Engine Malfunction #2 Cause Found?
 

Started my 35d today with 39 miles until empty showing on the onboard (gas station was closed last night) at 10:30 when I left work.

Started down a steep 10% hill, and all of the sudden "Engine Malfunction, Reduced Power" warning comes on.

This is the second time this has happened. However, the last time it happened I had a FULL TANK of Diesel fuel.

However, when it happened last, it was after parking it on a 10% hill, for about 30-mins., then coming out and starting it.

To me, this appears to be a fuel pump issue. I have 4,000 miles on my 35d and live in the Bay Area where 10% hills are commonplace.

There does not appear to be any type of failure with the fuel pump, as it should either work or not work, in my opinion. But, it appears that the manner by which the fuel pump is placed is not adequate to siphon fuel under certain circumstances.

Or, there's a true issue with the pump, but it's remarkably odd and I'm 100% it's confined to the fuel pump.

I understand it taking place with a near empty tank, but with a full tank?

Luckily, I limped to the gas station, at about 3 miles per hour (literally), filled it with 20-gallons and was on my way with no further issue. I was entirely confident the vehicle would start fine with fuel.

So what's the deal? There were 2.5 gallons of fuel left, but does anyone know I'm guessing there's a gallon tied up in the fuel delivery system at any given time, which would have left 1.5 gallons left.

Still, that's quite a bit and a 10% hill is just not that uncommon, in many parts of the world.

Any thoughts? Similar circumstances on hills, etc.? Has this taken place with anyone on a flat surface with a full tank of fuel?

I've had mine for over a year and never had this happen. I have never run my tank down that low. You said it happeneed with a full tank one other time... Does the dealer have any idea what causing this problem? Glad you were able to limp to a service station and not stranded...

Craig

This post makes me want to ask a question relating to running low on fuel. As a former owner of a GMC Duramax diesel, the owner's manual advised against running low on fuel as the fuel is used as a cooling medium for the pump as it is returned back to the tank. Does anyone know if the 35d engine fuel system design would be subject to the same caveat?

"as it is returned to the tank"?

I don't understand that, what do you mean?.

Diesel fuel and gas are petroleum products and they act as lubricants for the fuel pump and/or sending unit, not sure that they cool the pump except for keeping them lubricated, and without lubrication they will "burn out".

There's reference to damage to the vehicle due to running the vehicle low on fuel, but it does not specify what type of fuel. I was of the understanding that most vehicles had done away with this method of fuel pump cooling, but maybe BMW still cools their fuel pump via the fuel itself.

The point is, it happened once when fully fueled, and once when the fuel was low. The only similarity is the fact that both "malfunction" messages took place on a hill of around 10%.

The dealer's been less than helpful, as has BMWNA. The first time it happened, I was stranded for 3-hrs., with BMW Road Side and BMW Concord going back and forth, arguing via an SOS three way call as to how to handle the situation. I was in complete shock at the moronic behavior that took place.

The second time (today), I was 300-feet from the gas station.

The dealer, when pushed, did say that they've been having some issues with the high-pressure fuel pump. Apparently there are two fuel pumps on the 35d? Can anyone confirm?

But, it's an electronic device. It should work or not work. The first time it happened was on Day 3 of ownership with 300-miles on it. So, 3700 trouble free miles later, it's taken place again.

Both issues, were fuel starvation issues of some sort. The point is, what's causing them?

The hills, the fuel pump? Air in the fuel tank from the fuel swashing around when it's on a hill?

The strange thing is, that the first time, when I was on a full tank, the vehicle continued with its malfunction even when I came off the hill and was on flat road. It eventually went away after starting and cutting the ignition over a period of 3-hrs.

Odd...but sounds like BMWNA knows something and they're not saying, from the dealer's response.

Electronic devices often experience intermittent failures. I once had an epoxy=potted voltage regulatory with intermittent failure that I could reproduce with a hair dryer, followed by an ice cube to temporarily restore function.

You probably just have a bad fuel pump which BMW will not replace until it experiences total failure.

I agee with Penguin. In reference to Thunder 22's query.... go to DPChip pump info. All about diesel injection pumps, how they work, history and developments. where you will find reference to the following statement:

"Because of the extremely high fuel injection pressure, the fuel in the return line becomes very hot, and a fuel cooling system is used to cool the excess fuel before it is returned to the tank"

So if the total fuel capacity available is low, the bulk fuel temperature will rise in the tank evidently creating an issue that compromises fuel pump/distribution component life as far as a 6.6L Duramax goes.

This is not related to ABMW's issue I am sure, it just prompted my question to those in the know if BMW's are susceptible to damage or compromised fuel component life by running low on fuel as the 6.6L Duramax engine is.

Thanks for the link. Learned something new.

I got the same message with 340 miles on OM. The tank was full. I took it to the dealer. He could not find any default code. I never got the message again (it is about 6 weeks now).

Hmm,

Not good. There's no error codes or faults that show. It's so random, only happening twice in the span of 3,600 miles that it's going to be impossible to film via video, etc.

