All in - pulling the 4.6 engine and trans to fix oil leaks once and for all
 

Hey guys,

Figured I'd start a thread to document pulling my 4.6 engine and transmission to fix my engine oil leaks and transmission issues and ask questions along the way as they arise.

I purchased the truck about 1 year ago with 134k on the clock. It now has 137k on it. That's right, it has been down for most of the last year for various repairs. I have done the following repair/maintenance over the last 12 months:

• Replaced valve cover gaskets and grommets
• Replaced spark plugs
• Replaced filters (air, oil, fuel, transmission, cabin)
• Replaced engine oil twice
• Replaced differential oil (front and rear)
• Replaced transmission oil
• Replaced transfer case oil
• Drilled out oil pan drain plug and installed TimeSert and new plug
• Replaced radiator
• Replaced water pump and thermostat
• Replaced all coolant hoses
• Replaced transmission coolant bypass valve
• Replaced accessory belts

I also did various cosmetic things, like replaced front and rear lights and side markers, as well as installing an aftermarket stereo with Zapco amps, so I really want to keep this X5 for the long haul.

Anyway, I stated prepping for removing the engine this weekend. I have the Bentley manual and have pretty much been using that as my guide.

I did find it next to impossible to remove the rear bolt on the power steering pump. In order to get to it, I have to remove the alternator cooling duct, and in order to remove it, I have to pull the bumper cover and bumper. At this point, I think I just might remove the rest of the front clip for easier access.

Here are some pics of the progress from this weekend:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5enginepull-01.JPG

Here's a shot of what has been removed so far. I need to make some more room... Lol. Also, the red arrow is pointing to the stiffening plate. All that oil is just from driving it around 500 miles.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5enginepull-02.JPG

Shot from the front

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5enginepull-03.JPG

Shot from below. It doesn't really show how bad the oil leak issue is, but you can get an idea.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5enginepull-04.JPG

Another shot from below showing the power steering pump resting on the front cross member.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5enginepull-05.JPG

Once I get the engine out, what should I inspect/replace? I'm going to do the timing chain guides for sure as they are definitely due at 137k!

I'm hoping I can reuse my valve cover gaskets as they have only been on for just over 2k miles.

Other than the oil leaks, engine is running strong, so I wonder if it is worth the trouble to pull the heads?

With the engine out, I pretty much want to do everything I can to ensure it will run good for at least another 100k with no leaks or other surprises if I can.

Nice garage and lift.

WOW!

I wish i had access to that kind of set up, I'd do all my work.

Good luck!

wow,
best of luck!

While you have the engine out: timing tensioner, Vanos seals replaced, check valley pan gasket, gasket for intake manifold, front and rear gaskets (intake to manifold, CCV to manifold) You can re-use the VCG but I would put new ones in there.
Wish I have access to a lift. Any plan on removing the brake caliper cover?

Why would you want to pull the heads?
If you are doing the timing chain guides, I'd replace the VANOS seals also.
Replace these:
Valley Pan Gasket
CCV hoses and oil separator, plus clean the drain tube
Rear coolant manifold gaskets (seen this often on E38 and E39, so should apply to X5 as well)
Lubricate your steering knuckle
Engine mounts?

Appreciate the feedback and complements on the garage! So here's what I got so far:

• Timing Chain Guides
• Timing Tensioner
• Vanos Seals
• Intake Manifold Gasket
• Front Manifold Gasket (Intake to Manifold)
• Rear Manifold Gasket (CCV to Manifold)
• Rear coolant manifold gasket - is this the same as CCV to Manifold Gasket?
• Valley Pan Gasket
• CCV hoses
• Oil Seperator
• Replace VCGs
• Lubricate steering knuckle
• Check/Replace Engine Mounts
• Clean drain tube

I'll leave the heads on then.

And yes, I will pull those cheesy brake caliber covers. They are left overs from the previous owner.

Nice progress in the year you've had it.

Your list looks solid, I'm guessing front and rear suspension parts are solid? Ball joints, thrust arms, wishbones, etc front and rear look good? Rear airbags are original or replaced already (if original I would check condition of rubber and perhaps replacement Arnott preventatively at $200 for pair). Front/rear shocks in good shape?

Didn't want to add to your list but your engine list looks SOLID! I like your Depo's.

Rear coolant manifold. Gaskets are item #2 in picture. This is on the back of the engine. http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...36&hg=11&fg=35
http://realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/d/j/8.png
Removing it will make it so much easier to replace the hoses that connect the oil separator to the drain pipe. Oh, which aren't on your list yet.
Add to list, oil separator - drain pipe hoses. Everything on this page needs to be cleaned or replaced. RealOEM.com * BMW E53 X5 4.6is Crankcase-Ventilation/oil separator
http://realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/t/x/61.png

Where in VA? I'd love to watch someone who knows what they are doing to learn from on these things.

Are you pulling the transmission? I'd consider the front & rear main seal and I'd also look into torque converter longevity.

I know some TQ are bulletproof & some aren't I'd hate to leave it in & have the darn thing fail shortly thereafter.

Excellent write-up and pics Stunt, like others I love the garage and lift! I agree with you 1000%, I have a 2002 4.6is and the oil leaks are embarrassing. I haven't had a vehicle leak oil and leave oil stains in my driveway since I bought my first car back in 1983, a 1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass! I like how you put the arrow in the pic pointing to the stiffener plate, BMW should come clean and call it what it really is, an oil drip pan...lol! I took mine out after I bought mine to clean it, there was about an 1/8th" mixture of oil and road sand on it, I used up a whole box of SOS pads cleaning it! I think it's totally asinine that in the 21st Century BMW can't design a vehicle (any BMW, they all leak) that won't leak oil all over your driveway! My engine looks just like yours, always wet and soaked in oil in the bottom front, let us know where the leaks are coming from. I tried but couldn't tell where it was coming from, even after several power washes with my pressure washer.

I was the first person at the dealership to fix the leaking rear main on the E90's magnesium block. I think the leak showed up right around 1000 miles. Apparently the rubber seal that works on an aluminium block doesn't work on a magnesium block. They had Wurth come up with a special type of RTV as well. My favorite part was all the warnings throughout the instructions, HAND TOOLS ONLY!
Yet another reason not to buy the first model year...

Suspension components all appear in excellent shape. I did notice some play in the front outer right CV joint, where the other 7 are solid. I'll investigate further once I get the engine out (I'll have to pull the prop shafts regardless).

They are original I think. I'll check them out. Thanks for the tip.

I believe so. Car has a very solid feel on the road, both cruising down the Interstate and having fun on the mountain back roads I live on.

Thanks for those links and pics! I'll update my list.

I'm located in Afton, VA between Charlottesville and Waynesboro. You are certainly welcome to stop by. An extra pair of hands are always a plus!

Looking forward to your progress.

What capacity is you lift? Is the concrete normal slab thickness?

Pulling the transmission is a pre-requisite for getting the engine out, at least according to the Bentley manual. This suits me fine since it has issues too. When I start the car, I almost always get the "TRANS FAILSAFE PROG" message on the dash, and only have 1 forward gear and reverse. When the transmission is warn and I start the engine, I only get that message 50% of the time. I also often get the "kick in the back" on the 2-1 downshift when coming to a full stop at a light.

It all started after I did the transmission fluid drain and filter change last summer. The old oil was pretty nasty and there were some deposits in the pan, but nothing too crazy looking. I did top off the flying once in the fall, it was about a quart low, but that did not fix the problem. So yes, I plan to tear into the transmission as well. I have never done one before, so I'm a little hesitant to do it myself. I'm going to see about getting some quotes from local transmission shops on having it rebuilt. Not sure if they will provide a warranty since I'm the one that will be re-installing it...

That would be awesome. Yup I know where that is folks like in Madison.

One thing to note on the strengthener plate...make you you order new bolts for that as well if you havent already those are torque to yield. Changed mine last year and found that out from this site as well.

So where do the oil leaks come from on the E53 V-8 engines?:dunno:

I have not been into that section of the Bentley so didn't know it had to come apart. I'd 100% do the rear seal then and have that converter checked since it will be open.

Good luck!

quick note from the pic i saw, i don't think you want to lay the radiator fans flat, leave them vertical to prevent any viscous fluid leaking out from them or out of position which will ruin them. (not sure if the front Electrical fan has this setup but the other definitely does.)

