I think we should blame the tire companies (who came up with the no-season/all-season concept) and years of consumer conditioning. I think it first started when radials became popular. Radials had much better traction than bias ply tires, and people believed that if you had radials, you didn't need winter tires. False assumption, but the fact that radials were much more expensive probably helped the myth along. Anyway, that is when I remember customers started saying that they were just going to run the same tires all season. Also, we didn't have traction aids then, other than Detroit Lockers and sandbags in the trunk; stability control, ABS, etc, were still to come along, so if you didn't have the right tires you were usually in the ditch pretty quickly. Those without proper tires had Darwin Award experiences, or close to it.

So now we have a generation of drivers who believe that winter tires are an optional extra, even in climates that get close to freezing. They even go to the mountains with summer tires ("but I am just going on the weekends for a ski trip.....") and think it is normal. And the computer traction aids just let them get further into trouble before they let go, and so we don't just get people sliding slowly off the crown of the road, instead we have major accidents with innappropriate tires as a cause.

What gets me are the number of people who don't think they need winter tires because they have AWD. We didn't put winter tires on our X3 last year, we just didn't drive it when conditions were bad. However, my 535 needed to commute to work every day. I have Dunlop Wintersport M3s, 17", on dedicated wheels. I made it up a very long and steep hill to home one night in a snowstorm, going around many stuck cars. Three of us made it to the top. One was a Dodge Power Wagon. One was a Jeep, some type of CJ or similar, with narrow tires. And my 535i with the MSport airdam, pushing snow. Great fun, but I did push a fog light out of the air dam when I broke through the plow windrow into my driveway. Good rubber and RWD trumps AWD, but not many believe it. And, you have the added benefit of being able to stop.

Anyway, I think changing society will be a slow process. Laws that require tires with the snowflake symbol for certain seasons are a good idea, IMO. I think Quebec has the right idea, and I expect those laws to spread across Canada. Not sure about the Northern US though, it may turn into a freedom issue.

Yes it is amazing how many AWD vehicles end up in ditches because people think they are invincible with their new SUVs.

I am in a quandry with my X5. Knowing that Charlotte might get 1-2 snows a year and 1-2 ice storms, I know I need better tires than the performance 19s I have. I don't really have an option to stay home and miss work on those days. Plus I'll be traveling to WV at times and don't want slightly bad weather to stop me. I am sure winters is what I should get. I would get "performance" winters since I don't need ultimate deep snow traction.

I want 20s but do I give up on that and just get winters on 18s or 19s or do I get winters for the 19s and get 20s with new summer performance tires next spring? My 19s would only have 4600 miles when they are switched out. :(

Thoughts?

You buy performance ice tires now, 19", on your current wheels. You put your summer performance tires away for six months.

Next April, you either buy 20" wheels with performance summer tires or, depending on finances, put your 19" summer tires back on for one more season. If you don't need them you sell them on Craigslist.

You should end up with 19" winters on your current wheels, and 20" summers on new wheels since that is what you want, and the only variable is the timing for each purchase. That would be my approach.

:iagree:

Best solution and probably cheapest way to break things up. Get the 19" winters now and then in the summer get a set of 20" 214 or 300M reps with some nice summer rubber. If you leased, keep the 19" summers for lease turn in. This gives you the best of all worlds. Safety, looks and performance.

X

Indeed.

I have the opportunity to drive up to the Tahoe basin twice a week in the winter and you'll see many city folk in trouble.

Cars have ALWAYS had '4 wheel brakes'...so getting a fancy new AWD just lets them into trouble with a higher initial velocity!

Sometimes it seems nothing ever changes. I worked at a small garage with a 4wd tow truck many years ago. We were just outside the city, so we had a steady stream of visitors that came up to prove they could go anywhere, and they often needed offroad recovery services. Their usual line was "But I have four wheel drive..." This was in the era of Broncos, K5 Blazers, lifted F250s, Scouts, and so on. My boss's standard line was that for many of those drivers, four wheel drive just got them a little bit further down a trail that they never should have been on in the first place. It was the offroad equivalent of getting into trouble with a higher initial velocity.

Weasel would have had a blast on those trails.

Same thing with all the HP in cars these days. Most cars were lucky to have 150-200 hp. Hard to get in trouble quickly with that. Now give them 350-400 hp and you can get in to trouble so much easier. Its only DSC or equivalent that saves the day (to a point).

OK. A set of Blizzak LM-25s are $1425 in the staggered 19's size. Pirelli Scorpion Ice are only $1135. I think Pirelli's it is... Neither are RFTs. Since I want the spare and mounting kit anyways, I've already got it on order from my dealer for $385.

Gee, I usually go a year with a new car before spending $1500 for tires but this is all for safety, and if I stay with 19s for summers, their life is extended.

What will happen after this is Charlotte will have its warmest winter in decades and it may not even snow in WV. But I'll be ready if it does. :)

Count your self lucky. For my 535i with MSport, which means performance summer tires, I bought OE 17" wheels and Dunlop Wintersport M3 SST tires. Mounted and balanced, but not installed, that was $3800, a month after I picked up the vehicle. Goes like a tank in the snow, though.

Imagine if we lived in Australia.

Last winter in VA was one of the worst ones but my 4.8 with 19" Mich all season performed very well. It literally plowed snow without a problem as I was trying to get to grocery store one day and those tires had less than 50% of life left on them. I have 20" with DWS now and I expect similar if not better result this winter with brand new tires and all.