I think you guys are right about BMW not fixing it, until total failure. This time it was not a big deal, in actuality I was only a few feet from the gas station. Not that I believe it to be related to the fuel level being low. The analog fuel gauge was half way between empty and 1/4th of tank. The vehicle was calculating the miles to empty based upon my miles per gallon average. The preceding tech info was probably obvious to all who have posted, so just FYI.

But, the first time it happened I was in the middle of a 60 mph. intersection. The vehicle stalled, and bucked as if stalling from fuel starvation. It would stall for about 1 second, then recover partial power, then stall, etc.

Along with the stalling, I lost power steering, and brakes. Not a big deal, save for the fact that I had to get out of the intersection. Had this happened, or if this happened in an intersection during the making of a left turn, with oncoming traffic proceeding at 50 mph. it would not have been a good situation.

I'm going to open up a report with the NHTSA, and try giving the dealer another shot.

I'm fully capable of handling an emergency, or at least quickly determining my options in such a hypothetical. Though, I truly can't say the same about my wife, who I drives the vehicle upon occasion.

I had a 1997 Jeep Wrangler that exhibited similar symptoms. It ended up being a faulty throttle position sensor, and it was an ongoing issue with that vehicle throughout my ownership duration. (For disclosure: I owned two 1997s. The other one was flawless to 215k miles, and was sold last year)

I'm not sure what's going on, but again BMW Concord, outside of San Francisco, when pressed did solicit that some 35ds were suffering from faulty fuel pumps.

The service manager said that with some vehicles it happens once, and then never again. With other vehicles they require a replacement fuel pump, but in all cases they need a fault code!!!!!!!!!!

To recap, at that time I pressed the SOS for road side assistance. They connected me with BMW Concord. BMW Concord claimed that BMW SOS could diagnose the vehicle remotely via some sort of so-called telemetry. They then sent me back to BMW SOS. BMW SOS then said "no, we can't do that." I was then sent back to BMW Concord, with a tech that insisted it could be done. This back and forth went on for about 3-hrs. with me on the side of the road (seriously). Granted it was December 22nd, right before Christmas, but still. Finally BMWNA demanded that BMW Concord's service manager be put on the line. They gave her an earful, during a three-way conversation.

By then, I attempted to start it one last time, just to make it home (about 8-miles away). It started fine, and there was no recurrence until today.

I called BMWNA a few weeks ago, to address this issue and multiple other issues going on that BMW Concord's been unable to remedy. She was shocked and promised me a call back that day, or first thing the next morning. 10-days later I received a call back from "her" (the customer relations woman from BMWNA) with a message that she was working to resolve the issue. I called her back with a very kind and polite message to call me back. No dice.

Tomorrow I'll be phoning her again. I truly love my 35d. It's the neatest vehicle I've owned in many years, from a mechanical standpoint, and it's "okay" in the handling department for what it is, to boot.

But, in this day in age, I don't want to have these types of issues popping up, with no fault codes to speak of, and no resolution from the dealer, or even any assistance.

I'm a very frustrated BMW owner at this point, and this issue is following on an entire punch list of issues. Everything from the passenger airbag, to issues with the rear hatch, to problems with the rear passenger door locking, and the voice activated function on the steering wheel selectively working on and off, are really starting to piss me off.

I have zero problem with vehicles having issues. Automobiles, Motorcycles, and Airplanes are my hobbies. I love to tinker with them. But, when the break, I expect them to be repaired, or a phone call to be returned, or at the very least some assistance from the guys in charge, in this case BMWNA.

I'm quite upset with my purchase thus far, which is very sad, considering how much potential this vehicle has. When it works, it works. But when it acts up, it's absurd the lengths I have to take to get the smallest of issues resolved. Reading the boards, it's obvious I'm not alone.

Where is the line drawn? I'm at the point of starting a lemon law return, and having the vehicle replaced with a new 35d. If that's not evidence that I love the vehicle, I don't know what is. I just want some freaking service!

BMWNA Wake the F_CK Up. It's not 1985. I expect my $70k vehicle to be more reliable than a Chrysler Seabring!

Letters going out to NHTSA, BMWNA's legal dept., and the selling dealership tomorrow. I guess in writing this, I've found my personal comfort zone. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for some of you to be driving around for 6 or 8 weeks with your check-engine light on. I've never read anything like this from any auto maker selling vehicles in the United States. I've owned Fords, GMs, Nissans, Toyotas, Kias, Hyundais, Mercedes, Jeeps/Chryslers, Suzukis, Hondas, Audis, VWs, and probably a few other brands I'm missing. NEVER, and I mean never, have I experienced such blatant customer disregard!

If it were not taking place to me, it would almost be comical, but right now I'm just pissed, and want to be able to open my rear hatch from the outside of the vehicle, don't want to worry about it stalling (even if it's only twice every 3,600 miles), and I want to be able to talk to my damn car and tell it what to do!

Who else am I going to talk to when I'm stuck on the side of the road for 3-hrs. with a dwindling cell phone battery, and BMWNA having a show down game of "who's the boss" at my expense?
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