The lift is rated for 9000 lbs. There's a support brace along the top between the 2 posts and also carries the hydraulic hose to the cylinder ram on the post opposite the one with the motor on it. The steel cables to sync the 2 rams also go through it.

As for slap thickness, it is around 10", so way more than the normal 6". This was not really by choice just because the guys the poured the slap were too lazy to put down enough #57 rock to bring the bottom to within 6" of finished grade.

I have had my Chevy dually on the lift many times. It weigh about 8,200 lbs empty, being crew cab long bed. So the X5 is nothing. :bustingup

Lol. I'm well aware of this. I have already been through 2 new sets. First time was when I did the transmission oil pan when changing the filter. The 2nd time was when I dropped the engine oil pan to fix the oil drain plug.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that when I order my 3rd set of 6 bolts, it will be the last set!

I too picked up on that from this forum.

Thanks! I'll stand it up as soon as I get home tonight.

Thanks for info.

Just got back from Autozone where I ordered this engine support beam for when I drop the transmission:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/oemenginebeam.JPG

I could have probably rigged something with a 4x4, but I think this will be much safer.

Also, the Bentley manual calls for disconnecting the fuel line at the fuel filter and putting a camp on it. Recalling how big a pain it was to pull the fuel tank shield to replace the fuel filter, I decided to skip this step. No problem at all disconnecting the fuel line at the engine. There was no residual fuel pressure when I did so. Of course the truck has been sitting for 2 weeks since the last time the ignition had been turned on, so that may have had something to do with it, but that saved a good 30 minutes of labor right there.

Updated list as follows:

• Timing Chain Guides: Deflection Rail 11311741777, Guide Rail 11311745406, Chain Tensioner Rail 11311741236, Chain Tensioner Rod 11317531813, O-ring 11421713597
• Upper timing case cover gaskets 11141741532, 11141741533
• Upper timing case gasket ring 11141736758
• Upper timing case O-rings 12141748398
• Lower timing case cover gasket set 11141436978
• Lower timing case Dowels (2) 11121726242
• Vanos Seals
• Intake Manifold Gasket (4) 11611433328
• Front Manifold Gasket (Intake to Manifold) 11611729727
• Rear Manifold Gasket (CCV to Manifold) 11611729728
• Rear Coolant manifold gasket (2) 11531731833
• Water Pump Rear Pipe O-rings 11531710048, 11531710055
• Valley Pan Gasket
• CCV hoses
• Oil Seperator 11151705237
• Oil Return Hose 11151438302
• Oil Return Hose 11157560068
• Vent hose 11157556837
• Vent hose 11157556838
• Replace VCGs
• Lubricate steering knuckle
• Check/Replace Engine Mounts
• Clean drain tube

Looking at realoem, I'm not sure if I should also be replacing the upper timing chain tensioners (11311435026 and 11311435027), and I'm not sure I'm seeing any Vanos "seals" per se.

From what I have read these are the way to go when doing Vanos:
G.A.S. BMW VANOS System Products

edit
Sorry not for N62.

That's for the M54 kit. Here is the link to Beisan directly with the M62tu kit and full repair instructions. Read the instructions before ordering, then decide what tools you want to purchase/rent at the same time as ordering.
Beisan Systems - Products
Instructions here:
Beisan Systems - Procedures - M62TU Vanos Procedure

I personally wouldn't worry about the upper tensioners, but then again, you will already be there so it can only help extend the amount of time before the front end needs to be looked at again :)

The 4.8 isn't N62 based?

edit

Sorry again, thought he had a later 4.8. kmn.

From another country virginia boy, good luck with your rebuild.

I have a brand new oil pump AND all parts in the oil pump diagram if you decide you want to buy one. I bought it to have VAC Motorsports perform the pump bolt fix, but after their inspection of the unit, they said the design was different and didn't require pinning.

Edit: The transmission filling is very specific about volume at a certain temperature. Might want to check that. Bentley is OK, but I'd recommend a BMW TIS dvd

Thanks for those links! $60 for the kit seems like a no-brainer with the engine out.

I'll rent the timing tool kit, especially since it includes the vanos press kit.

I'll be sure to take plenty of pics and post since it will be easy to shot at all angles with the engine on a stand. Will also detail the actual dropping on transmission and pulling of engine.

Man, this forum just rocks!

Thanks!

Yeah, I know the procedure is tricky. When I did it last summer, it was pretty hot, so by the time I got under the car with the engine running and having go through the gears and got the filler plug removed, the oil was probably too hot already. At least that is my theory as to why I was able to add almost a quart when I checked it a few months ago. Of course that time I wasn't able to put it through the gears due to the TRANS FAILSAFE PROG condition at startup. So yeah, the transmission is probably going to be a headache to deal with when I get to that point.

I'd have loved to just swap in a 6 speed manual, but it seems only Nick P has pulled this off and seems to be holding the CAD drawings for the adapter plates close to the vest.

Great write up! Also, nice shop! This is one of the main reasons as to why my fiancee drives a Lexus RX350...I think my next everyday driver will be an E53

Haha, and that's why my wife drives a 4Runner. 155k miles now. All I have to do is change the oil every 8k miles. No leaks of any kinds.

Is item 1 or 8 what is referred to as the valley pan gasket?

http://realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/r/j/70.png

I totally hear you...hehe...

I totally hear you...hehe...

I believe item 1.

I have a 95 Land Cruiser, the I6 headgasket had a flaw that failed at 170k. Even when Toyota f00ks up the damn thing runs forever. I spent 3k to r&r the hg/all teh while you are in theres and it now has 220k & runs like new.

I totally hear you...hehe...

Subscribed...this is gonna be an Epic rebuild from that parts list.

My 2002 4.6is engine look just like the OP's engine, always wet in the bottom front. So where do the oil leaks come from on the E53 V-8 engines?http://www.xoutpost.com/images/smilies/dunno.gif

I did mine chain when the timing cover leak got from a drip to drops on the garage floor.

Do you have a leak on the big PS hose running across the engine. I did that 2X. The 1st time was somewhere around 80K or so. The 2nd replacement hose went bad in less than 1.5 years

Was able to spend a little time after work getting some stuff done.

Pulled exhaust mid section. This was much easier than I thought. None of the bolts were frozen and the section just came right out.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5exhaust1.JPG

I wasn't sure what the rear mufflers were going to do, but they just stayed put.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5exhaust2.JPG

Shot at the belly with the exhaust gone.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5exhaust3.JPG

Another angle

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5belly1.JPG

Here's the fuel line disconnected and plugged

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5fuelline.JPG

Got the engine support bar and test fitted it. I wish it was longer so that it would rest on the fenders instead of the valleys. There's not really enough room to fit the engine balance bar in there the way it is now.

I'll play with it some more once I get all the wires pulled off the top of the engine.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5enginesupportbar.JPG

Updated parts list. I think I have all the part numbers now except for misc O-rings and replacement bolts.

• Timing Chain Guides: Deflection Rail 11311741777, Guide Rail 11311745406, Chain Tensioner Rail 11311741236, Chain Tensioner Rod 11317531813, O-ring 11421713597
• Upper timing case cover gaskets 11141741532, 11141741533
• Upper timing case gasket ring 11141736758
• Upper timing case O-rings 12141748398
• Lower timing case cover gasket set 11141436978
• Lower timing case Dowels (2) 11121726242
• Vanos Seals Beisan Systems M62TU kit
• Intake Manifold Gasket (4) 11611433328
• Front Manifold Gasket (Intake to Manifold) 11611729727
• Rear Manifold Gasket (CCV to Manifold) 11611729728
• Rear Coolant manifold gasket (2) 11531731833
• Water Pump Rear Pipe O-rings 11531710048, 11531710055
• Valley Pan Gasket 11141742042
• Oil Seperator 11151705237
• Oil Return Hose 11151438302
• Oil Return Hose 11157560068
• Vent hose 11157556837
• Vent hose 11157556838
• Check/Replace Engine Mounts (2) 22116770793
• Lubricate steering knuckle
• Clean drain tube

Very nice progress!

Stunt... if you lived closer to me I would stop by and lend you a hand!!

Awesome thread!! I hope the fixes go as smooth as the teardown :)

Thanks BigBlack! Keeping fingers crossed the tear down will continue to go smooth, and the replacement of parts!

