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-   -   P0300, P0302, P0304, P0306, Engine running rough with little power (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e70-forum/102321-p0300-p0302-p0304-p0306-engine-running-rough-little-power.html)

X5Cat 11-28-2015 03:01 PM

And why no evap system pressures?

What exactly is PID, and how do I go about capturing the "right one"?

Please & thanks, again!

jfoj 11-28-2015 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5Cat (Post 1059989)

Now your catching on.

I may not be able to look closer at this data until later this evening, but see if you can set up a MAF gauge on the Dashboard and then start wiggling, pushing and pulling on the MAF wiring to see if you can get a MAF signal to ever pop up.

MAF reading at idle should be around 4-4.5 g/s.

jfoj 11-28-2015 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5Cat (Post 1059991)
And why no evap system pressures?

What exactly is PID, and how do I go about capturing the "right one"?

Please & thanks, again!

Evap pressure may not be a standard PID that is supported?

You need to look at the Log set up and select every PID that has a real value, but it does look like you have the correct MAF choice, I think there is no MAF reading as mentioned earlier, most likely an electrical problem or bad connection, possibly blown fuse?

Need to focus on the lack of a MAF reading first.

jfoj 11-28-2015 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5Cat (Post 1059985)
If you notice the engine temp high in the beginning (213, 217 range), I sat with the vehicle idling for a while, while the iPhone had trouble connecting with the WiFi. After I finally got it to connect and got moving it cooled down. Does bother me that it was idling that hot, though, and in a mild ambient temperature (about 70 degrees). Maybe it is related to the way the engine is running.

I am not sure what the "baseline" or nominal N52 engine temperature should be. I do not have any solid info on these yet. I think I have one other Log from that I can look at.

I am a bit concerned that the "cruse" temp is 175F/79C. This in my gut seems too low, but I would need a sampling of these engines to know for sure.

The 213/217F range does not seem bad, but you may have a soft thermostat on your vehicle. The typical operating temperature for most modern vehicles is 205F/96C. A soft thermostat can and will be low by 30F/17C.

I may need some other members to chime in here with their "nominal" or "baseline" engine temperatures.

Driving a vehicle with the engine running too cold will carbon up the engine and exhaust, you will find the exhaust tips very carboned up and often will appear wet or oily and in worse case situations the rear tailgate/bumper/license plate may have small/fine particles or soot balls on them.

One Log I looked at seems to have the engine operating around 212/100C.

I would strongly consider your thermostat as a soft failure.

Any other 3.0l N52 owners that can chime in with what their engine temperature is when cruising. Once the ambient temp drops below 70F a soft thermostat will be VERY obvious.

X5Cat 11-28-2015 04:34 PM

Thanks, have a football game starting here, so it will be later for me too....

X5Cat 11-29-2015 10:16 AM

From obd-data.com:

P116E OBD Code Definition:
Fuel Pressure Relief Valve Activated

From a couple of bimmer forums I also found:

P116E = Air Mass Flow Sensor Signal Electrical
P116E = fuel air meter in

Those last two would seem to give some credence to the MAF concern. Will see if I can get that MAF going on the dashboard.

jfoj 11-29-2015 11:35 AM

The typical OBDII DTC or trouble code is a single Letter followed by 4 numbers. Example PXXXX where X is a number between 0-9.

The few times I have seen DTC's or Trouble Codes with a 2nd letter the letter seems to be in the last character position and tends to appear to be a Hex value A-F. I have seen this before mainly on some BMW's. Unclear if this is the way BMW has presented the value or if this is a Manufacturer Proprietary code that comes through as a generic code but in the wrong format??

Anyway the majority of these codes I have run into on BMW have to do with the MAF. It is pretty obvious that the MAF on your vehicle is not responding.

I do not know the N52 like I know the M54 engine. However, I assume the MAF on your vehicle is a typical modern MAF that has both the IAT (Intake Air Temperature) sensor and MAF all integrated into one assembly. Most of this design MAF has 5 wires or connections, sometimes the actual connector may have 6 cavities, but only 5 connection are used.

I do not have the connections committed to memory and your engine may be different. I recall there is a 12 Volt switched feed and the other 4 connections make their way back to the DME.

You need to check for loose female terminals, power, broken wiring or continuity back to the DME connectors.

The MAF could just be bad a well, but this is an expensive test to rule out other problems.

You could try to source a used MAF on Ebay for cheap and hope it will allow you to determine if your MAF is actually bad or if you have a wiring problem. I would not buy a "new" cheap ebay MAF as most of these are Asian counterfeit units that do not work correctly. You will end up replacing any cheap ebay or parts store MAF with an OE supplier from a valid and known good parts vendor.

pshovest 11-29-2015 12:23 PM

Move coils 2,4,6 to cylinders 1,3,5. Do codes move?
Unplug MAF and start. Is performance any different?

X5Cat 11-29-2015 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pshovest (Post 1060071)
Unplug MAF and start. Is performance any different?

Good, beautifully simple suggestion -- I'll do that, thanks.

jfoj 11-29-2015 01:33 PM

Do not expect miracles on this one, but you may find the MAF starts to report after unplugging and reconnecting, bad connection or broken wire.

But a this point the MAF is effectively disconnected because there are no MAF readings being picked up by the DME.

Also note the Freeze Frame data had Misfires for Cyl #4 & #6. These just so happen to be the 2 spark plugs that are not all carboned up. #4 & #6 appear Lean??

Rarely do ignition coils act up on cold start or idle, but they could. I would also think if #4 & #6 coil were having problems these plugs would appear to be a bit wet with fuel.

The STFT for Bank #1, Cylinder 1-3 is way Negative, trying to remove fuel due to a Rich condition which I agree with due to the spark plugs and the lack of a MAF reading.

The STFT for Bank #2, Cylinder 4-6 is way Positive, it is actually Maxed out at +30% at highway speeds. This tells me there is a Lean condition for Bank#2 which the spark plugs and STFT seems to agree with.

I am thinking you have some sort of crankcase air leak or a problem with a CCV hose as a guess??

I think it is time to think about Smoke testing for air leaks in the crankcase and/or intake path.

In case I did not link this previously, here is a simple Smoke Test below. The fluid transfer pump is about $10 and most Auto Parts stores and maybe even Walmart may carry it.

I am starting to think you have 3 very distinct problems.

1. Engine running too cool, probably a soft thermostat. I really do not think these engines are supposed to run a 175F/79C on the highway. I expect 205F/96C range, maybe just slightly higher. This may be due to no MAF signal and the DME commanding the thermostat heater on? You may try unplugging the thermostat heater connection and see what happens to the temperature. If it operates in the range I expect it to, then the thermostat is not actually bad but something may be commanding the thermostat heater on. This also assumes this engine has the electrically controlled thermostat which I believe it has.

2. No MAF reading. Not sure what to guess at here. Bad MAF or bad connections. But check fuses first.

3. Some sort of vacuum leak that is not in the main intake path, probably CCV or crackcase would be my first guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsgB9eBl58I


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