with the other front suspension arms and ball joints, and decided (even knowing my torque bushings were only three years old) to do EVERYTHING all at once - so you have a "like new" reference. Since you have everything apart, why not?

Thanks. The 4.6 converter is the larger 12" diameter one compared to the more common 11" diameter one used on the 4.4 trucks.

Here's an outfit that is aware of the differences and offers the 12" one specifically for the 4.6:

Transmission Torque converter, ZF5HP24 TC-BMW78

$279 w/ free shipping seems like a reasonable price.

These would probably be good to pick up as well?

http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/M465SC.html

http://www.makcotransmissionparts.co..._Code=LA-2001K

I also found a 5HP-24 repair manual online (130 page .pdf), which seems to very complete with pictures, procedures, torque specs, etc.

http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/6-r...explained.html

Because it doesn’t have a torsional vibration damper the LUC in the L51 model converter (SACHS WA4/W280 S-2GWK) is particularly sensitive to being set up correctly.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...LUCsection.jpg

The total piston movement, on to off, is only 1mm and the retainer for the piston return springs - which double as tangential driving straps - is friction welded into place so has to be turned off on a lathe and then accurately re-welded in the correct position once the friction plate has been replaced.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...drivinghub.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ullLUCassy.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...lateinsitu.jpg

For that reason torque converter remanufacturers shy away from this particular model or, if they do offer to recondition it, may not risk attempting to replace the LUC. I’d strongly recommend therefore that you find somewhere that has a lot of experience with this particular model.

Phil (aka Bemble on landrovernet)

Phil's advise is like gold as far as transmissions go. This man really knows his stuff. To bad you are not in US

Thanks for your advice Phil! I read your thread on the 5HP24 teardown with great interest and that is what gave me the courage to take on this project myself.

I'll do some research on the Sachs L51 to make sure I find someone that has experience with this particular model.

As I have been with the rest of this project, I'll be taking plenty of high resolution pictures as I go.

Regarding special tools, the 5HP24 is particularly easy to strip & rebuild – the whole thing practically comes apart just using T27 & T40 Torx drivers - but you will need to fabricate something to compress the clutch return springs. Three tools will suffice for all six clutches.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ssionTools.jpg


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...n/A-clutch.jpg
A Clutch


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...n/B-clutch.jpg
B Clutch


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...n/C-clutch.jpg
C Clutch


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...on/D-brake.jpg
D Brake


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...on/E-brake.jpg
E Brake


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...on/F-brake.jpg
F Brake


People have kindly been sending me photos of the improvised tools that they’ve made – their ingenuity never ceases to amaze me. Here’s a couple ! :

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps3ac09ea9.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps4db71273.jpg



It also helps if you have something to assist removing the two jump tubes for the C/D clutches :

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ubePuller2.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...TubePuller.jpg



The RWD versions of the 5HP24 for BMWs and Jags also require a special tool for the output bearing nut :

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...dNutSocket.jpg


but the ‘029’ and ‘034’ models used in the E53 have a different rear end (due to the transfer case) which means that this tool is not required

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psbdfb32a8.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps0da98a4a.jpg

Phil

P.S. You might want to get your transmission apart before going to the expense of buying a full set of clutch plates as you’ll probably find that you don’t need them

Great pics! That wooden press looks a little scary, but it clearly was good enough for the job of dealing with the clutch springs. I'd love to score an old Delta press like what you got!

I should be able to fab up tools like those you show and fashion something for the jump tubes.

I called Macko transmission parts to enquirer about their rebuilt torque converter they have listed for $279. As it turns out, that particular model is no longer available from their supplier. Hmm, I wonder if it has anything to do with what you stated Phil about these being particular challenging to remanufacter?

I emailed thectsc (they don't have a phone number) to see if they have or can get this elusive converter.

The part number for the L51 converter is 24407512589 and the price of a "new" one is $1550 or so. I say "new" as I understand these would actually be remanufactured?

The only place I found that offers a remanufactured version is in Germany and they have it for 339 Euros.

Torque converter specialist*-*Torque converter BMW 24407512589

Even with shipping, that would probably still be cheaper than purchasing a "new" one here in the US.

I'll continue my search for an outfit that has experience remanufacturing this particular converter. Surely that has to be something available that falls somewhere between discontinued $280 unit and a "new" unit at $1550.

Stunt, your notation on the solitary crack in the engine mount. They are hydraulic, and since there is a crack it's very possible the fluid has leaked out, but during your immaculate cleaning abilities you've erased the evidence that the engine mounts are/have failed. Also, being 7.5 years old now, its better to replace them while its easy to do anyway.

Stunt. East coast. Call here

Erikson : (203) 386-8931

Hi racing,

The piece with the visible crack is the tension strut bushing. It still feels very firm moving up and down relative to the sub-frame. These appear to be pretty easy to change later if needed, so I'll probably leave them alone for now.

That said, I agree with you that I should just go ahead and replace the engine mounts now they they are so easy to get to, so that's what I'll do.

If you have a visible crack in the tension strut bushing and play in the arm when pulling on it, I'd replace it while the car is apart and in the air, a pair of poly bushings shouldn't be much if you wanted to go that route, and I'd do the ball joints on the other side of the arm at the same time as well.

Thanks! The correct number for Eriksson Industries is 800-388-4418. The guy answering the phone at the first number said they get calls all the time for Eriksson, lol, but he pointed me in the right direction.

Anyway, I spoke to Scott and they have done plenty of the L51 converters. Price was a very good $250. They didn't have any cores at the moment, so I'm sending him mine. Turn around is 2-3 days.

Here's their web site:

ZF Parts Eriksson Industries

Ok, I'll do those too then while I'm at it. Hell, might as well do the ball joints as well now that I got the converter situation resolved, and at a very reasonable cost.

Picking up a 20 ton Excalibur shop press I found on craiglist this evening after work. That will come in handy for those bushings and the transmission clutches (and a lot of other stuff that I have been doing with a vise or hammer up until now on previous projects/repairs :D)

Phil, would you mind sharing the I.D. and O.D. of each of the 3 spring compressors shown as well as the height of the welded on "U"?

Thanks!

I wonder if something like this would work?

http://eustools.my/images/eustools/p...eries/3105.jpg

Here' s a link to their web page. Not in the US unfortunately.

CLUTCH SPRING COMPRESSOR Engine Series Car Special Repair tool, automotive engine repair Tool, auto tool, transmission tool, body panel, under car tool, body tool, radiator tool, pneumatic tool, air tool, impact tool

Phil -

Sorry for the threadjack. In regards to your other message re: full rebuild kits versus specific parts. What is normal standard operating practice from a trans builder point of view. Teardown and only replace failed parts, and maybe a upgraded part like the upgrade A Clutch Drum.

I just had my wiring harness replaced (temp sensor fault) on my trans which was rebuilt about 6 month ago.

The D brake piston, in particular, is quite narrow so I would imagine you’d need the ‘custom made’ spring compressor tool at least for that one.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps6881dbba.jpg

The three sizes I use are :

Large (D brake) = 164mm o/d, 155mm i/d
Medium (B clutch & E brake) = 110mm o/d, 97mm i/d
Small (A & C clutches and F brake) = 89mm o/d, 80mm i/d

These are the diameters where the tool actually contacts the spring but you may wish to add a step in the ‘hoop’ to bring it up to a large enough diameter to weld the ‘handles’ to.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psf6ddcf9f.jpg

Each tool is around 125mm tall (total height top to bottom) to suit my mandrel press.

Phil

Thanks for the size details Phil! Didn't think about the narrowness needed. I'll probably see about fabbing up something like what you have.

Deal on the 20 ton press fell through. Some guy picked it up this morning. Wish the seller would have at least called me instead of making me drive an hour to his place... Oh well, back to looking for one of those again now.

The gasket and seal kit (ZF 1058 298 022) is clearly essential but, other than that and a re-manufactured torque converter & sump filter, I don’t generally replace anything else unless it’s obviously required.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...1058298022.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...verhaulKit.jpg

The only exception to this is the axial needle roller bearing (ZF 1058 202 016) between the B clutch hub and C clutch drum - the Achilles Heel of the 5HP24 - which I invariably replace regardless of condition/mileage.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...1058202016.jpg

The control system is so protective of the clutch packs (i.e. drops into TRANS FAILSAFE PROG at the merest sniff of unscripted clutch slip) that it’s extremely unlikely that the clutch plates will have worn at all, unless someone has driven the vehicle around in failsafe mode. For example I generally measure the friction plate thickness of brand new plates at 1.60mm and after 120,000 miles the plates generally measure 1.60mm.

The A clutch drum issue is only relevant to transmissions built before November 2000 (serial number 355863) when the stiffened drum with the radial swages and the main pressure valve land width increase (from 9mm to 10mm) were introduced.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i.../LaterDrum.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psce1fbadf.jpg

Phil

Sorry, I lied. I always replace the three steel pipes for the B clutch feed, E brake feed and 1st gear sprag lubrication too.
(The ends deform to form a seal as they’re hammered into place)

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...2008/Pipes.jpg

Phil

Thx Phil. New wire harness in. Hopefully should be all good. Turns out the guy who owns the tranny shop has a older E39 and a E70 to boot

The crank shaft holding tool finally showed up today. So after getting it bolted on to the crank snout with some M8 bolts (they have to be longer than the ones that hold on the pulley) and getting some 6x6 pieces under the handle, I was ready to give the "Jesus bolt" another try.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_01.JPG

Here's my extender pipe

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_02.JPG

Well, it didn't go well. Broke my 3/4" to 1/2" reducer from Napa. It was rated at 395 ft/lbs. I guess that wasn't enough to break it loose.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_03.JPG

I went with the reducer since I don't have any metric 3/4" drive socket. Determined to get this bolt off, I put on a 1 1/16" 12 point 3/4" drive socket.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_04.JPG

And success at last! It actually started to loosen before my feet were completely off the ground at the end of that pipe. :D

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_05.JPG

With that out of the way, I figured now would be a good time to separate the engine and transmission. After undoing the 12 bolts holding the belllhousing to the engine and having the engine raised the the transmission blocked to "balance" things, the two floated apart with no effort at all.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_06.JPG

So the converted was still attached to the flexplate. I figured this was less stress on the transmission input shaft than unbolting it first. If I was pulling the transmission with the engine still in the car, I would have unbolted it first because it would have been very hard to maintain the right angle during the separation process I would think.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_07.JPG

Here are the ID numbers on the converter.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_08.JPG

I figured I'll drop the lower oil pan next to expose the bolts here that hold the bottom of the lower timing cover in place.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_09.JPG

So here are the 6 bolts on the passenger side of the bellhousing. Note that the 2 starter bolts are slightly longer than the rest and also that the top bolt takes an E10 socket where the rest take an E12.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_10.JPG

Driver side is very similar, only 2 of the bolts have nuts on the engine side.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_11.JPG

I also got the new front axle flex plate. Quite a difference compared to the old one.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_12.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_13.JPG

Finally, here's a pic of another V8 I need to get off the engine stand so that I can put the 4.6 on it.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_16.JPG

Any guesses what it is? :D

Nice, congrats!!