Went ahead and priced the parts. Mostly from realoem, but also checked eBay vendors where there was a significant savings. Here are my findings thus far:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5parts.JPG

Not sure how much shipping is when all said and one, but in my experience, ordering from a BMW parts vendor - one stop shop with shipping, always seemed the most least expensive instead of piecemealing from multiple sources.

I don't recommend buying parts on ebay because there are so many good non-ebay vendors who sell genuine parts.

You're in VA, why not trying to order from an online BMW parts store? Tischer BMW (www.getbmwparts.com) is in Maryland, you could try them, I've ordered from them before and they have great CS.

I have had GREAT success ordering from www.thebmwpartstore.com, a dealership in Ohio. For pricing they tend to be a few bucks cheaper than Tischer, and fair shipping price too.

I have found BMW of Fairfax to be a bit cheaper when ordered online too and have better parts availability.

Stunt - If you need something and BMW Fairfax has it i'd have no issue picking it up and delivering it and turning some wrenches or if you prefer opening the beers :)

I have gotten most of my parts from Tischer. If you call they will help out on small parts that are less than shipping (I don't remember what but I got something that was 5 bucks & shipping was 12 and they sent it for 10 total)

Try Pelican or FCP, they have awesome prices and can be trusted, I think FCP is in Virginia.

:iagree:I was just going to say FCP. They have a chain rebuild kit already put together.
BMW Timing Chain Kit (M62TU) - OEM 11311741746KIT | FCP Euro

Or piece everything together through Pelican, ECS Tuning, or Bavarian Autosport. I reserve buying stuff from the dealer unless I need to get something last minute. For example, on your list you have two vent hoses, for $31 and $26. Same hoses on Pelican are $17 and $15.

Appreciate the other suggestions for where to order the parts. I put together this report showing the differences.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5parts3.JPG

Looks like getbmwparts comes in lowest and being they are also the closest to me, I think we have a winner!

I'll be sure to inspect the motor mounts to see if I really need those or not. They alone account for almost $200, or more than 25% of the entire order cost.

REALOEM is just a part # lookup site. They don't actually sell anything and the prices listed were the OEM prices at the time they obtained the data.
I'll have to remember to scope out getbmwparts more often.

Also have this site which I haven't tried yet.
Furiousmethod.com - BMW Parts Price Comparison

Picked up this external Torx socket set at lunch today for the transmission to bell housing bolts:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/torxsockets.JPG

I ended up going with this set ( I always try to go with impact sockets for everything )

Anytime Tools 11 pc FEMALE E-TORX (Star) SOCKET Set w/RAIL E4 - E20 - Amazon.com

has been worth every .01c :)

I have these from Snapon because of those pesky bolts at the top right of the transmission that are impossible to get at from straight on with my 3' extension.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/OBJEC...ges/FSE120.jpg
Not sure if they are worth $50/each for personal use, but they were worth it working at the dealership!

More pics PLZ)))

Yeah, those top bell housing bolts are going to be fun I'm sure. I do have a 3/8" universal, but maybe there won't be room to stick that on the end of the E12 torx socket. I'll find out soon enough I suppose.

Anyway, was able to spend a little time on the project again tonight. Relieved the pressure in the A/C system and then disconnected the high and low pressure lines from the compressor (which stays on the engine when removed).

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5aclines.JPG

Got all the wires disconnected from the top of the engine. I had almost forgotten how much fun it was getting those fuel injector solenoid clips released.

There are 2 wires in the harness that runs down the front of the engine that have to be disconnected from below. One is for the oil temp sensor, and the other is for the starter solenoid. Those were fun getting snaked out.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5enginetopwires1.JPG

Closer look.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5enginetopwires2.JPG

The next step is to drop the transmission. Got my engine support bar situated and chains connected to the lift hooks. I believe I got enough tension on the chains to where I can remove the motor mount bolts now, which is the next step.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5enginechains1.JPG

Another angle

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5enginechains2.JPG

I recall doing this on a 4.6 not for the faint of heart .Good luck and you should powder coat you valve cover :thumbup

I have been having really good luck with bmwpartsupply.com - they are out of California which seems wacky but I have had several larger parts shipped for their standard $15 shipping fee and they have been significantly lower than my local stealer on every single part. Order status and shipping updates are timely and I have called them to fix a screw up I made - they were very accommodating.

Good Luck on this mammoth project you took on :thumbup:. Just curious what the wire running to the negative terminal is for?

Put the part# in Furiousmethod.com - BMW Parts Price Comparison to find best price

I am cheap and have spent too much time comparing. When all is said & done I found BMW Parts and Accessories at GetBMWparts.com is on average about 5 dollars cheaper.

Getbmw's valleypan gasket :

Part Number 11141742042 Part Name COVER+GASKET MSRP $84.44 Core $0.00 Save $16.89 Online Price $67.55

Wondering why you are using an engine support if you are removing the engine?
My guess is you are removing the transmission, then removing the subframe and then removing the engine from below?
I guess too late now, but wouldn't it be easier to remove the engine and transmission as one unit with a hoist out the front of the car?

theres a video on youtube, they pull the engine straight out the front with the tranny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfMKlTa7tjo

Interesting video pulling both engine and trans together!

I'm following the Bentley manual, and it states the tranny has to be removed before the engine can be pulled, which is why I got the engine support bar.

I might try pulling them together instead. I just about got the front clip off anyway.

I was able to get the right side motor mount top bolt off no problem, but the left (drive's side) is a pain to get to. I can get my hand on it from below, but can't get a wrench in there. Any tips?

Also, on the hood, I'm wondering if I can undo the clips and lay it against the windshield (with a towel in between of course). This way I don't have to worry about re-aligning later. I know there is also a service position, but I don't seem to be able to locate the special bracket that is needed.

No joke on the nice garage and lift comment.

I thought about doing this as well to replace all the gaskets on my engine. It would make life so much easier to replace them all with the engine out of the truck.

Unfortunately, I don't have a garage or lift like your's... so I have to contort my hands and arms in the engine bay when it warms up.

So I pretty much decided to remove the engine and transmission as a single unit. So I got the upper radiator support removed.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5frontclip1.JPG

Can you guess what website is pulled up on the computer screen in the background? :D

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5frontclip2.JPG

Only problem is that I'm not having much luck getting the power steering coolant lines to disconnect. I wonder if anyone local have the proper tool to release these clips? I used 2 pair of pliers to pull the release ring in, but I don't have any leverage to then pull the hose from the fitting.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5frontclip3.JPG

The fuel line uses the same fitting, but is smaller and I lucked out and was able to release it using the same method.

EDIT. Looks like this is what I need. (Image from bav auto web site)

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/bavautopslinetool.JPG

I also ordered this last night:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330606867879...S:3160&vxp=mtr

those fittings can be PITA sometimes. you should be able to remove them by hand without tools though. It helps to push the hose further onto the fitting, then squeeze the clip, then pull the hose off. If you try pulling at the same time as squeezing it doesn't want to work. Pushing it on more is the key. Try not to use a bunch of force when pushing pulling the hose as that can just bang up the locking clip thing and make it worse. The special tool helps, you still need to push then pull though. Maybe give it a little twist as well?

Well that upper fitting didn't want to go. The plastic clip just came apart, maybe from me trying to force it off yesterday. I did push the hose in first, then push in the clip and then try to remove it. I think I must have messed up the little metal tabs inside.

The bottom one came off pretty easy. So I ended up cutting the upper one once the plastic clip had disintegrated. So that's another $40 to add to my parts list. At least the upper hose is the short one (vs. the $120 long lower one!) Will probably need to cut off the metal housing with a dremel tool in the hopes of being able to save the power steering cooler.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_1.JPG

Anyway, after that ordeal, the entire front of the engine is now exposed. Here are some shots at this oily mess of an engine.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_2.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_3.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_4.JPG

Looks like the water cooled alternator was replaced at some point. I suppose that is good news, maybe? I had to wipe off a layer of oil and dirt before even realizing there was a label on it at all.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_5.JPG

Removed the heat shields around the transmission

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_6.JPG

Next it was time to remove the front axles

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_7.JPG

I was surprised to find this spacer. Don't think I'll be putting it back on unless those are factory on the 4.6?