Chrysler?

That's a 69 GM 350 small block 4-bolt main out of a 69 GMC 1500 truck. I plan to rebuilt it and drop it in my 1970 GMC dump truck that currently has a tired 305 in it.

Took maybe all of 2 hours to pull that engine (it was mated to a 4 speed manual) so quite a contrast to the X5!

I was going to cheat and decipher the casting number on the block. But you already gave up the answer.

Lol, yeah sorry about that. Casting # is 3932386.

That block was used in 3 different applications as follows:

302 cu. in. 4 bolt mains 290 hp 1969 Camaro Z28
327 cu. in. 2 bolt mains 210 hp 1969 Camaro
350 cu. in. 4 bolt mains 300-350 hp 1969 No specific application listed This is the one I got

It was an all original numbers matching truck one owner:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/69gmctitle.jpg

Check out the mice nests when I pulled it, lol

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/69gmcengine-03.jpg

Here she is after getting her home.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/69gmc-01.jpg

Paid $250 for it and after pulling the engine, took the rest to the scrap yard where they paid me $400 for it.

Oh and here's the 1970 GMC dump truck I'm going to put it in.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/gmcdump10.jpg

Paid $1200 for it. Everything works 100%, including the hydraulic dump bed.

Old american iron sure is cheap compared to the stuff we work on around here!

Awesome, that truck has a smaller GVWR than the X5!
Love those deals like that, buy low, sell high!

I got the converter off

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_26_01.JPG

And next the flexplate. Not sure what that oil leak is at 2 o'clock?

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_26_02.JPG

Close up of that area. Hmm, will need to clean it up I guess to figure out what's going on. Hopefully it's just that torx bolt that is a little loose. The rear seal isn't leaking at all, so I'm hoping to leave that alone.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_26_03.JPG

After getting the flex plate off, I bolted the engine to my stand and rotated it 180 degrees so that I can work on the oil pan

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_26_04.JPG

Another angle

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_26_05.JPG

Before going any further, I'm going to spend some time cleaning this messy oily shop floor and get everything much better organized. It is a complete mess right now! And I'll wrap the engine in a trash bag until everything has been cleaned up.

Cmon. I know I just did not read that you are not going to change the RMS. I would...

I am with you on this. Trans off, the rear main seal would be a sure thing for me as well.

I've changed a few rear mains on the M62, definitely replace it while it is super easy to access. Part#11141736521 is likely what is leaking oil. It comes in the rear main kit.

Also, I can see the rear coolant cover is seeping a little. I've done that job a few times as well. Part# 11141729836 is for the coolant leak. I would replace these bolts also, they are susceptible to galvanic corrosion.

Ok you guys convinced me. I'll add those parts and new bolts to my list.

Love this thread.

Great pics & info. Thanks all!

Hey Stunt, do you think the tranny and torque converter rebuild will cure the dreaded 2-1 downshift lurch/jerk that we all hate?

You know, you just reminded me of that lurch jerk 2-1. Mine has gone away completely after the fluid change and new solenoids.

Hmmm, that is a novel way to get an oil change done......

Oh and I did my own tranny couple of years ago. Quite doable. Your skills and tools seem to be well up to the. task

Rather than tear more stuff apart and make more of a mess, I decided to clean up a little this afternoon after work.

A quick broom and mopping of the floor helped a lot.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_27_01.JPG

Also consolidated and organized all the front end and engine accesories

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_27_02.JPG

And I got the L51 packaged up and ready to ship out tomorrow for rebuilding.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_27_03.JPG

I sure hope so. Mine started doing this the last 500 or so miles I drove it.

Solenoids huh? I'll have to inspect mine carefully. Those are one item I was hoping to not replace!

Oh come on, you're this deep... why not spend a little more!

This is the same mentality I've been in for over a month. I'm a do it yourself'er down except to rebuilding an auto trans (but I may be up to it with the info provided here) and I recently bought a 4.4 for my wife and I've paid a really good indy shop to replace every seal on the motor, timing chain guides, valley pan etc etc etc. Every time I call him I say... oh, what the hell, you're in there. lol

If it wasn't for my current work situation and weather I'd be doing it all myself, and enjoying it, but whew its breaking my wallet, and he's giving me a hell of a deal.

I've got an e34 I've had a long time, and shortly after buying it, I had every thing out of the car except for the main harness, doors, sunroof cassette, and front and rear subframes. Including doing an Auto to Manual trans swap, and swapping every other thing to the way I wanted. Even the heater core and some of the blend door/boxes. I love the projects as they give you real peace of mind that things are right, and that you're not afraid when they break way down the road. I really appreciate your documentation, I'm terrible with that. Can't thank you enough for quality pictures.

Oh come on, you're this deep... why not spend a little more!

This is the same mentality I've been in for over a month. I'm a do it yourself'er down except to rebuilding an auto trans (but I may be up to it with the info provided here) and I recently bought a 4.4 for my wife and I've paid a really good indy shop to replace every seal on the motor, timing chain guides, valley pan etc etc etc. Every time I call him I say... oh, what the hell, you're in there. lol

If it wasn't for my current work situation and weather I'd be doing it all myself, and enjoying it, but whew its breaking my wallet, and he's giving me a hell of a deal.

I've got an e34 I've had a long time, and shortly after buying it, I had every thing out of the car except for the main harness, doors, sunroof cassette, and front and rear subframes. Including doing an Auto to Manual trans swap, and swapping every other thing to the way I wanted. Even the heater core and some of the blend door/boxes. I love the projects as they give you real peace of mind that things are right, and that you're not afraid when they break way down the road. I really appreciate your documentation, I'm terrible with that. Can't thank you enough for quality pictures.

We need to be careful not to tar with the same brush the 5HP24 and the 6HP26 transmissions here.

Certainly the 6-speed transmission has an increasing number of issues relating to the performance/durability of the Mechatronic unit EDS solenoids (particularly 3-4 shift problems)

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psd24f62ad.jpg

Solenoid issues are, on the other hand, very rare for the 5HP24. They certainly don’t need replacing as a matter of routine (assuming the transmission was performing fine before removal?)

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...EDS1_photo.jpg

Phil

Thanks Phil.

I don't think I have provided a chronological account of my transmission issues in this thread, so let me do that now.

• 2/2013 133k Purchased X5
• 8/2013 134k Dropped transmission pan and changed the filter and did oil change (ZF Lifeguard)
• 10/2013 136k Getting "TRANS FAILSAFE PROG" when starting cold. No issues when starting warm but did notice rough 2-1 shift
• 12/2013 138k Checked fluid level and it was 1 quart low. I topped it off, but still getting "TRANS FAILSAFE PROG" when cold
• 1/2014 138k Getting "TRANS FAILSAFE PROG" now also when hot
• 3/2014 138k I drained the transmission oil and it was black and smelly

Stunt.... I would just rebuild it since you already have it out.

No special tools are needed, just some room for the rebuild and make sure you keep everything CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN!! ( JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource )

there are links @ the bottom with full howto's

I was fully planning on rebuilding mine, but I got lucky... I changed the filter / fluid at 100k miles and it has been treating me very good since! I plan on doing it again at 150k :)

Thanks for that link bigblack! I hadn't come across that one before.

I do intend to rebuilt the transmission. Just shipped off the converter this morning and will begin tearing the transmission down this weekend hopefully.

This is going to be one hell of a bulletproof 4.6iS when finished stunt.

I hope you are either keeping it or to be honest the right buyer would definitely pay good money for the piece of mind.

Now if you want bullet proof.... go with this!

Level 10 PTS Bmw Automatic Bulletproof Rebuilding Kit

Yeah, that looks like it would be bulletproof! But pricey.

I spoke to Eriksson again about cost of various parts that I need and here's the list w/ part numbers. Hopefully I won't need everything, but I'll know more after I tear the tranny down.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/zfpartslist.JPG

Most of this is what Phil already suggested and he already knew the needle roller bearing part number before I complete that sentence, lol.

He also recommended getting the F piston. This has a molded rubber surround and they often find they have to replace it.

He said to inspect the main pressure regulator bore in the valve body. Often a groove will be worn in it as a result of spending a lot of time cruising at the same speed (rpm), typically 2200 rpm. What will happen is when accelerating from that cruise and a downshift occurs, the pressure regulator piston will get stuck in the grove, and rather than maintain an oil pressure of about 200 psi, it will rise to 550 psi by 3000 rpm, which is not good for the transmission.

If there is a groove, Option 1 would be to replace the valve body at a cost of about $260, or the bore can be reamed out and a slightly larger main pressure valve piston can be fitted. The cost of the 2nd option is $125.

He also said to check that there is no crack in the valve body where the part number is stamped in it. If that is the case, that kind of dictates which option to take with the above mentioned issue.

Finally, on the 3 tools to release the clutch springs, I got a quote from a local metal fabrication shop. They would waterjet cut the 3 "rings" out of 1/2" steel and then use 1/2" round steel for the uprights and 1/2" by 3/4" for the cross member portion of the handles.