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_8.JPG

Pads and rotors are in real good shape. There was no groove at all on the rotors, so the pads slipped right off.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_9.JPG

Removing tie outer tie-rod. Tension strut came off using the same tool.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_10.JPG

For the control arm, I had to step up to a larger puller.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_11.JPG

Inner CV joint Looks to have been packed well when serviced last.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_12.JPG

I take it these clips are not reusable? Is there a special tool to be used to "crimp" them on when replacing them?

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_13.JPG

Driver side front axle removed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_14.JPG

Steering knuckle re-attached loosely. I'll need to put the front wheels back on to roll the truck back when it comes time to pull the engine.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_15.JPG

It doesn't look like the inner CV housing is going to clear the frame (the other side looks even worse). I wonder what it will take to remove those?

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3-1_16.JPG

That's all I got done today as I wasn't able to start until around 4pm due to other obligations, which I also have tomorrow unfortunately, but I hope to at least be able to pull out the other front axle tomorrow.

Oh, on the valve covers, I had them powder coated when I did the gaskets last year.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5valvecovers-1.jpg

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5valvecovers-2.jpg

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5valvecovers-3.jpg

I got a lot of observations but the first to my attention is that your inner cv joint has the wrong grease in it. It should be yellow runny looking tripod joint grease not the black moly grease you show. That's not an original inner joint or has had a new boot before

nice work!
 

Looks like a lot of fun! keep us posted on what you find!
oh, if i recall , doesnt the CV axle slip out of the front diff completely? it looks as though you have a part left behind! *the part that wont clear the frame*!!
subscribed :popcorn::thumbup:

Here's what the Bentley states about front axle removal. So yes, it looks like the outer housing of the inner CV joint should slip off the diff.

In my case, the axle piece slipped out of the housing effortlessly, there was nothing at all holding it back. Will be interesting to see if the other side is the same way. I know the previous owner did mentioned he had just had extensive front end work done at an indy shop. Maybe I should try to track down which one and get a complete service record.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/bentleyfrontaxle.JPG

I probably should have marked the relationship between the axle and inner joint before pulling it out.

I had fun r&ring my passenger side axle on my back in my garage. It comes out with a pry bar without much fuss, getting it back in all the way was harder. I ended up putting the hub assay back on it & using it for leverage. Took me 2 days to think of that.

Doesn't the engine/transmission/front axle just unbolt from the body, and drop as a unit?

That is how they go together, they call it the "marriage" when they slip it into the body.

Wouldn't that separation be easier than the disassembly you are doing?

4.6 does not come with spacers.

I added 18mm spacers to fill the wheels better and as part of aftermarket handling improvements I made. No issues because of the spacers. Did have to get it aligned. Depending on where you buy tires some stores will not touch a vehicle with spacers that are not bolted to the rotor (as pictured) and don't have longer lug bolts.

I might get some longer bolts and keep the spacers. It does give it a more aggressive stance. I ran them on my M5 (with longer bolts) and it was also lowered.

I suppose I could have dropped the front sub-frame, but I would still have had to separate the struts from the steering knuckles, or released the strut tops from the fenders, and I'm sure that would have been a lot of alignment issues to deal with.

Thanks for the tip on prying out the inner CV joint outer shell. Worked like a champ.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5innercv.JPG

I'll clean out all the old grease and repack with the correct stuff.

You are missing a bolt from your crank pulley, did you do that? Also, I was expecting to see 13mm hex bolts, not torx bolts there, but it seems that BMW may have changed bolt style around 2003, so those may be stock...
http://www.xoutpost.com/article/E53%...ankpulley1.jpg

Stunt,
No...those clips (bands) are not re-useable.....

In a word......yes........a special tool is required to crimp the new bands/clamps.

Autozone has a (low quality) tool in the less than $15.00 range....it may/may not work for you........this tool failed me.........so I opted for the Snap On (Blue Point) ± $43.00 version......found here....

Edit: Re: Boots
Given the extent of your project......new axle boots are/should be a given (new boots/grease/bands)



Best,
Charlie

I prefer to use screw down hose clamps wherever possible. Just need to be careful not to screw them down too tight.

screw down clamps in this diameter would have too wide of a band. You'd also be throwing your balance off by a few grams... ;)

I wish it was just missing. The head snapped off one of the bolts when I replaced the water pump. I plan to replace all 8 bolts while I have the engine out. Hopefully it will be easy to get that snapped bolt out of the vibration damper.

Thanks Charlie. I'll pick up the Blue Point tool and replacement bands, and thoroughly inspect the boots once I get them cleaned out. The PO did state they had just been replaced but maybe I'll just replace them all as you suggest for piece of mind.

Some are too wide but a usable width is easy to find. I have some. I see no need to worry about a few grams if in fact that is the case since a gram is only .035 of an ounce. If you are suggesting using a screw down clamp is a bozo-no-no I disagree. There have been many times I have had something leak that when I replaced the clamp type with the screw type the leak was fixed.

That said, If they are good enough for BMW I guess they should be good enough for me. And, it does take some judgment to not tighten them so much they cut into the rubber especially on older hoses. For me it's an aftermarket part that I feel is better than the original even if it isn't.

Once you get the crank pulley off it should be much easier to remove the broken bolt.

Here is the same tool at a different price point

30800 CV Boot Clamp Pliers

For Ear-Type Clamps.
For all ear-type clamps including GM FWD outboard CV joints. Designed for use with a torque wrench, as required for stainless steel bands.

Shipping Weight: 1 lb. 3 oz.
Package Dimensions: 5.75"w 10.5"h 1"d
Suggested Retail: $37.35
UPC Code: 083045308003
Harmonization Code: 8203200010

30800 Lisle CV Boot Clamp Pliers
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.6080...7&rs=1&pid=1.7
I have used this tool on the CV joint boot bands with great success.

Summit Racing has it at $23

Anyone ever seen a torque spec for the CV boots? maybe that's why the inner boots always leaked on the E46 Xi's, they weren't torqued properly? I guess it's nice to know you have that option with this wrench.

What torque spec do you need?

For the clamps on the CV boots you only need the proper tool which was just linked above, that is the way to crimp the new clamps properly.

The only torque spec on the axles I'm aware of is the 36mm 12 pt nut on the end of the joint when reattaching through the hub, and that spec is 310 ft lbs.

I was referring to the advertisement for the pliers that said they are torque wrench compatible. Sorry, getting distracted with the details. I've always just used angled cutters to pinch these clamps. As long as it isn't overtightened, the stupid boot is going to tear before the clamp ever wears through or starts leaking.

I our case, there is not one that I am aware of. The boots and other band clamps are pinched together at the square, then the top of the square is pushed down by one step process leveraging the RIGHT tool. The band when properly "pinched", sets all the necessary torque for the band to be in a "locked" state.
http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/14340_x600.jpg
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.6080...=300&h=300&p=0
http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachment.p...9&d=1196720553

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.6080...7&rs=1&pid=1.7
This is why they are a one time use item. Use once, Cut them and throw away each time.

Finding just the bands is a problem with the CV boots. I used BMW sourced boots and just replaced grease, boots and bands when I did my CV joint clean and boot replacement. That project took more set up and clean up time, than the repairs themselves.

The few times I used the crimp type instead of the screw type I have used pliers similar to the following rather than a special tool. Shop Kobalt 7-in End Cutting Pliers at Lowes.com

Good tool.

It is missing the anvil part for the pinch block head that stops the part from expanding upwards away from the band. It will however get the job done in a pinch. (Pardon the pun)

+1 on the end cutters. Again, the boot is going to tear at the bellows before it will start leaking at the clamp. Plus the end cutters come in handy for many other purposes.

Appreciate to suggestions on the boot bands and crimp tool. Getting the bands by themselves without the whole boot kit seems challenging as suggested. I might just get new boots while I'm at it. I'll give them a good inspection once I get to the phase of the project.

I first worked on the right front drive shaft. Turns out the axle nut on this side was a 6 point vs. the 12 point on the left side, so the 36mm socket did not fit it. I had to switch to a 3/4" drive 1 5/8" socket to get it off. I'll be replacing them both anyway, so no bid deal. Does make you wonder who's been working on this truck in the past...

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_8_01.JPG

My big challenge, and where I'm stuck with the right side axle, is how to get it all the way off the output flange. I got it this far with relative ease, but now there's a lot of resistance preventing me from getting it the rest of the way off. I've been using progressively larger leverage bars, but I'm starting to really put marks in the flange and inner cv joint housing.

Any suggestions?

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_8_02.JPG

So I decided to move on to the rear drive shaft. Fortunately, it popped off with no trouble. Hung it off to the side for now.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_8_03.JPG

Next up was the front drive shaft. Getting the flex-disc and centering flange free was easy.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_8_04.JPG

But even with the axle pulled as far back as it will go, the centering flange pilot shaft doesn't quite clear the input flange. Figured I'll just drop it when removing the transfer case. Oh, and I think I better replace the flex-disc. Look pretty cracked, especially in the flash photo below.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_8_05.JPG

Next up was removing the front sway bar. I thought this would be easy, but I'm hung up in several places as shown by the red arrows.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_8_06.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_8_07.JPG

Any suggestions on how to get the sway bar out appreciated. Bentley states to pull out out towards the left, but maybe I'll try the right instead?

I bought gkn loebro (oem manuf) boot kits for the axles which included bands grease boots and axle nuts (12 pt 36mm) from pelican parts for 13 bucks per side, same kit as genuine BMW but just in a GKN box.

Actually it's not hard, I found a store online back in 2011 that sells just the bands in various diameters. I'll post the link, it's saved on my other laptop, they're in Boston I think.

Wow, what a deal. That's what I'll do I think.

Had a productive day today!

I was determined to get that right side axle out come hell or high water. I ended up resorting to using the 10 lbs sledge and out she came. Now I know why it was being such a pain. Turns out the bearing was stuck to the axle shaft, so I ended up pulling it and the seal along with the axle to finally get it out.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_9_01.JPG

And here's the housing. At least I don't have to worry about getting the seal out as a separate step...

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_9_02.JPG

Next came what has probably been the easiest step about this whole project so far, removing the shift linkage.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_9_03.JPG

Time to drain the transfer case and transmission oils.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_9_04.JPG

The is the transmission fluid after only 800 miles since a complete drain and refill. It smelled burned as well. Guess the transmission is getting rebuilt once I get it out.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_9_05.JPG

Next up was removing the rear cross member.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_9_06.JPG

With that gone, and the transfer case separated a little from the back of the transmission, I was able to pull out the front drive shaft. It was stuck in there good.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_9_07.JPG

Back of transmission after dropping the tcase. Rear seal has a slight leak. With the rear of the transmission lowered slightly, I was finally able to pull out the front sway bar.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_9_08.JPG

Tcase and cross-member.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_9_09.JPG

Next I put the front suspension back together and brakes and wheels, so that I could take the truck off the lift and back it up to have room to pull the engine. I wasn't sure if the bearings in the knuckles rely on the axle shafts to keep the in place, so I used dolleys to minimize the stress on them.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_9_10.JPG

Finally it was time to hook up the engine lift and get ready to pull the engine. In this pic, the engine has cleared the motor mounts but I'm unable to pull it forward due to steering rack interference. Clearances are unbelievably tight...

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_9_11.JPG

That's it for this weekend. I'll need to study that youtube video some more where they pulled the engine and tranny out as as unit as I just don't see how there is room. I think I can get away with not removing the hood.

Hmm, maybe I will just drop everything from below after all as a wise forum member suggested near the start of this thread. :thumbup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DfXmfUE7c8

Quite the project, stunt!

Love the little Ford tractor. We have one on the family farm (older model, grey, not blue). I think it has some value as it isn't used at all now so I should try to sell it!

Since you have so much access now, I'd sure change the motor mounts (forgive me if they were in your parts list, I missed them).

Basically, on the race car (sold), when the motor came out, anything that touched the motor that was a wear item (made of other than metal), got replaced. Coolant hoses, fuel lines, belts, PS hoses, etc. Too much of a mental kick in the head if it fails right after you had easy access...

Yes, I love that little tractor Kirk! It's a Ford 1700 from 1982. Little 2 cylinder diesel. Only has 400 hours on it! Picked it up for a song at the local John Deere dealer (I have a larger John Deere tractor also).

So with the decision made to drop the engine/tranny from below, I reversed back to where I was before putting the wheels back on.

With the truck back on the lift, I loosened the steering shaft bolts at the locations indicated by the red arrows and used a small pry bar to spread the clamps.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_10_01.JPG

But even with those loose, I don't seem to be able to separate the shaft on either end. I really need to get the lower one off before I can drop the whole assembly. Here's a closeup of the lower end attached to the rack. Maybe I need to pry it off somehow? It sure is a mess with oil and hard to get too....

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_10_02.JPG

Anyway, I decided to move forward and placed my lifting table under the assembly. I used several 6x6 blocks to get everything supported.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_10_03.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_10_04.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_10_05.JPG

Satisfied that I had good support, I got up on a step ladder and removed the engine support bar. I then removed the 6 bolts holding engine sub-frame to the main frame. I was then able to easily lower the whole assembly a few inches.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_10_06.JPG

This is as far as I can go without the steering shaft hitting the frame. Once I figure out a way to get that shaft pulled out of the steering rack, it should drop right down!

If it's like the one I recently did on my E36, you need to pull the bolt out completely. There is a groove in the shaft the the bolt sits in. With it in there, you won't get it off. If you get the bolts out and still can't, then it's separation of the two halves and penetrating oil.

Check the joint when it's out too. Easy to replace now. A royal pita to replace later. Not cheap though :)

Aha, I bet that's it! Thanks!

With the steering shaft out, the engine dropped right out with no issues at all. That's definitely the way to go.

So here's the whole assembly pulled out from under the car.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_01.JPG

And various shots from different angles.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_02.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_03.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_04.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_05.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_06.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_07.JPG

Some close ups of the oil leak areas:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_08.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_09.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_10.JPG

Rear is actually quite leak free

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_11.JPG

Engine bay will be easy to clean up with everything gone

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_12.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_13.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_14.JPG

Transmission badge. Trying to decide if I should attempt the rebuilt myself or take it somewhere...

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_15.JPG

Oh, and the plastic surround on all 4 wheels came apart when I started rolling the table. I guess that is what sitting for 13 years will do to plastic like this.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_11_16.JPG

Wow!

Congrats!

nice!

The great news is the back side of the block and heads are dry of oil. Thanks for all the images as it shows the rear side with the CCV mounting bolts and all the connections perfectly. That alone will please a few owners looking to do a spring time clean and replacement of the system after this hard winter.

Thanks for the effort to keep this one up and running.:thumbup:

All downhill from here!

Damn nice work.

I am proud of my little garage, but damn. Nice shop. Good progress so far.

Damn nice work.

I am proud of my little garage, but damn. Nice shop. Good progress so far.

Very impressed!

Thanks for sharing the journey!
 

Wow :beerchug:

This guy has some serious balls...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WOW! and I thought changing my alternator bracket gasket was a big job, very impressive!!. :yourock:

:iagree:

qft all above posts!!!

Spent a little time pulling off hoses and such to get ready to degrease this thing.

Some of these pics are mostly for my own benefit during re-assembly. :D

Coolant line to the back of engine

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_13_01.JPG

low pressure oil line from oil filter

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_13_02.JPG

Next I covered all openings with baggies and rubber bands.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_13_03.JPG

Should I pull the coils before I spray this thing with degreaser and hose it down?

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_13_04.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_13_05.JPG

If it warms up some tomorrow, I plan to lift the engine/tranny from the sub-frame and steering rack and clean it up outside.

Anything else I should remove that doesn't take kindly to degrease and water? I figured I refrain from using the power washer on it, and I plan to dry it with compressed air once I'm done.

I'd pull the coils and cover the wiring harness ends.

For transmission parts, the California Transmission Supply company has a ton of parts and supplies. I used them when i did a fluid drain fill and was amazed at the parts they have on their website. Ctsc.com

Time for unto fire up the pressure washer and degreaser.

Just get a couple assorted economy paint brushes for 5 bucks from homedepot, a 96 cent spray bottle, and a gallon of simple green for 9 bucks. Spray, agitate with paint brushes, rinse clean and dry with compressed air.

Take your time it will look factory new

Stunt... You must be a professional camera man or something!! This thread is truly life changing!!

I wish you had the N62, so I could learn even more about my engine :)

I find it interesting that your M62 has the cyclone oil separator, just located in a different spot then the 3.0 version, and what on earth is the pipe that is going from the CCV to the transmission??