Cost would be $120 per tool ($360 total) and $5 extra per tool to have them powder coated black medium texture. I asked Eriksson about the cost of those tools from ZF and he laughed and said the cost would be much higher.

I'm wondering if there would be interest in having a small run of these tools made as the price would go down quite a bit since almost all the cost is in setup/labor, not the material cost (the 3 rings would all be concentrically cut from a single 1/2 stock).

I wish I could do metal work myself and make something up. I did pick up a shop press, so I just need some means of pressing those clutches down.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_25_14.JPG

Once I get the assemblies out of the transmission, maybe I'll be able to figure out a way to get the clips out without those custom made tools?

Right, I forgot I have the 6 speed. Yea my solenoids caused me some grief, but wasn't too bad of an expense. My reverse got screwed up bad when hot. I also have a feeling that I caused this when I dropped the filter and changed the fluid. I kept it at Lifeguard ZF6, I found that pink gasket material from the filter all over the solenoids. When I removed the filter first time, it was stuck in there quite horrifically. The seal on it tore, and most of it stayed up in the hole. I thought I cleaned most if it out, but It seems while I was tearing into it, I must have sent a bunch into the trans. But I did have that 2-1 lurch prior to all this. I haven't noticed in in recent memory at all.

Go to home depot with your measurements. Buy 2' sections of the appropriate PVC pipe. You may need to use adapters and such. Glue it up, and cut out the centers of them to access the parts once pressed. I have seen this before on your transmission, on this forum.

I applaud your multicultural beer selection, as well as the late 70's Honda m'cycle.

Great idea!

Let's see:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/pvcdim.JPG

Looks like Schedule 80 PVC will get me the closest, but Schedule 40 might work as well. I'll play with it once I get the assemblies out to see what I can come up with. Yeah, $360 for a set of tools I'll likely never need to use again (hopefully!) does not make much sense. If they could have done the set of tools for under $100 I would have probably gone for it, but not at the price they quoted me.

Lol thanks! I'm from Denmark. I suppose I should add some Carlsberg and Tuborg in the mix. :D

That's a 1970 CB450, first year with disc brakes up front.

Yes you should, and I believe I shall call you Beowulf and you shall call this project "Slaying Grendel's mother" LMAO :rofl::rofl:

I knew it was 70's CB but wasn't sure if early or late, but damn that beauty looks great for 44 years old! I hope my Triumph runs for that long,

Looking forward to more updates, are you born in Denmark/emigrated here or are you first generation? My father is born Czech citizen so I am first generation born here.

Right, don't forget, you have couplers and adapters you can glue onto the pipes. That is why I am suggesting to go to a supply and pick whatever will work. From that point on, you just glue the adapter or coupler to a long section, and cut out the appropriate window to get the parts apart when you compress the ring. Plus PVC is stupid tough in that direction.

Born in Denmark. Moved here in 1982 at age 16 with my family (my dad's work took us here). Lived here every since and have no intentions of going back except to visit family. Those first few months in high school were a bit rough, but it was all good after that. :D

Certainly no harm in replacing the F-brake piston, though I would say that a post ’01 transmission like yours is unlikely to suffer from this problem, generally seen on early models, which caused the transmission to lose reverse gear through leakage

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps2bf08bf1.jpg

On all of the later-model transmissions that I’m rebuilding at the moment the pistons are all in perfect condition

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps16257efb.jpg


Similarly with the upper valve block crack. A relatively common issue on early 5HP24s :

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...BlockCrack.jpg

which caused the transmission to drop out of 1st gear into neutral, when sat ticking over when warm, due to leakage between shift valve 1 and the clutch valve

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...cCircuit-1.jpg

I only ever see this issue on early Jaguars etc. so I’d be surprised if your 034 model was suffering from this. Just in case, though, it’s worth mentioning that the upper valve block in your 034 has different KV-B & KV-E spools to all the other models of the 5HP24 so the upper valve block is identified by the numbers ‘075’ stamped on to it (i.e. the last three digits of its part number)

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps45c303bb.jpg


Your transmission will also have the later 10mm land width main pressure valve spool but it is still worth checking the valve body for wear. The only satisfactory way I’ve found of doing this though is through vacuum testing (I use a pump designed to evacuate air conditioning systems)

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psb2843e75.jpg

This is the Sonnax oversized valve that they mentioned :

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps12bfa809.jpg


Clearly the torque converter will come back empty of fluid so you’ll need most of your 12 litres of fluid. The 034 model in the 4.6iS has a 0.88 litre higher fluid capacity than the 029 model for the 4.4i due to the larger torque converter.

Phil

As if this thread wasn't awesome enough already.

Greetings from Denmark. :thumbup:

Im in the same boat with replacing the guides and all minus the step of removing motor. I wish I had the space to do that!! Here is a list of some parts Ill be replacing and prices from 5 websites. Now not all the parts are genuine bmw brand but are just as reliable in my opinion. hope this helps and great progress so far and good luck. Keep the pics a coming!!:thumbup:

Got the lower timing cover off

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_28_01.JPG

Upper oil pan gasket appears intact (more on that later)

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_28_02.JPG

Inside of lower timing cover

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_28_03.JPG

Cardboard with all 21 bolts. The one inside the water pump snail had me going for a bit.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_28_04.JPG

A couple of pipes I removed I wanted to document for reassembly

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_28_05.JPG

So I'm trying to decide it it is worth the trouble to remove the upper oil pan and replace that (metal?) gasket? As per the previous picture, it was not damaged when removing the lower timing cover?

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_28_06.JPG

Picked up a 8ft table for placing the transmission parts on once I begin breaking it down. I plan to put a bed sheet down on the table and fold the other half of it over the parts when I'm not in the shop. That should keep everything nice and clean I would think.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_28_07.JPG

Awesome! My brother moved back and is coming over in a couple of weeks to visit. Unfortunately he's not mechanically inclined, or I would be putting him to work. He knows how to drink through, so this project might slow down a bit while he's visiting. :D

Phil, thanks again for your amazing contributions related to the 5HP24!

So here's the PVC spring compression tool that member civdiv99 posted in his transmission rebuilt thread.



http://www.xoutpost.com/attachments/...ch-pistons.jpg

He did say that:

"One of the tools needed to compress the spring could not find in a ready-made size, so I made my own tool out of some steel"

I'll play it by ear, so to speak, when I get to that point I suppose.

Thanks for the spreadsheet! Will have to check out autohaus, they have some good pricing.

Made some progress this morning. Decided I needed to take the engine off the stand and sit it on a table to put the flywheel back on so that I could lock the crank at TDC.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_01.JPG

Here's the inserted key

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_02.JPG

Installing the cam locks. This is how much you have to turn the cam against the spring to get it to align properly

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_03.JPG

Cam locks in place

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_04.JPG

Removing timing wheels. I wasn't able to remove the T55 torx bolt that hold the VANOS and gears on the cam shafts using my low torque 27mm wrench. Looks like I'll need to pick up a regular 27mm wrench to get those off. Since I'm rebuilding my VANOS units, they need to come off. You definitely don't want to rely on just the cam lock blocks to hold the cams in place when removing the torx bolts.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_05.JPG

Next I removed all the timing chain guide related parts

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_06.JPG

Those timing chain guides were extremely brittle. With next to no effort, they would crumble between my fingers. I can't believe BMW doesn't sell just the plastic guides and instead forces you to buy the metal as well.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_07.JPG

I next moved to the back and removed both the upper and lower covers. Definitely a good move to replace these gaskets and RMS.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_08.JPG

After seeing how the oil pump is not connected to the upper oil pan in any way, I decided to pull it after all. Had to remove the front diff. It is held to the upper oil pan with 4 bolts and just pulls right off. That o-ring is being replaced as it wasn't in real good shape.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_09.JPG

Here are the bolts holding the upper oil pan in place. The only other thing that need to be removed is the oil pick up as shown.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_10.JPG

Exposed crank

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_11.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_12.JPG

Closeup showing the oil injectors for the pistons

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_13.JPG

Upper oil pan

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_14.JPG

I'm glad I pulled it as I found some brittle plastic gasket pieces in there

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_15.JPG

So other than removing the VANOS and the upper chain tensioners this pretty much completes the tear down of the engine.

Turns out a 1 1/16" wrench is pretty much 27mm, so with that and my usual extension pipe, I was able to remove the T55 torx bolts from the 4 cams. Here's a shot with the gears, cam chain tensioners, VANOS oil distribution housings and VANOS solenoid oil check valves removed. So this is it, the engine is finally stripped all the way down!

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_16.JPG

Intake camshaft seal rings before I removed them

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_17.JPG

So tomorrow I plan to attempt to rebuilt the VANOS units and upper cam chain tensioners seen here

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_18.JPG

I'm all out of desk space

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_29_19.JPG

So now I know the final items to add the my engine parts list. Plan to place an order Monday.

Telling you call Craig at open road. 15% over cost is way better that all the prices people keep posting. My friend with a shop even uses him as he gets better pricing than through a world-pack account. That should say a lot.

Hi Slick, yep I plan to give Craig a call in the morning!

So I started fiddling with one of the Vanos units, and I'm unsure if mine are different from the ones shown in the Beisan procedure.

Here's what mine looks like after removing the center shaft and raising the Vanos piston center:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_30_01.JPG

Note the metal "washer" marked by the red arrow?

Now look at the picture from the Beisan procedure for the M62:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_30_02.jpg

I played around with the combination pick and all I could get a hold of was the plastic housing directly below that metal washer.

Here's another picture from the Beisan procedure showing the seal being removed. Again, there is no large metal washer in the way.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_30_03.jpg

From what I can tell, that metal washer won't come out and there are no references to it anywhere in the Beisan procedure. All their pictures show the plastic housing directly exposed.

Another difference I noticed is that when I raised the piston center, the inner washer/core did not rise with like in the Beisan pictures.

Any pointers on how to proceed would be much appreciated!

Yeah, different Vanos part number on the 4.6is vs. the 4.4:

11367515357 4/2002 4.6is
11361438694 4/2002 4.4i

I posted on the Beisan Vanos Forum (hosted on bimmerboard). Hopefully Raj can offer some insight.

Great job. Wish you were closer as I would love to help on this project as it looks like a deep dive into our SAV Beasts that would provide great insight.

Sucks about the guides eh? Keep up the good work.

Spoke to Raj at Beisan and the procedure is the same for my type of Vanos, it just has a metal housing instead of a plastic one.

So with the knowledge that I wouldn't screw up some hidden plastic housing, I was able to dig out the Teflon and O-Ring without any trouble.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_31_01.JPG

Inserting the new O-Ring went without a hitch

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_31_02.JPG

And sliding in the Teflon ring was also straightforward

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_31_03.JPG

There is a little curviness with the ring fully installed, but that should not impact the function of the ring, and should straighten itself out once it gets hot.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_31_04.JPG

Raj did say that with the metal housing vs. the plastic one, I won't be able to time the Vanos using a multimeter. I guess I'll figure out how to deal with that when the time comes.

Craig got my parts list and is working on pricing for me. With a bit of luck, I'll start putting the engine back together by the weekend!

Placed an order this morning with Craig for the following:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/craigparts.JPG

Savings of several hundred dollars over what I had come up with previously!

And with the savings, why not go ahead and freshen up the front suspension. :D I'm also listing the fluids that I plan to use.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/ecstuningandfluids.JPG

Hopefully the stuff from Craig will be here by the weekend.

The main shipment of parts has not showed up yet, but I'm hopeful it will be the first part of next week.

I did hear from Eriksson, and the torque converter has been rebuilt and was shipped out Thursday.

So I started cleaning the covers. Rear main seal cover

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_4_4_01.JPG

One of the upper timing covers. Note to self to use locktite on this one bolt.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_4_4_02.JPG

These 2 covers cleaned up

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_4_4_03.JPG

I noticed that the washers on the RMS cover have rubber centers. I'm pretty sure I ordered replacements. It was one of these that was causing the leak I noticed before removing the cover.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_4_4_04.JPG

Nice progress.

My rebuilt torque converter showed up today.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_4_7_01.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_4_7_02.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_4_7_03.JPG

It has a distinct rattle, but I suppose that's the lockup mechanism and normal since there is no fluid in it?

Lol! I was thinking the same thing , I would be in heaven but my wife would probably divorce me for being absent most of the time :D

Only 3k in one year man that hurts, god bless you though you have the time and the money to throw in her when you're all done you'll have rebuilt awesomeness lol

Incidentally, the ‘029’ (4.4i) and ‘034’ (4.6is) versions of the 5HP24 use the same bellhousing casting but the stiffening webs are partially machined for the 034 to provide the necessary clearance for the larger 280mm torque converter (029 uses the 260mm F38 unit)

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps1a6216f4.jpg

Phil

Awesome info on the transmission throughout this thread, Phil!

Nice looking weld on the TC rebuild.

I am really enjoying your thread, Stunt. Makes my Inspection II + shocks + thrust arm bushings + F. sway bar bushings work ahead of me seem like child's play.

Still waiting on the big shipment of parts. I'll contact Craig tomorrow to get an ETA.

I got the upper oil pan cleaned up. That was a bit of a pain. Don't worry, it's cleaner than it looks in this shot with the shadows. :D

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_4_8_01.JPG

Also got the 2nd Vanos seal installed. All that's left to do is to press the Vanos seal on both of them. I couldn't find any synthetic graphite grease, but did pick up some regular graphite grease for the bolt on the Vanos press. Hopefully that will suffice?

Email Craig and get the tracking number. I can't see it taking so long to get from NJ to VA. Maybe something is holding up the order, in which case you should tell him to ship what he has right now, and the rest later.

Yeah, there are still quite a few pieces that have not come in yet. I told him to give it until the end of the week and then ship everything that has come it at that time. Hopefully it will be close to everything by then.

Wife and 2 daughters (youngest 20 month, oldest having her 3 year birthday this weekend) are thankful I'm taking a breaking from being down in the shop every night, so it's all working out with the parts not being here until next week sometime. ;)

Speaking of which, here are a few shots of the little rascals.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/girls01.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/girls02.JPG

Those are some cuties Stunt!!!

You know they'll understand when your picking them up from high school in the mighty E53 :)

Very cute! Great ages.

Yes, they are very cute and a lot of fun most of the time.

Anyway, everything shipped today except for the following misc bolts:

07-11-9-902-601 ( 2 )
07-11-9-903-316 ( 7 )
07-11-9-903-850 ( 23 )

is that just soapy water you're using in the parts washer?

I'm using this stuff:

1 Gallon Degreaser

Not real effective. I'll probably switch to something else in the future.

Great info on the trans bell housing! Cute kids Stunt, I've got a niece around that age, lots of fun, and sponges for brains.

This is incredible! Best of luck.

In "the old days" I could get Safety Kleen products delivered to my home...not sure if they do it anymore, but it's the best product, especially with all the projects you have going. I could have them come on a schedule and change out the drum every month or two based on how much use I was giving it. Not sure if they still do it.

Environmental Products and Services | Used Oil | Safety-Kleen

Funny, it was all packaged in red and yellow back then, now it's "green"!

Notice from your parts list that you are replacing a lot of bolts such as the oil pan, fly wheel and timing covers. Is this something needed or are you doing it for ease and low cost insurance?

Appreciate the tip on the Safety Kleen product. Will look into that. The stuff I got from Harbor Freight doesn't really cut it. After I clean each piece, I rinse it with water, then blow dry with compressed air, then hit it with break cleaner to get all the oils that are still present.

I'm replacing critical bolts like for the upper and lower oil pans, rear/front covers and on rotating pieces like the flywheel. I want to ensure I get the right amount of torque and the old bolts, especially the long upper oil pan bolts could have been stretched. The bolts are relatively cheap, so I figured that was cheap insurance. I'll keep the old ones around and add them to my stash of metric bolts

Most of the parts showed up today. I'll inventory everything tomorrow and begin the reassembly process, time permitting.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_4_14_01.JPG

Something about that pile has to feel good :)

Definitely! :)

Does anyone know of a comprehensive list of bolt torque specs? The Bentley manual has some of them, but definitely not all.

Do you have access to TIS? I haven't played with it too much, but they might be in there. You're getting pretty deep into the rebuild, so maybe a standard torque table for the size of the bolts you're using would be handy.

Just sent you an email with a PDF (136 pages) of torque settings. Can't figure how to attach with my iPad.

Thanks James!

Here's the pdf in case others are interested.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/bmw_torq.pdf

thanx for posting the torque specs PDF, saved and printed to add to my Bentley Manual!
Looking forward to watching the transmission rebuild!
Best of luck!
:thumbup:

Thanks for posting this. Saved into my X5 folder on my laptop.

Ok guys, I'm back! :D

Had family visiting from across the pond and also a big project launching at work that I had been involved with for the last 10 months, that finally went live over this past weekend, so I finally have some time to continue my X5 project.

I got the Vanos seals pressed this evening. After first tightening the press bolt to 100 ft. lb. I was supposed to turn the bolt one more full turn. No way that was going to happen with my puny 3.5" vise. It was hard enough just getting to 100 ft. lb!

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_4_30_01.JPG

So I figured I'd use my newly acquired shop press instead, in combination with the Vanos press minus the bolt.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_4_30_02.JPG

I was careful to gradually increase the pressure in stages, removing the assembly and inspecting for movement, then put assembly back on press for a little more force, until the gap was gone. I also used the Vanos press bolt to tighten moderately before going back on the shop press to ensure perfect alignment of the upper and lower Vanus press pieces.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_4_30_03.JPG

Worked like a champ! Did the 2nd Vanos in one try as I now had the "feel" for how much to pump the hydraulic ram.

With that out of the way, it's time to start the reassembly of the engine, and then focus on the transmission next!

NICE!!

Sweet! Love the pile of parts on the table.

Got the valve train put back together. Here's a comparison of the old and new guides for the upper tensioners:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_1_01.JPG

Tensioners re-assembled with new O-Rings

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_1_02.JPG

Torquing the 11mm nuts to 14 Nm

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_1_03.JPG

Next up was installing the new Vanos check valves (old one shown in this shot, but I got it swapped before putting the housing on)

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_1_04.JPG

Then the new sealing rings

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_1_05.JPG

New gaskets. number facing the front as seen here.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_1_06.JPG

And finally the housings. 10 Nm on these 10mm bolts

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_1_07.JPG

Next the Vanos units, exhaust cam gears, upper chains, lower chain and guides. Unfortunately I somehow forgot to order the all plastic guide, so it will be a few days at least before I'll be able to button up the front.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_1_08.JPG

So while I wait for the all plastic guide to get here, I figured I'd do the bottom oil pans and rear covers.

Upper oil pan gasket placed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_02.JPG

Upper oil pan installed. All bolts torqued to 12 Nm. Oil pick up tube also installed and also torqued to 12 Nm.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_03.JPG

Lower oil pan installed. These bolts are all 10 Nm (8.8 grade vs. 10.9)

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_04.JPG

Next up was replacing the axle seal on the front diff

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_05.JPG

Front diff installed as well as the extension on opposite side of the upper oil pan housing.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_06.JPG

New RMS installed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_07.JPG

Rear of block ready for gasket

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_08.JPG

Gasket installed and sealant also applied to rear cover

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_09.JPG

Cover installed and sealant applied to rear coolant cover

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_10.JPG

Gasket installed. It came with sealant already applied, so no need to additional sealant on the cover itself

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_11.JPG

Rear covers completed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_12.JPG

Flywheel/flexplate mounted and 9 new bolts shown

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_13.JPG

Flywheel bolts torqued to 77 ft. lb. I have also installed the lock pin (red arrow)

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_14.JPG

New valley pan w/ "built-in" gasket

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_15.JPG

All torqued down (10 Nm).