Thanks for the awesome thread stunt, we all look forward to video of your success!!

Thanks for the encouragements and kind words!

Made excellent progress this afternoon. After covering all the electrical connectors with balloons, it was time to get the engine outside.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_01.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_02.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_03.JPG

After the initial rinse off using engine degreaser

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_04.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_05.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_06.JPG

I then spent some time with Simple Green and a small brush to get the stuff in the nooks and crannies.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_07.JPG

After blowing it off real good with compressed air, I sat it back down on the lifting table on some 2x4s and began removing vacuum lines and such. In this next series of shots, I'm documenting where some of these go for future reference.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_08.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_09.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_10.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_11.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_12.JPG

Next I removed the A/C compressor, bracket and water pump

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_13.JPG

Another angle showing where the A/C compressor goes. I'll need to go back and hit some hidden spots here with the Simple Green again.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_14.JPG

Rear coolant cross pipe removed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_15.JPG

Intake manifold removed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_16.JPG

Top view

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_17.JPG

Rear view

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_18.JPG

CCV drain pipe is pretty clogged. I'll be removing it and blowing it out.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_19.JPG

So here's the engine/tranny on the lift table at this stage

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_20.JPG

Next I pulled the valve covers

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_21.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_22.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_23.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_24.JPG

View on table from the other side

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_25.JPG

Front view. Ready to remove the front covers

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_26.JPG

Finally a shot of the front sub frame and steering rack.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_14_27.JPG

That's it for today. Hopefully I'll get a chance to work on it some more tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks for the great pics.

Is that a Harman Kardon AVR I see?

Lol, good eye! That's actually my old Yamaha DSP A1 that was delegated to shop duties about 6 years ago when HDMI came out. It gave up the ghost this spring (display went dead), and I pulled an even older Yamaha A-720 integrated amp out of the closet to drive the shop stereo (pair of 20 year old klipsch forte speakers).

Ordered this last night:

BMW M60 M62 Camshaft Alignment Timing Tools Kit with FREE112250 | eBay

And the Beisan Systems M62TU Vanos Press tool along with their Vanos Seals Repair Kit.

Once I'm done, I figured I can sell both for close to what I paid, and will end up paying no more than if I had rented those tool to begin with. I'll hold on to them for a while though, in case something doesn't go right and I'll have to do it again.

WOW! Very educational. Nice photos. Thank you for taking the extra time to capture and post your project.

Amazing how similar units from that time looked, the feet look exactly like the ones on a 2000 or so AVR 530 I have in my garage with ancient B&O bookshelf speakers I have.



I'll take 'em!

My motor is running fine but I was planning on stocking up on the parts & tools for a similar operation hopefully faaaar in the future.

Whenever you are done with them, let me know please.

I just looked at the great pics again, It seems there is a missing/broken crank pulley bolt.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...psf2d26b02.jpg

Great thread and pics, engine looks much better! It's a shame that in the 21st Century, BMW can't make an engine that doesn't leak oil and power steering fluid all over your engine and driveway, simply inexcusable!!!

I don't think we need to gather the torches & pitchforks & attack the castle, it is a 12 year old vehicle with 135k & unknown maint. history, not a 2011 with 30k. Then it would be inexcusable

My '94 80 series Land Cruiser I maintained faithfully had small leaks here & there that were fixed as they happened (starting about 100k) so never got to this point and is close to perfect now at 250,xxx. All cars leak eventually.

His doing this now will likely mean it won't leak for 100k or more.

Here's a shot showing the CCV drain pipe.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_15_01.JPG

Removed from the engine. I blew out both pipes. It was not as bad as I thought. The debris I saw was only at the very top of the larger pipe.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_15_02.JPG

Main belt tensioner and alternator removed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_15_03.JPG

Crank pulley put back on get to TDC. I put the transmission in neutral and pulled the plugs before turning the crank.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_15_04.JPG

And this is how the cam lobes should point at TDC

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_15_05.JPG

Next up was removing the chain tensioner (19mm)

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_15_06.JPG

And the solenoid seals. I used a pick tool as seen laying in the valley in the shot below

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_15_07.JPG

Top covers removed

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_15_08.JPG

I then inspected the current chain guides, and they look to be in excellent condition

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_15_09.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_15_10.JPG

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_15_11.JPG

That's pretty much all I can do until my cam locking tool set gets here.

Tomorrow I'll see if I can clean the oil out of the valley and remove the cover. And also do some general cleaning of the newly exposed areas.

Cool. Will do e30.

Great & I really appreciate you documenting so nicely.

I've been lurking this thread for a while now, but I have to post and thank you for taking all the pics, and posting them. They're great for reference, every time I've done a project on one of my BMW's I say, I'll take tons of great pics, and I never do. lol

simply an outstanding thread, thx for all the details and great pics!

Btw....

Let me put out what I've gathered about the timing chain guides on these motors, and you tell me, or anyone else in the conversation tell me what they think.

From what I've read, the guides fail do to a weak tensioner. When the tensioner get week, the chains slap the guides and break them into pieces. Its not that the guides all the sudden fall apart.

So as long as you keep a good tensioner in the motor you shouldn't have to worry about the guides going bad.


Otherwise where you have this motor town down to, you'd be stupid not to replace them. Right?

I wouldn't say stupid, but you'll be hating life if one breaks in the near future.

But if its caused by a bad tensioner and you keep a good tensioner in it, why would it matter? Or is this theory wrong? If its right, even with brand new guides, they could still shatter/break with a bad tensioner.

Not trying to thread jack, just curious how the OP feels mainly.

Well, let me put it this way, I haven't ordered any parts yet. I wanted to wait until I have everything taken apart to determine what I need.

Interesting concept about the guides failing being a result of a bad tensioner. I will say I was surprised at how good the guides look. Once I get the lower timing cover off, I'll be able to inspect them more closely. But for piece of mind, I suspect I will end up replacing them.

+1 stunt on your efforts and thread here. Thank you for taking the time to share as your project goes. I am curious on which move you take with the TC guides too.

Junkycosmos
2005 4.8is @92k miles

I cleaned the valley sides this afternoon. What a pain that was using just towels, a pick tool, a little solvent and a shop vac. I didn't have the luxury of hosing down as I went being that the topside is now exposed and I was working indoors.

I was a bit surprised to find the valley full of coolant once I removed the cover, but I guess that was to be expected since I didn't remove the freeze plug in the block.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_16_01.JPG

The valley sides cleaned decently despite my challenges I think. It's not like you are going to see them once the intake is put back on, let alone to top cover. :D Btw, I'm running Evan's in case you were wondering about the brown color.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_16_02.JPG

After I drained the valley.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_16_03.JPG

And I got the one stripped bolt out of the crank.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_16_04.JPG

I did make an attempt at removing the "Jesus" bolt using my 3/4" impact wrench, but the crank started turning and I don't have my locking pin yet (part of the timing tool kit), so I didn't go any further. Based on the "feel" from using the impact, I suspect I'll end up using a 3/4 ratchet wrench and 10 lbs sledge to break it free. Fringe benefit of also working on my tractors is having 3/4" tools at my disposal when needed. :thumbup:

I highly recommend you use a crankshaft holding tool instead of just the timing wheel locking pin when removing/installing the "Jesus" bolt. It's high torque 310 +fp.

I had to use a 3/4" socket, breaker bar and a 4-foot steel pipe to break it loose like this guy on the video:
BMW 545i, N62, Crankshaft pulley bolt removal "Jesus bolt" - YouTube

Nice work on the valley pan.

I had a hell of a time getting the crank pulley off my Z. It required heat, a gigantic breaker bar and a heck ofalot of elbow grease.


Glad you got the broken bolt out!

No. Plastic ages while being heat cycled and gets brittle and will fall apart no matter what. Don't spread bad information.

Stunt. You're getting a new crank snout yes?

Excellent thread Stunt, since you've got the engine and tranny removed, why not swap in a Corvette LS engine, it'll be way more reliable and less maintenance intensive than anything BMW could come up with. Nothing like a good ole push rod V8, and it'll have more displacement and the aftermaket power add-ons are limitless, nothing much out there for a 4.6 engine.

I'm just surprised you didn't get tired of bashing BMW.Every chance you get you make it look like BMW is the mother of unreliability..seriously , it's eye tiring ...

Just to be clear, I'm referring to the flywheel lock pin that is inserted in a hole in the transmission bellhousing. It is a 1/2" pin or something like that, so I would think it will provide plenty of holding power.

Here's a pic from another DIY thread on bimmerboard

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/flywheelpin.JPG

If you took the time and energy you've spent pissing and moaning on the forums about your 200,000 mile old timing chain guides breaking and fixed your damn truck, you'd have fixed your damn truck. Go fix your damn truck.

edit: Sorry to interrupt stunt

Congrats and keep up the good work.

You have an excellent playground over there :D Take your time !

Crank snout? Are you referring to the crankshaft hub held on with the "Jesus" bolt that the balancer attaches to?

If so, what would be the reasoning behind replacing that piece?

Was trying to have a discussion, not spread bad information. If you would have quoted the whole post you can have re-read what I said instead of taking only part of what I said.

There are motors well over 200k miles with original guides, and there's 100k mile motors that need guides... I'd like to figure out what makes them last longer, or way longer. What's the issue with that?

Why is it that M62's are the only ones with timing chain guide issues? These motors are the ONLY ones. I've had M/S50 style engines of all variants and displacements, with all types of miles, and I've had super high mileage M60's that have never had a single issue. Even cars I've tracked, and have been run through the ringer... Not a single issue with a timing chain guide. If your theory was 100% correct we'd be tearing down 3.0 X5's, and every BMW engine produced to put timing chain guides in. I'm trying to look at the issue deeper than saying... ohh, its plastic and it broke, there is more to it.

We know its a bad design, but what makes those 200k plus mile motors keep going on original guides to this day... Is it that they replaced the tensioner every 80k miles? Is it their oil type, and service intervals?

I've had my fair share of BMW's, and plan to continue to enjoy them, but it would be nice to figure out some type of plan that would keep from having to tear the guides out every other time the car is ready for an Inspection II.


Stunt- I've used the flywheel locking tool to remove the crank bolt a few times, works well in the car. I made my own tool to bolt to the crank when I've had a motor on a stand, but I don't have a flywheel on the motor while its on the stand either. I wouldn't suggest a sledge though, using a breaker bar, and the handle off of a floor jack has always worked well for me. The constant steady force will be easier on things that jolts of energy.

Badass tractor btw :thumbup:

Yes.



If the threads are chewed up. It happens sometimes.


Different owners driving distances per heat cycle. Different ages. Different environments. I think it's great that you haven't experienced the failure on other motors. In my experience, almost all of the M62 cars that get guides repaired, the tensioner is just fine. Can a bad tensioner wreck stuff? Absolutely. But it's not a prerequisite to guide failure.

There is a time and place for everything----congratulations are due! You have made a historic discovery finding there actually is an exception to the rule.

stunt:

Excellent thread and documentation. Really enjoying it.

With your use of Evans waterless coolant, are you running higher engine temperatures?

Side note, but every time I see the shots of the lift chains wrapped over the pallet forks without a tie chain back to the headache rack I think of it all slipping off the end of the pallet forks. Be safe.

Got damn Stunt I am so jealous of your playground, it isn't even funny. Even though I have an N62, it is threads like this that seem to distract me.

Keep at it, you are doing a good job.

Are you replacing the guides? I would, you went this far, it would be a sin not to do them.

A few tools/parts showed up today. Amazingly, the stuff I ordered online Saturday night from Beisan Systems was delivered by the mailman along with my ODBC cable and software from Romania. I'll probably need a helping hand when the times come to use it.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_17_01.JPG

Speaking of tools, I decided to pick up a 1/4" drive torque wrench since my current ones (3/8" and 1/2" drive) don't go down to the values needed for putting a lot of the covers back on the 4.6.

I like Snap On and have been using these for the last 10 years.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_17_03.JPG

The 3/8" has a usable range of 20 to 100 lb/ft and the 1/2" from 100 to 250 lb/ft. Neither has ever been calibrated, but then I have never dropped them or abused them, so I suspect they are still pretty close.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_17_04.JPG

Looking at Snap On's current offerings in 1/4", they have a 10 to 50 in/lb and a 40 to 200 in/lb in the click type, and a 24 to 240 in/lb in their TECHWRENCH digital series. I found a brand new one of those on eBay for almost half price, so I went with that.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_17_02.JPG

I worked a little on the gasket surfaces this afternoon. Man those old upper timing cover gaskets are so hard and brittle that they break off in chunks. I'll do a similar test on the timing chain guides, but I agree with the consensus here that I should just go ahead and replace them all.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_17_05.JPG

I try to keep all the pieces neatly organized for re-assembly. Whenever possible, I put the fasteners back where they were prior to removing something, and in cases where that is not possible, I arrange them so that I can easily tell where they go.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_17_06.JPG

Finally, we had quite a but of snow last night, so here's an external shot of the shop since you guys have only seen the inside up until now. Oh, and that's the old cracked radiator you see leaning against the wall next to the rear door. :D

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_17_07.JPG

RomeoCK10.....no one wants to put American garbage in place of a BMW motor. I'm seriously so sick of you trolling these threads. Go over to the Toyota forums where you belong.

Thanks!

No temps are the same as before. I switched since my original radiator cracked, I figured switching to a coolant the expanded less would be a good thing. Heard good things about Evans, so I figured I'd give it a shot. After what I'm doing now, I'm pretty sure there will be no water contaminant left. :)

I hear you. Fortunately my loader is self leveling and I made sure to not have much of a down angle. But you're right, I should have used a tie chain to be 100% safe.

Stunt -- glad to hear you are replacing the guides. I mean, you are essentially going to have a new engine (minus some cylinder wear and wear on the bearings...) and I'm just gun-shy with aging plastics on engines.

But then again, I excel at spending other people's money.

Probably should put in a custom audio system while you're in there... :-)

What a beautiful piece of property! Color me jealous...

"You shall not covet your neighbor’s house":)

Lol, already did that.

Zapco DC-501 and DC-656 amps:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5radio14.jpg

Installed:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/zapcowired1.jpg

Tuning:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5radio21.jpg

Running wires

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/ar3wires3.jpg

AppRadio 3

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5radio3.jpg

Impressive Stereo install!

Very nice system. I have the APPRADIO3, love it.

Hey Stunt :

Do you have any floornoise, or any noise at all ?
I have a Alpine F1 ....and I gave up with the floornoise.

Love the auto porn. Great job.

I do. The only thing about the AR3 i don't really like is that the pre-amp outs are only 2V. I wish they were more so that I could reduce the gain on the amps some.

Right now my AR3 ground is only through the OEM harness connector. I'm going to do a dedicated ground to the frame to see if that helps. Depending on the outcome of that, I'll probably get some in-line amps to boost the level at the HU before transmitting to the amps. Might also try some shielding where the audio cables cross the 12V cable from the battery.

But before all that, I need to get the drive train back in the truck! lol

My parts list has grown quite a bit based on what I have found so far from the tear down:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5engineparts3-18.JPG

Fortunately most of the added parts are pretty inexpensive. I'm leaving the motor mounts off the total for now.

Stunt... amazon / google shopping is your friend! I bet some of the prices can be cut in half with a little internet " bargain shopping"

Yeah, let us know what your actual prices are, $180 for the waterpump sounds like a dealer price. with your mileage, if you are doing the front flexdisc/guibo, I'd do the rear driveshaft center bearing and guibo also. Some people do the rear driveshaft CV joint as well.

162.74 for the WP:

BMW Parts - MYBIMMERPARTS.COM

$111 on Pelican. $113 Bavauto.

But are they genuine BMW?

I'd rather spend a bit more & get the real deal.

Also, Turner Motorsport for $119. Pelican is the only one who says what manufacture the part is, choices of Saleri or Graf, both of whom are OEM suppliers for BMW. The Saleri has a composite impeller which supposedly is what the current BMW pump is, Graf is metal.

To me, the waterpump is and always will be a maintenance item, around 100k on the V8's and around 60k on the 3.0's. Having bought waterpumps from the dealer and from 3rd party, they all last around the same mileage. Also, keep in mind that it was the famous BMW plastic impellers on the M50/M52's that had the lovely habit of breaking apart and overheating engines. Genuine BMW doesn't always mean its the best. Just means its the most expensive.