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_4_16.JPG

Very very nice!!!

My friends often makes funny remarks about how nitpicking i am when i'm wrenching on my cars, and how much faster my repairs/projects could be finished if i would "just get-it-done-already".
You know, the same guys that always have to re-do everything two or three times before they get anything right.

And from that perspective, it is pure joy seeing how you meticulously and methodically progress with this 'a-bit-above-average-complexity' DIY project.
-The right parts. The right tools. The right torques. And the right attitude towards it all.
I have no doubt that you will end up with a very smooth running, leak free drive train when you get to the end of this.

And as others have mentioned, your whole documentation with specs and photos is very much appreciated. It is pure gold.

Really looking nice. Thread needs to be stickied!

How do you like the Snappy torque wrench? What's the range of torque it can do (and, I hate to ask, the price)?

I have a number of torque wrenches (4, to be exact), but none as nice as that one!

Glad you guys appreciate the detailed pics!

Yes, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that by taking my time and paying attention to details, once I'm done, I won't have to worry about the drivetrain for a good while!

I love these Snap-on digital torque wrenches. I got these 2 so far:

Snap-on TECHWRENCH 1/4" drive Flex Head 2 - 20 ft-lb $385 list
Snap-on TECHWRENCH 3/8" drive Flex Head 5 - 100 ft-lb $405 list

I picked up the 1/4" on eBay for $250, the 3/8" for $270. Both were sold as used, but were brand new. I know you sometime roll the dice on eBay, but I lucked out with there. Not a scratch on either one and they came with calibration sheets. They were within 0.8% forward and 0.4% reverse!

Very nice tools. They can be set to display ft-lb, in-lb or Nm. The display shows current torque value in real time and starts to vibrate when you get close and beep when you get within 1% of target and then flashes where you ended up for 10 seconds once you're done. Like when set for 10 Nm, after the beep, the display would flash 10.04 Nm or there abouts depending on how quickly I reacted to the beep.

I'm keeping an eye out for the 1/2" as well, which has a range of 25 - 250 ft-lb.

Up until this project I have been using a pair of Snap-on click type wrenches that I purchased new back in 2000 I think (3/8" and 1/2"), both very nice pieces, but for this project I knew I needed a 1/4" for some of the low torque values, and after getting and using the 1/4" one, there was no going back. lol

Once I pick up a 1/2", I'll be selling the "old-school" pair. :D

nice tools ,shop, hoist, and of course awsome pics .I just wish I bought a house with a garage now :( . but I had to listen to the wife about 14 yrs ago hmmmm. lol

Other than fighting off everyone else on Xoutpost bidding on ebay for these, they certainly sound like the thing to have.

The missing chain guide showed up yesterday. As with all the other replacement chain guide components, the new ones are brown where the old ones were black. Perhaps these newer ones will last longer?

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_01.JPG

With the final guide installed, and the cam blocks in place and the crank locked in position, the next step is to retard the Vanos units all the way. No need for a multimeter, just use the Vanos special socket tool and a 24 mm socket and turn both Vanos units all the way counter clockwise. I believe the only purpose of using a multimeter on the 4.4 engine, is as a secondary confirmation that the Vanos is fully retarded.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_02.JPG

Then the cam bolts are tightened down. I did 20 Nm, then 70 and finally 110 Nm. Be sure to counterhold each of the 4 cams with a 27mm open wrench during this step. Also make sure the T55 is fully seated in the cam bolt head. Check that the cam locking blocks don't raise off the heads.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_03.JPG

I found that one of my blocks did raise, so I fixed that with a c-clamp (red arrow) and went through the tightening sequence again.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_04.JPG

Next I installed the timing wheels and timing wheel positioning tools. Make sure the positioning tools are all the way down against the heads (red arrow).

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_05.JPG

Here's a shot of the front after the cam timing procedure had been completed.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_06.JPG

Time for the lower timing cover. I installed the new crank seal using a 1 7/8 socket.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_07.JPG

I added a little sealant in the bottom corners before installing the gaskets.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_08.JPG

A little more after installing the gaskets (red arrows).

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_09.JPG

Lower cover installed. Torque values as follows:

M6 8.8 (10mm hex) bolts front: 10 Nm (red arrows)
M8 8.8 (13mm hex) bolts front: 24 Nm (blue arrows)
M6 10.9 (10mm hex) bolts bottom: 12 Nm (yellow arrows)

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_10.JPG

Upper right cover was next. Again I added a little sealant in the lower corners. After positioning the timing cover, I applied downward pressure at the front end and torqued down the lower bolts on each side first. I did this as there is otherwise nothing that will ensure the timing cover is pressed tight against the lower timing cover. The Beisan procedure suggest temporarily installing the valve covers without washers to accomplish the same thing. I figured this was a lot easier and I hope will work just well.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_11.JPG

Here's the critical area that could leak. This is where 4 pieces all meet (upper oil pan, lower timing cover, upper timing cover and engine block). Keeping fingers crossed that mine won't.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_12.JPG

Turns out I forgot to order the left upper timing cover rubber grommet. This is used by the chain tensioner. I'll probably just pick this up locally.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_13.JPG

Parts table is starting to shrink.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_10_14.JPG

Slowly getting there!

I can tell you love working on these bmw`s ,with all the awsome pics you have posted so far. I just wish I had a shop like you do. one day hopefully .

You're doing God's work, son.

Wow, you don't play. Awesome setup, too.

Gitterdone!

Glad to see there are some people out there with that much passion and patience. Excellent work and thanks for taking the time to share this with us. Wish I had a garage like that, man the things I could do. Anyways, hope all goes well and you get her running soon.:thumbup:

Thanks guys!

I found this handy conversion chart for bolt diameter vs. head size:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/boltdiameterheadsize.JPG

thats ahandy chart for sure thx again .

Thanks for the chart, Stunt.

BTW: there's some black crud on your engine block. Might want to get after that. :D

Lol, yeah I need to get on that crud on the engine block asap!

Here's a chart I made showing the torque spec by head/socket size and grade:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/boltchart.JPG

Of course the local BMW dealer didn't have the rubber grommet in stock for the left upper timing cover, so it will be Wednesday before it comes it. Part number is 11141736758.

Each time I have pulled the cover off to work on the engine, I have seen stink bugs crawling on the engine and flicked them off. I'm sure one or two have crawled into the engine by now. I'm hoping they will just disintegrate when running the engine and be disposed of with the 1st oil change. I hate those things, they are everywhere, at least here in Virginia.

Do you have a target date you would like to be finished with the project?

Not really. That said, I'd like to think I'll have the engine 100% back together this weekend and begin tearing down the transmission and order parts for it next week.

So if all goes well, I think I can have it all back together by the end of the month.

On the front suspension, I went ahead and ordered a pair of new control arm ball joints (Lemforder OEM) from Pelican Parts along just now, along with a nice set of valve stem caps with the roundel logo so that I would qualify for free shipping. :D

I'm going to leave the rest of the suspension alone for now as things appear nice and tight. The ball joints were also pretty tight, but I figured I'd go ahead and swap those out while I had everything apart. The rest of the suspension is pretty easy to get to I think for when I need to. Previous owner did state a lot of that had recently been replaced.

So I got to thinking about "hand" pushing down that upper right timing cover and decided to use the valve cover method. Here's the deck height difference before I started.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_13_01.JPG

And after. I was able to reduce the height difference by half. No way to get the top edge of the timing cover flush with the head.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_13_02.JPG

I used 4 washers under each of the 4 front side bolts (red arrows) as well as card board under the valve cover where it meet with the timing cover.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_13_03.JPG

I really want this engine to be leak free on the first attempt if I can! :D

Picked up the rubber grommet from the dealer and got the 2nd upper timing cover installed using the same technique as with the other one.

Next up was installing the solenoids. Even though I'm using new solenoid gaskets which have a Buna inner gasket, they are prone to leaking, so I'm using sealant here as well.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_14_01.JPG

Solenoids torqued to 25 Nm

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_14_02.JPG

Solenoid gaskets torqued to 9 Nm

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_14_03.JPG

New crankshaft timing chain tensioner installed with new crush washer. Torque to 40 Nm

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_14_04.JPG

Sealant for water pump

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_14_05.JPG

Water pump gasket. As with the back side cover, the gasket has a "built-in" sealer applied to the front surface

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_14_06.JPG

Water pump bolts torqued to 10 Nm

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_14_07.JPG

New o-rings installed in water pump housing after being dipped in coolant and pipes inserted towards rear manifold

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_14_08.JPG

Oops, forgot to install the knock sensors. Torque to 20 Nm. Also got the cam speed sensors loosely installed. Forgot to order new o-rings for these as well.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_14_09.JPG

As I'm preparing my hopefully final order with Open Road BMW, I was looking up the front axle bearing part number, and it unfortunately looks like I have to order a whole new support bracket...

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/axlebearing.JPG

So I'm going to see if I can remove the existing bearing from the axle to see what condition it is in. I'm unclear what BMW means by "grooved ball bearing" as the race in the support bracket is smooth.

Maybe you can source a new bearing from Grainger or someplace else.

Loving the continuous snappy torque wrench porn. Definitely on my list of things to buy.

The old bearing is currently on good condition. I'll try to save it getting it off the front axle. If not, I'll try sourcing it elsewhere. The entire housing with a new bearing is $72 or so.

Got the valve covers on. 8 Nm on all bolts and a dab of sealant at the 6 critical spots on each side. This is so much easier with the engine out of the car!

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_15_01.JPG

New o-rings for the cam speed sensors

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_15_02.JPG

Front end at this stage

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_15_03.JPG

Rear coolant manifold installed. All 6 bolts torqued to 10 Nm. Spark plugs torqued to 23 Nm and coils dropped in as well. Those grey spots on the valve covers are from the sealant the last time I did the valve cover gaskets and had to fumble in the back against the firewall. I'll be sure to get that cleaned up tomorrow. :D

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_15_04.JPG

It's so close, I can almost hear it roaring @ 6500rpm!

I think that what BMW means in the description is you can not replace just the bearing that the only way to install a new bearing is to buy the housing with the bearing and seal already installed.

Item 14 is for the complete assembly not just the bearing.

That's how I read it as well. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't understand why it has to be that way since the bearing slides right out of the housing.

When I removed my right front axle I had a really hard time and when it finally came loose, it pulled the bearing with it. Here's the picture of the "assembly" once I got it out.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_9_01.JPG

Looking at that image again, I'm thinking I'll be very lucky if I can get that bearing off the shaft without destroying it. Not sure why that front drive axle was stuck to the bearing like that. It took a LOT of force to break it free from the housing.

I hear you! Gotta get through the transmission rebuild as well first though. I've never done a transmission before, but you guys keep telling me the 5HP24 is a walk in the park. Hopefully with your help, I'll manage!

And then there's that pesky from axle bearing stuck on the axle. I suppose I better dealing with that sooner rather than later so see what I'll end up having to do to get it working again.

But I'm a glass is half full kinda a guy, so I'm still optimistic I'll have the 4.6 back on the road by early June!

JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource

that link pretty much has all the information you will need to get that ZF back to factory spec :)

Before all the electronics we tested engines before we dropped them in. Is there a version of that now?

Very cool link bigblac! I have come across some of the links from that page, but it is great to have a "'launch page" if you will and there are some awesome links!

This evening I pretty much just to got intake pieces and brackets cleaned. They were extremely oily all of them.

Belt tensioners/pulleys/brackets

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_16_01.JPG

Shot of the rear intake cover to capture where the brackets go

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_16_03.JPG

Intake pieces all cleaned up. Took like 30 mins to get the TB throat cleaned up. Boy that brown film of grime was hard to get off, even with brake cleaner.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_16_04.JPG

Also got the front axle bearing soaking in pb blaster. I plan to use a large open wrench on top of the bearing and then give it a go with the sledge

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_16_02.JPG

There has to be an interference fit between the bearing and the housing or else the bearing will be spinning inside the housing. Could be that when they assemble the bearing and housing, the bearing was cooled and the housing heated so that the bearing would shrink and the housing will expand and you could just slip the bearing into the housing.

I got the bearing situation resolved I believe, but let me back up and wrap up the engine first.

Intake gaskets installed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_01.JPG

Torque the 10 nuts to 15 Nm

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_02.JPG

Installed new hose on rear manifold cover. The original one had a zip tie on it, so I figured I'd do the same

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_03.JPG

Route that house under the coolant pipes when installing

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_04.JPG

Make sure the long pipe fits into the hole in the front end of the manifold

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_06.JPG

Torque torx bolts to 8 Nm

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_05.JPG

Fitting new hoses to match the old

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_07.JPG

Installed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_08.JPG

Front cover and TB installed along with accessory bracket and dip stick

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_09.JPG

New crank bolt installed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_10.JPG

New crank pulley bolts torqued to 22 Nm

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_11.JPG

Vacuum hoses routed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_12.JPG

Rear view

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_13.JPG

Front view

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_14.JPG

That's pretty much it for the engine for now!

Circling back to the front axle bearing. I was able to remove it from the axle using my shop press and a couple of pieces of iron that would fit between the bearing and CV housing

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_15.JPG

Bearing all cleaned up. Still nice and tight

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_16.JPG

Axle shaft

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_17.JPG

I re-packed the bearing and installed it into the housing using a 1 7/8" socket and sledge

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_18.JPG

New axle seal installed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_19.JPG

And axle shaft installed. Used a block of 4x4 and a sledge.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_20.JPG

So now it's finally time to tear down the transmission!

First I removed the gear position sensor. I need to get some wireloom to replace that old cracked up one on there now.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_21.JPG

New I flipped the tranny over. It was a little on the heavy side, but I managed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_22.JPG

Pan removed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_23.JPG

Inside of pan doesn't look too bad. This is before I touched it with anything. So it is still pretty much as clean as it was when I last had it off some 1000 miles ago or something like that.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_24.JPG

Valve body

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_25.JPG

Electrical connector pushed into housing after removing retaining clip

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_26.JPG

Input and output shaft speed sensors pulled

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_27.JPG

After loosening all the large head T27 bolts, the whole assembly lifts right off

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_28.JPG

Main housing at this point

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_29.JPG

I next used a punch to drive the pin out of the selector shaft

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_30.JPG

I then used a 1/4" extension and cardboard to pry the oil lines loose.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_31.JPG

Here they are along with the selector shaft

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_32.JPG

Next I removed the circlips from the 2 pressure springs

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_33.JPG

I was unable to pull the sealing sleeves out from the base of the bores using a pick took. They are in there real good. I can rotate them, just not pull them out. May need to fashion a better tool for this purpose.

That's it for now.

Too late, I know, but I’d strongly advise against levering against the valve block sealing face to remove the pipes. It’s better to feed a piece of cloth under the pipe, wrap the ends together and then pull.

This is the tool I made up to remove the C & D clutch rubber jump tubes :

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...TubePuller.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ubePuller2.jpg

You’ll have noticed that the two circlips for the anti-gravity springs don’t sit in grooves and just rely on friction with the bore to keep them in place. When you replace them they need to sit at a depth of around 4mm into the hole.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...retention1.jpg

Phil

Excellent suggestion. Wish I had thought of that! I was being careful with the cardboard and folded it over twice (4 layers). But yeah, not levering against the surface would have been much better!

I did notice those circlips holding the springs in place were not in a groove. Was kinda odd. Appreciate the tip on the 4mm spacing for when I put them back together again!

I did manage to get those grommets out with a little more patience and dedication using my pick tool! Here they are along with a few other pieces I removed. In hindsight (reading further ahead in the 5HP24 repair manual), I probably would have been better of not removing the detent spring seen in the picture below as it will now need to be re-aligned during re-assembly, which looks to be a bit of a pain from reading section 1.4.9 of the manual, possibly requiring 2 special tools. :(

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_34.JPG

With the grommets removed, I stood the transmission on its end with the transfer case bolts resting on some 6x6 blocks that allow the output shaft to drop between them. I then removed the bolts holding the bell housing the the main housing. There are 6 bolts that you don't want to undo yet as they hold the intermediate plate in place.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_35.JPG

So here's the bell housing/intermediate plate along with tower II which contains clutches A and B I believe.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_36.JPG

So here's looking down at tower I which is removed next. Before removing it, there's a snap ring that comes off pretty easy with needle nose pliers and a screwdriver

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_37.JPG

There's still more stuff down there. Some planetary gears and such. :D

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_39.JPG

So after the planetary gears are removed, the parking lock gear is revealed.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_40.JPG

Next the transmission is flipped over and the output assembly is removed from the housing. This reveals 12 counter sunk bolts which can now be removed.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_41.JPG

Unfortunately I managed to strip the last one (figures), so I'll need to drill it out before the housing will be completely void of guts.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_42.JPG

So here's everything that was removed laid out in the order it was removed from right to left. There are 4 roller bearings visible which I have labeled 1 - 4.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_43.JPG

Close up of bearing 1.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_44.JPG

Close up of bearing 2. Rollers looks pretty shot.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_45.JPG

Close up of bearing 3.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_46.JPG

Close up of bearing 4.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_17_47.JPG

Next up is cleaning the shop floor. Taking the transmission apart made a terrible mess. I should have planned better and anticipated all that spilled oil as I was taken the housing apart.

Wow!

You are brave!

Foolish/brave -- such a fine line... :rofl:

Why did you take the transmission apart? Was there a problem with it? Obviously, with the way bearing #2 looked, it wasn't a bad thing.

BTW: for drilling out bolts, there's nothing like left handed drill bits and a good extractor set. I have a Mac Tools set (P/N: MEX35) Scored it off ebay.

I also succombed to your Snappy torque wrench porn and bought an atech2fr100a 1/4 torque wrench w/angle torque capability. I don't think my wife is going to let me view this thread anymore...:D

Lol, ain't that the truth! :D

Yes it had a problem. For the last 800 miles or so, it would always start up in TRANS FAILSAFE MODE. Once warn, I could shut down the engine and restart, and it would be ok again, except for the harsh 2-1 downshift. For the last 400 miles or so, it would start in TRANS FAILSAFE MODE even when started warm/hot.

You'll love it!

Good idea about using left handed drill bits. I guess with those the bolt might come out before using the extractor.

You will have noticed that ZF use tamper-proof screws to retain the rooster comb detent spring in an attempt to prevent DIYers from removing it :thumbup:

Regarding the 12 countersunk screws retaining the F brake drum, I find it’s much easier to slacken them off first, before the rest of the transmission is stripped i.e. when all the weight is still in the transmission. The torque setting for these twelve screws is only 23Nm and clearly it’s the friction at the countersunk face that makes them difficult to remove. I therefore strike each screwhead a couple of times with a hammer & drift to break this friction ‘seal’ before attempting to remove them. They then generally come loose without a problem.

Phil

Edit - Rather than drill down into the body of the screw (and risk drilling right through the clutch piston) you only need to ‘pop’ the countersunk head off by using a fairly large diameter drill just to the depth of the start of the countersink.

Lol, I guess that's what I get for using my torx set with hollow centers (tamper proof kind) instead of a regular set. There was oil sitting in the void of the screw heads, so I didn't even notice the centers.

That's exactly what the issue was. There was very little weight left in the transmission housing, so I had to hold it down with my torso while loosening it, made for an awkward angle.

Appreciate the tip on using a slightly oversized bit to just pop the head!

Just drill the bad boy out, seperate both sections and then grab on to the nub with some vice grips and remove what's left of the stud. they shouldn't torqued down too tight. *hopefully* you can save the threads into the base :)

Thanks once again for all the images and text on your project. It will become a "HOW TO" I am sure for lots of people reaching the 10 years+ and 100K mileage milestone. The challenges and issues you are addressing are ones we all will face sooner and not later. Thanks for all the efforts of sharing your epic adventure.

Good luck down there and hopefully Afton Mtn weather will be kind to you this spring.

Got the bolt out!