If it has the OE part # on it... it's original

spending a bit more means you just have too much $$$ to burn

Saving a few bucks & having your 10k motor blow up means you were penny wise & pound foolish.


As far as plastic impellers (A) different motor & (B) issue has been rectified.

Problem corrected by the new style composite impellers, as found on the Saleri pump.

I've never seen a waterpump catastrophically fail to where it could cause engine damage except on the E36's; plastic impellers AND 1 metal impeller with a bearing failure that caused the metal impeller to impart significant damage to the pump chamber in the head. On the V8, and most other pumps, the pump will start leaking coolant as the first sign its on its way out. Then it will start making noise. It should be replaced before it starts making noise.

Luckily I'm not his neighbor, and I'm just jealous of the prpoerty! :rofl:



Stunt, want to get rid of your old radio? The X5 I picked up has some aftermarket TV thing in there that doesn't work well.

Harder and harder not to be jelly... Speakers? (better be a good front sound stage with some nice Hybrid Audio Technology Legatia's -- or Morels in there or you're doing it wrong :nanana:). Very clean install. How short is your ground wire run from the amps to the chassis? Might shorten that up to help with ground loop issues. I'd run the power cable from the amps to the right instead of the left like you have it. Avoid power and speaker cables being near each other if at all possible. Ground could go to the lug on the left of the spare tire well with an M10? (whatever a 13mm hex head bolt translates to). BTDT.

Re: your parts list. Replace any rubber fuel lines that run to the engine compartment (are there any? :dunno:). Having just replaced the engine mounts on my wife's E46M3, I wouldn't want to do that again anytime soon so I'd replace yours while you are in there if I were you.

So here's my experience replacing my original (I think) water pump 50 miles before I put the truck on the lift to drop the engine.

Here's the OEM on the left and the "OEM Quality" one on the right. Notice the 2 red lines and how they don't line up between the OEM and the non OEM one?

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_19_01.JPG

Here's the distance from the flange to the start of the groove:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_19_02.JPG

Same distance transferred to the non OEM pump

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_19_03.JPG

Of course I did not discover this until after the pump had been fully installed, so I had to modify my brand new upper radiator hose like this to make it lock in place

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_19_04.JPG

It held up fine for the 50 miles I drove it with no leaks, but I knew I had to do something about it.

So watch out for this brand of "OEM quality" pump.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_19_05.JPG

But wait, there's more. Here's the "OEM quality" thermostat that I got (on right)

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_19_06.JPG

Well, it allowed coolant to pass through it at all times, so the engine never got to operating temp. Here's the vendor of this one.

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_19_07.JPG

Between that and the continuously worsening oil leaks, that is what finally broke the camel's back to so speak and I made the decision to take everything apart.

So based on those experiences, I'm paying the few extra bucks (or a lot in the case of the water pump) to get the real deal.

So my timing kit tool set showed up today:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_19_08.JPG

Got the tensioner in place:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_19_09.JPG

I inserted the flywheel locating pin and chained to the lift to keep the engine from falling off the table

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_19_10.JPG

But alas, on the first whack with the small 3 lbs hammer, the locating pin snapped. I know you guys warned me about this... :(

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_19_11.JPG

So I ordered this tool from Pelican along with the CV boot kits and the front drive shaft flex disc (which they had for $76.25 vs. the $116.60 from getbmwparts).

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5_3_19_12.JPG

So back to waiting on tools again. I suppose I'll also order another locating pin, but that little guy is pricey by itself at over $30.

So one step forward and two steps backwards.

Stunt,

2 things.

OE is original equipment. As in the stuff that BMW uses to assemble your car. OEM, is original equipment manufacturer. The two are not the same quality of parts. What you have there with the pump and thermostat, is total aftermarket.

Now, with that off my chest lol, The good stuff.

Email this guy, tell him you are from Xoutpost X5 club. You will get some really nice pricing on OE parts. That list you have there will be significantly chopped. Trust me.

Craig Hacker
Fixed Operations Director
Open Road BMW
732-839-4548
[email protected]

Lots of us have purchased from him. And really no one else can match the prices. Try it, you don't have to buy to get a quote from a BMW dealer.

Thanks for the contact info and schooling on OE vs. OEM and the junk I got the first time around. :thumbup:

I'll contact Craig soon.

Sure. Mine had the Business CD w/ DSP amp and factory sub. Some of the LEDs are not working on the HU, but otherwise everything is in working order.

Thanks. I'll be sure to inspect the rear driveshaft components. I suspect they are in the same condition as the front ones.

I haven't decided on speakers yet, but yes, it will be a 3-way active front sound stage. Nothing will be going to the rear door speakers. Also haven't made up my mind on what sub/enclosure to go with yet. That all took a back seat, so to speak, to the engine/transmission issues. I probably should have concentrated on those first.

As for power and ground, here's the 4GA sections:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5radio15.jpg

And the 00 sections:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5radio16.jpg

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/x5radio19.jpg

I did this to have enough slack to be able to pull the "amp sandwich" and rest it on the tailgate when I needed to disconnect the battery.

I'll be sure to look them over once I get them cleaned up. But yeah, now would definitely be the time to do them.

I'd be interested in the sub, I need it to send to a friend to make an enclosure. And don't want to lose mine. What do you want for it?

Stunt -

Use the link above for BMW direct but I might as well ask.
Where are you buying your stuff from.

I ask because any reputable OE Equivalent would have been something like Graf or Saleri.
ALL of them, including the OEM from BMW are REMAN units. The thermostat would have been a Behr.

I would not lump it all that non OEM is junk. I think where you are sourcing the parts may be the issue...

I'm not sure yet if I'll end up modding my current enclosure to fit a single 10", or go some other route. Either way, I'm not selling it yet as it is part of the current system until I decide what do to. I'll let you know if/when it becomes available.

I'm pretty sure that's the issue. I sourced the water pump and thermostat from eBay. I think I paid $80 for the water pump and $55 for the thermostat. Lesson learned. Both eBay vendors had good ratings, but I guess that can be very subjective. Thermostat guy did give me a full store credit, but I doubt I'll use it. Water pump vendor offered a full refund, but I didn't have the time to pull it have him receive with within the 10 days allowed.

Like I said, lesson learned. Should have done some more research here on this forum before ordering those items.

Tons of reputable OE sits. Pelicanparts, AutoHausAz, RME, etc.

Hell, even the part # for the water pump from the dealer, is a Refurbished Core unit....

Good luck. For hoses, gaskets, etc - Dealer. Getbmwparts.com
For the rest, cheaper options on the OE sites . SOMETIMES even better IMO when looking at suspension options...(more bushing selection)

Tons of reputable OE sits. Pelicanparts, AutoHausAz, RME, etc.

Hell, even the part # for the water pump from the dealer, is a Refurbished Core unit....

Good luck. For hoses, gaskets, etc - Dealer. Getbmwparts.com
For the rest, cheaper options on the OE sites . SOMETIMES even better IMO when looking at suspension options...(more bushing selection)

Good info on the aftermarket parts, Stunt.

I get mine (mostly) from FCPEuro.com So far so good.

As for your sub project (assuming you ever want to touch the X5 again after this massive project), I had surprisingly good results dropping in ever so slightly modified (trim the mounting rings a bit) a pair of JL 6" subs. They go down pretty low -- low enough to feel the bass on London Grammar's "Hey now". Pretty musical too, picking up the low end that the HAT Imagine's leave off in the front. Not the best, but nothing to sneeze at either. Minimal modification to the stock housing.

I'm assuming you no longer have the amp that is looking for a 2ohm load? I imagine replacing 2ohm speakers with 4ohm would significantly affect the sound output.

ebay is only good for finding hard to locate USED items, not new.

Okidoke, add it to the tools for whenever list please.

If you run a dual voice coil 10" you should be fine... but the trick is going to be finding a 10" sub that will work with the power output of the am in relation to the volume of the box ;)

keep up posted stunt! I've been thinking of trying the same thing in mine since I bought the truck...

This is the sub I was looking at:

http://www.jlaudio.com/10w3v3-2-car-...-drivers-92150

Rated for 500W (same as my amp) and the optimal sealed enclose size is 0.625 cu. ft, which I think is very close to the volume of the factory unit, especially modded for a single 10" hole via a piece of MDF wood.