Drilled using a bit slightly larger than the threads of the bolt. 5/16 I believe.

Here's just before it popped the top

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_19_01.JPG

And here's the F brake drum with what's left of the bolt exposed, which wasn't much

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_19_02.JPG

Since the bolt was loose in the thread, all I had to do was to tap down slightly with a flat-blade screwdriver and turn it right out

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_19_03.JPG

Here's the bolt

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_19_04.JPG

And the casing. Everything is in perfect shape with no evidence of the mishap

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_19_05.JPG

I also took a closer look at the rooster comb detent spring, which I hadn't cleaned yet, and there was a clear outline of where the bolt heads had been, so I went ahead and re-installed it, lining up the bolt heads with the outlines extending out from the 2 holes. I think I'm within 0.1 mm. I guess when I get to that stage during re-assembly, I'll see if I can confirm that somehow.

The rest of my time this evening was spent cleaning up the oil mess everywhere. So now I'm ready to begin cleaning and inspect all the parts!

glad to hear you got the bolt out with no probs. pays to take your time and have some patience.

Well done Stunt!

glad it didn't turn into a nightmare!

<cough> quit slackin' off and get back to work, Stunt! <cough>

:D

Lol, I know. I sort of have a good excuse through. I really want to get the PTO slip clutch fixed on my chipper so that I can get it out of the shop and dedicate all my table space to the transmission, and I need to use the chipper this weekend for some land clearing I need to do.

So I'm going a bit off topic with these next few pics. Here's the new clutch housing after being installed on the existing shaft with a new u-joint, which was a complete pain (both to get the old one off and the new one on). You can also see the new 4-clutch pack here and the old rusted out clutch housing. If only the 5HP24 was this simple. :D

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_29_01.JPG

And here's the beast of a chipper it mounts to. Can't wait to get that monster out of the shop.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_29_02.JPG

A little further back view showing the 5HP24. I did get the A and B clutches separated, but I don't want to continue until I'm done with that chipper and can begin cleaning the parts and lay them out in order properly.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_5_29_03.JPG

And here's the chipper on the tractor for perspective. It alone weights about the same as a 3 series. :D

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/vermeer5.jpg

Hmm... that's the first time I have ever seen a green / yellow BMW ??

Here's another one :D

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/jdbmw.JPG

In all seriousness, I hope to really get going on the transmission this Sunday. I'm longing to get the X back on the road and I don't want to leave the A/C components exposed too much longer with all the humidity summer brings.

that was awesome!! look forward to seeing the victory pictures!!

lol at the John Deere. My brother manages three JD dealerships in W. Nebraska. I used to run a JD sticker on the back of my race car...mainly due to my frequent agricultural excursions.

I also cleared some land over Memorial Day weekend. Turned some dead trees on the family farm into 5+ cords of firewood (with a metric butt-ton of help!). Got to fire off my new Stihl MS311 chainsaw w/the 20" bar. Made short work of most of the trees I encountered.

Love the way you organized the transmission on that fold out table. I might just have to buy a table like that now!

I got the A/B clutches mostly disassembled.

Here are the individual pieces. I have red arrows by the parts that looks suspect so far.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_01.JPG

B clutch back

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_02.JPG

4 of the B clutch steels

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_05.JPG

All 6 B clutch friction plates

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_06.JPG

A clutch pack

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_03.JPG

3 of the A clutch steels

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_08.JPG

All 6 A clutch friction plates

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_09.JPG

Here are the other main parts of Tower II

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_11.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_12.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_13.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_14.JPG

This is the only other component that I'm seeing potentially being a concern. Are those embedded particles in the copper band normal? What do you guys think?

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_15.JPG

And here's another shot of the bearing

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_16.JPG

I'll look up the thickness tolerances on the steels and friction plates, but they are all within a few thousands of an inch and look in good shape, at least to my very untrained eye. :)

This bearing is shot I hope you don't intend to reuse it.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_16.JPG

^ I agree some good pits on those rollar bearrings.

Yep, definitely plan to replace that pitted needle bearing!

On the clutch packs, it looks like the way to measure each one, is to do the whole stack at a time with 200N of pressure applied. Then the height of each pack is measured as Mx where x stands for the clutch pack (A-F).

One then has to determine the installation space Ex, which is the height inside each cylinder (Wf + F) where F is the thickness of the base of the cylinder.

So Ex = Wx + F and the test value (Px) = Ex - Mx.

In the case of clutch pack A, Pa should be between 3.75 and 5.75mm. The sample value given in the repair manual for Ma is 26.65mm.

I'm unclear about the Sa value (3.0 mm is the sample value given for clutch A). This is used to calculate the final clutch clearance (Pa - Sa), which should be 1.95 - 2.25 mm in the case of clutch A.

As far as how to apply 200N to each clutch pack before obtaining the Mx value, I suppose the easiest method would be to place 20.4 kg (45 lbs) worth of weights on top of each clutch pack before measuring?

Guess I'll need to put the micrometer away and get out the dial gauge. I wonder if I can cheat and just use the micrometer directly on each clutch pack to get the Mx value? I figured I can squeeze the pack together with my fingers and then measure the thickness with the micrometer? Maybe I'll try it both ways and see if I get the same result.

The importance of the 200N load is that the wavy plate is only partially compressed by this force so unfortunately there is no other way of determining the stack height other than to apply the correct load. I simply use a 20.4kg weight and a vernier height gauge (on a flat surface) for the measurements.

Sx is just the thickness of the snap ring. The snap rings are selectable from a range of available thicknesses – ten in the case of the A-clutch, varying from 1.80mm to 3.60mm - and this is what is used to produce the correct clearance.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...Clearances.jpg

Phil

Thanks Phill! That makes perfect sense now on what Sx is.

So would you agree with my assessment that the friction disc and steels for clutches A and B look fine and can be reused (assuming of course that I can get the proper Lx value using nothing larger than the 3.60mm (A) and 4.6mm (B) snap rings for clutches A and B respectively)?

Also, are the particles I see imbedded in the copper (brass?) band on disc carrier 72.190 normal/acceptable? Here's that pic again:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_2_15

Nearly all of the phosphor bronze bushes in the 5HP24 also double-up as hydraulic seals so any signs of wear (increased clearance) is bad news. The bush in this carrier however is just a ‘radial steady’ for the B-clutch drum & C-clutch hub and its condition isn’t therefore critical. The bore should measure around 30 or 40 microns over 66mm so if it’s not too worn I shouldn’t worry about it.

Regarding the clutch pack clearances, if you have an early version of the Repair Manual, the chances are that the recommended clearances have now changed. Also, different models of the 5HP24 have different numbers of friction plates in the same clutch pack depending on the required torque capacity. Take for example the D-brake setting specification. Your Manual may quote 1058 700 067 ‘Version B’ which is the old 4 plate Jaguar arrangement. Your ‘034’ model for the 4.6is has 5 plates in the D-brake (i.e. ‘Version D’) and the latest setting specification is 1058 700 143 and the clearances have changed (1.93 to 2.22mm for new plates, 1.93 to 2.38mm for bedded-in ones).

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps974ff3d1.jpg

To be honest I’d avoid becoming too distracted from the important stuff if I were you. The fact is if the plates aren’t worn then the clearance settings will not have changed from when the snap rings were selectively fitted at the factory. Any small changes will have been compensated for by the long-term adaptions in your transmission ECU (fixing shift times through modulating the clutch pressures) so, provided the plates are in good condition - which yours are* - I personally wouldn’t worry about this aspect. I’d say it was more important to get everything apart to check all the seals, etc. and find the cause of the failsafe message.

Phil

*Typically A-clutch friction plates measure 1.55mm thickness & B-clutch ones 1.61mm. You’re measuring 0.061” and 0.064” (will you guys ever go metric?) so yours are spot on.

Thanks again Phil for your excellent advice!

Yes, my manual is very old, dated 98/08/01 which I believe translates to 1/8/1998 for Americans. :D

I agree with you the metric system should be embraced here in the states, but I doubt that will happen in my lifetime. I was strange coming over here and having to adjust from using the metric system to standard.

Ok, I'll not worry about the friction plates then and move on to disassembling the rest of the transmission. Hopefully I'll find a direct cause of the failsafe message!

I picked up a 8' stainless work bench top that was on sale at Sears, and will be building a solid frame for it tomorrow so that I can move my transmission disassembly operation to a proper place. I think my old office desk has outlived its use for this purpose. The lamination is starting to come off big time and the surface is very uneven. That 8' folding table if too flimsy for any real automotive work, but great for lots of other stuff.

Yes, I built my workbench from scratch (from wood but with a metal sheet top) and that was specifically so I could provide enough space to store the winter tyres/wheels for my Range Rover underneath. Unfortunately I opted for a mild steel rather than a stainless steel top (I’m such a cheapskate) so if I haven’t used it for a while I do have to clean off a surface layer of rust!

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...08/5HP24_A.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...08/5HP24_B.jpg

Phil

Looks good Phil!

Speaking of rust, once I clean the parts, should I coat them in something to prevent surface rust? Around where I live it gets very humid in the summer time and I only run the A/C in the shop when I'm in there.

Maybe surface rust is a non-issue (obviously not the aluminum parts) but not 100% sure on the rest. At the pace I'm going, the cleaned pieces are likely to sit for a while before final assembly. :D

I must admit that I tend not to clean the old fluid off the steel parts until I know I’ll be refitting them within a few days. Anything over 45% relative humidity will cause these components to rust scarily quickly – especially things like the clutch steel plates & drums/hubs. Once cleaned I ‘paint’ all the steel parts with fresh transmission fluid (also a good opportunity to inspect the parts thoroughly) and bag them if I have to store them for any length of time.

Phil

I should have mentioned, in case it isn’t obvious, that the friction plates in the A & C clutches are the same part and the friction plates in the B, D & E clutches are all the same part so the plate thicknesses already mentioned apply to these clutches too. The F-brake friction plates (the F-brake assembly, incidentally, is nicked straight from the old ZF 5HP30 and hence has part numbers prefixed by ‘1055’ rather than ‘1058’) should measure around 1.60mm.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...psb0c4773b.jpg

Phil

Thanks again Phil for the expert advice! I'll wait to clean the parts then until I'm ready. Glad I asked!

Started on the shop bench tonight. Here's the stainless work surface. It is 96" x 24" and 1.5" thick (double 3/4" MDF core). It comes in at around 150lbs, so very hard to move around by myself.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_4_01.JPG

I plan to add another 12" (double 3/4 MDF core as well) at the back so the total worksurface will be 96" x 36".

I have cleared a previously unused back corner of the shop for the shop bench. There's just over 96" between the red truss and air compressor, which stick out about 36", so it should be a perfect fit.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_4_03.JPG

I started gluing the end structures as seen here from the zoomed out view of bay 4 of the shop.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_4_02.JPG

It will be so nice to finally have a work bench in the shop after 14 years! Don't know what I was thinking not doing this before...

Shot across the shop while I had the camera out :D

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_4_04.JPG

And outside shop. I added the 2 16' W x 36' D bays last year and they are already stuffed. Lol

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_4_05.JPG

I am jealous!

I have a little 3 hp IR compressor. Plenty for my little air tools, IR Ti2135 gun & 1105 ratchet.

Thanks for all the updates & pics!!

I would like just 1 of those bays and I`ll be a happy . stunt thx again for all the great pics. it looks interesting to rebuild tranny`s ,but alot of patience though.

Wish my garage looked like Stunt's!!

Thanks for documenting all this Stunt and to Phil for sharing his extensive expertise.

Is rebuilding automatic transmissions a hobby or career, Phil?

Nice SS workbench top, Stunt. I really like the one I bought to sit on top of the scratch and dent Lista cabinets I bought from Motorhead Extraordinaire (if you have seen the 'junkyard dogs' section, you're missing out on some killer deals!).

Great thread! 5*'s!

All I had time to do tonight was to sand the edges of the 2 96" x 12" MDF panels that will sandwich together to form the back part of the bench top. After sanding it, I spread on liberal amounts of joint compound.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_5_01.JPG

Once that dries, I'll hit it and the surface that will become the top with some 220 grit, then apply several coats of gloss primer followed by several coats of metallic paint. I might change my mind on that metallic paint if it is not durable. I'll test it after a few coats have dried.

Decided against using that Valspar metallic paint and instead use some Rustoleum White Enamel. I got about 5 coats of sealer down, sanded it with 800 grit, and just got down the first coat of Enamel. I sure wish Sears had a 96" x 36" instead of just the "skinny" 96" x 24". Would have been so much easier than having to create this 12" extension "by hand"...

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_7_01.JPG

The base of the work bench is mostly done. Still need to add some cleats where the 2 tops meet. That's a 2x10 running across the top front that I had laying around for years. Glad I finally got to use it. And yes, I'll be pulling that 3-pt broadcaster/spreader out of there. :D

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_7_02.JPG

The lower shelf will be a single sheet of 3/4" MDF that will drop into the space provided and be flush with the lower 2x6s. Everything is glued and screwed together and the 4 horizontals are glued and bolted. I'd like to think this will be plenty solid!

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_7_03.JPG

The base is 90" wide so there will be a 3" overhang on either side (and the front). I plan to add a Wilton Tradesman 1780A vise (bad boy 110 lbs 8") at the front left corner, so that overhang should work just right for securing the base.



http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_7_04.JPG

I promise we will return to the topic at hand shortly! Just got to get this bench done so that I have a proper place to tear down the transmission. :D

I'll also have to get used to that crazy blast every 45 mins for the solenoid drain valve on the compressor. It's way loud!

Extend your compressor drain through the wall to move the noise outside. That is what I did. Hate it when you are concentrating on something and the damn drain goes off.

Hey that's a great idea! You're right about it being very annoying when it goes off when you least expect it!

Nice again!

Finally got the shop bench mostly done. Lower rear section installed. Glued and screwed from above.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_9_01.JPG

Upper rear section. Screwed from below (and glued)

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_9_02.JPG

Stainless front section!

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_9_03.JPG

Tranny parts moved over

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_9_04.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_9_05.JPG

Still have to do the lower shelf but that can wait!

how do you do it I wish I was that talented.I`m mechanicly incline but never get into ripping stuff apart like that though.

God dayamn, that looks like a severely robust bench Stunt. Do you plan on putting your x5 on top of it. You do know they sell 1/7 scale replicas of our cars for display purposes?

How much was the top anyway? It looks great.

There's a bench that will be there when we all are long gone.

Haha, yes I think it will be plenty solid for my needs!

The 96" x 24" x 1.5" top was on sale at Sears for $179. Normally $249. I had most of the wood laying around except for a couple of the 2x6s, the 2 sheets of 3/4" MDF and fasteners. So I got a little over $300 in it total. Not bad I think.

I'll need to get the PVC pieces next to fabricate the tools to fully disassemble the carriers in my shop press.

Very very nice!

I'm even jealous of your bench.

I worked on tearing down the transmission some more tonight. Here's what it looks like now:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_10_01.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_10_02.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_10_03.JPG

The clutches, brakes and carriers

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_10_04.JPG

The pump. Everything came apart with a few easy blows with a plastic faced hammer, except for the bearing you see. I pressed that out using a 3/4" drive 1 1/8 socket. It was close to a perfect fit for the task.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_10_05.JPG

Solenoids

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_10_06.JPG

Main valve body
http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_10_07.JPG

Main plate. This thing is very nasty as seen by the dark surface

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_10_08.JPG

Pair of roller bearings that look to be in excellent shape

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_10_09.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_10_10.JPG

Now both planetary gears have these grooves in them. I *think* that's normal given how even they are across all 4 gears in both units.

EDIT: I'll have to inspect that nick below the red arrow. I just noticed that now from looking at my post.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_10_11.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_10_12.JPG

Here's the output ball bearing. I need to pick up some "real" snap ring pliers to get these out. The assortment of what I currently have aren't up to the task.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_10_13.JPG

So with the transmission almost completely torn down at this point, I haven't really come across anything obvious that would explain the failsafe message I was getting. Maybe as I complete the disassembly of the valve bodies I'll discover something, or maybe once I complete taking the carriers apart?

You Sir Have a big set of balls :thumbup:When Can I send Over Ours

Not sure what you mean by ‘carriers’. Obviously the next step is to get each of the six clutch pistons out to check their seals. Do the rest of the clutch plates look okay? You need to be careful to identify which way up the 1st gear sprag (one-way clutch) is so that you don’t reassemble it upside down resulting in it locking in the wrong direction.

Phil

P.S. The notches in the outside diameters of the gears are identification marks from the factory. When gears have been meshing together for thousands of miles it’s clearly important to reassemble them the same way around otherwise they have to bed in again and the result is noise.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps1b230700.jpg

"Sir Have a big set of balls http://www.xoutpost.com/images/smilies/thumbup.gifWhen Can I send Over Ours?"

Those pix, on that nice steel table, are world class car porn, for sure. I don't think I've ever seen an auto tranny broken down like that. Educational even for a shade tree guy like me who could never take on this project.

QFT & set to music!

AC/DC-Big Balls Music Video - YouTube

:iagree:

Stopped by Lowe's on my way home this afternoon and picked up a 3" and 4" PVC cleanout adapter as well as a 6" PVC sewer Tee.

I cut out both sides of the 3" cleanout adapter and pressed down the cup spring on brake F. The "legs" started to spread, so I used a c-clamp to prevent that from happening. Worked like a champ and it was $3.53!

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_11_01.JPG

I then used a pair of allen wrenches through the bolt holes to push out the piston. The sealing lip appears to be in good shape from what I can tell.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_11_02.JPG

Using the same 3" cleanout adapter, I pressed down the cup spring for brake E and took out the split stop ring.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_11_03.JPG

I then used compressed air to pop out piston E. The 2 O-rings appear to be in good shape but will of course be replaced anyway.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_11_04.JPG

Clutch C was next, again using the 3" adapter.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_11_05.JPG

Compressed air once again popped the piston right out and this O-ring also looks ok.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_11_06.JPG

Next I pressed out the sun wheel shaft using a 1-1/8" 3/4" drive socket. The 2 O-rings and rectangular section rings looks ok.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_11_07.JPG

Clutch B was up next. This time using the 4" cleanout adapter. Learning from my earlier mistake with the 3", I only cut out one side this time and sure enough, no need to use a C-clamp to keep the legs from spreading.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_11_08.JPG

Compressed air once again popped out the piston. All 3 O-rings appear ok

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_11_09.JPG

Back to brake F, I removed the snap ring, but I'm not sure how to get out the roller bearing without damaging it. It's in there pretty good. It looks to be in good shape, but I figured it would be best to get out out before cleaning the parts.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_6_11_10.JPG

The 6" PVC sewer tee was a little too big for pressing down the brake D cup spring. Tomorrow I'll pick up a 6" sewer pipe which I believe will be just right since it slips inside the tee. I'll also splurge and drop $3.53 for another 3" cleanout and cut out only 1 side for when it comes time to re-assemble as well as for pressing down the oil dam in clutch A.

Once I get piston D out, I can then inspect the 2 O-rings on it. And finally I can push out the busing from the D/E housing.

So still nothing obvious to explain the failsafe message but I still have pistons A and D to go as well as the valve body.

Sorry, I meant cylinders.

Quote:

Do the rest of the clutch plates look okay?

I haven't inspected them closely or measured yet, but they appear ok and all the metals have the machine marks clearly visible.

Quote:

You need to be careful to identify which way up the 1st gear sprag (one-way clutch) is so that you don’t reassemble it upside down resulting in it locking in the wrong direction.

Thanks. Yes I noticed it would only turn in the one direction prior to dis-assembly.

Quote:

P.S. The notches in the outside diameters of the gears are identification marks from the factory. When gears have been meshing together for thousands of miles it’s clearly important to reassemble them the same way around otherwise they have to bed in again and the result is noise.

Good deal, that's what I was hoping.